Ask HN: How to deal with a hard to work with Start-up CEO?

[astartupemp]

The problem - Anger management, blames people for things when they go wrong. Unreasonable work expectations for product features and expectations that a person would be available anytime/any day weekends including to do work and support. Does not pay properly or on time. Does not communicate properly on what is happening at the high level. In short, someone for whom you will find it hard to work for even if you like the problem the company is trying to solve and doing your best for its success.

Potential solution - Quit. But this would burn a lot of fingers/relationships and put the company in a spot since I'm pretty sure most things will break if I leave. There are no processes in place for anything. I manage a lot of things and am overworked with little time for anything else.

Been a few years, the start-up still is in the product development phase and there have been good results for whatever has been in the market. Product market fit is yet to be achieved but I believe is possible if people continue working nicely. But with tensions running high, I wonder if that would work out.

[OliverJones]

It's hard, but important, to tease out the personality issues from the business issues in a situation like this. The personality stuff is a pain in the neck, but the business stuff is very serious in this case.

Anger management: definitely a personality issue. The guy is probably under a lot of pressure and doesn't know how to deal with it, so he lashes out. If you could continue to put up with it, you could probably stay and succeed.

Does not pay on time: definitely a business issue. This is a sign that this guy will have to be replaced if the company's product gets to market and succeeds. There's no way this guy will be able to manage a business growth phase, where meeting commitments to all stakeholders (customers, suppliers, employees, shareholders) is vital. If he has enough power to prevent his own replacement, this company is doomed. If he doesn't the company may be doomed anyway, because investor-appointed CEO quality is unpredictable.

Keep in mind what Gen. Charles de Gaulle said. "Graveyards are full of indispensible men." Your departure won't trash this company.

You've given it four good years. You've (hopefully) learned a lot. You've done what you can to make the company successful. If you have options on the usual plan, they have probably vested. You can, with honor, move on to your next opportunity.

You'll go through a period of mourning when you separate from these people. You probably know the phases: denial, negotiation, anger, sadness and finally acceptance. It's unpleasant but perfectly normal. Good luck.

[thrill]

You do not owe the "company" pain without gain. I just left a similar position with a CEO who exhibited similar attitudes about people management. I was the 4th hire into that position in as many years - I believed it was a technical and process issue they suffered under and took the position in spite of this knowledge. It's generally not - it's a management and attitude issue, and if the board cannot take the time to determine that, with supposedly far more access to the "big picture" than anyone else, then you should feel no guilt for removing yourself from the situation.

[wdewind]

To sum up:

-Your boss is emotionally aggressive, unreasonable and difficult to work with

-Basic functions of the company like payroll are not being handled properly

-The company is a few years old and has yet to achieve product market fit

-The company is a few years old and still in a position where one employee leaving will severely damage the standing of the company

One of these things, maybe, is possible to deal with (with the exception of the second one - missed payroll is completely unacceptable). All of them are absolutely not. This isn't even a question: you're wasting your time and it sounds like tolerating a lot of misery for no reason. Companies can't succeed like this.

[bjt]

> Does not pay properly or on time.

That means quit. If the CEO is willing to be that damaging to employees' personal lives, it will probably never be a nice place to work.

[codingdave]

I fully agree. You must be compensated. It does not have to be cash. Equity works, too. But he(?) needs to be sticking to whatever compensation agreement is in place. That is a deal-breaker.

Many of the other issues are going to be a case-by-case basis. Does he know he is being unreasonable? Can you call him on it, and will the behavior change? Does he apologize and correct himself when called on it, or does he defend his actions?

In some ways, there is an analogy between working with the CEO of a startup and a marriage. There will be problems. There will be bad times. The question is whether or not both sides are committed to the relationship, willing to hear the other's side, empathize with it, and make the changes necessary to improve it. In most cases, this is just a job, the answer will be "No" and you should quit.

[astartupemp]

Not open to negative feedback. Any conversation about this is going to blow up. Some people have tried and failed. Some have quit.

[justabystander]

I detailed a bit more in my other rant, but if you want to stay or get what you're owed, you're going to have to risk the conflict.

The only way to not have conflict about this is to leave and say nothing. If you think he won't allow you to leave at all without conflict, then you might as well choose the conflict with the better possible rewards.

You shouldn't let things continue. But whether or not you're going to attempt to point out the problem is up to you.

[powera]

If you're an employee (and not a contractor), there are generally a LOT of legal protections against employers that don't pay their employees on time.

[analog31]

Potential solution - Quit. But this would burn a lot of fingers/relationships and put the company in a spot since I'm pretty sure most things will break if I leave. There are no processes in place for anything. I manage a lot of things and am overworked with little time for anything else.

First of all, people tend to over-estimate the uniqueness of their knowledge / expertise. The company can recover from losing a key employee, if they have any chance at all of succeeding.

Second, your contributions may have emotional value to you, but no real economic value, if the CEO is an insurmountable obstacle to the success of the business. So you're not really depriving them of anything if you walk.

[julius]

Quit. No second chances, no trial periods to see if the person will change. I know it is hard, you have invested some good years already. But how many more years do you want to live like this?

If you do not want to burn the brigde, you can offer them to work for a fixed period of time (eg. 3 months) and with a lot less commitment (like 3-4 days a week) on making all the things ready for some replacement to take over.

[dantiberian]

> But this would burn a lot of fingers/relationships and put the company in a spot since I'm pretty sure most things will break if I leave.

I've seen friends in a similar situation say the same thing. It's important to remember that it's not your job to manage succession planning or handling disaster recovery (unless it is). You can warn them about issues and provide suggestions, but if they don't schedule that work for you or give you time to do it, then you're released from that obligation IMO.

[Kinnard]

Can you provide more information? Is the CEO technical? What is your job? How long have you been working at the company? How long have you known the CEO? Are you friends?

"Does not pay properly or on time." Have you spoken to the CFO about this? Are the company's finances opaque? The company has raised?

"There are no processes in place for anything. I manage a lot of things and am overworked with little time for anything else." This is pretty characteristic of startups: (work/workers > 1). Building a startup is like jumping off a cliff and putting a airplane together before you hit the ground, so you have to build the processes as you build the product and the team. Forget difficult, it's nearly impossible which is why most startups fail.

A startup requires that you pour your life into it. If you don't want to be working on it all the time then you shouldn't be working at that startup. If you are seeking work life balance then you shouldn't be working at a startup. Don't confuse a startup with an early-stage or young company. These can provide you with preexisting processes and work-life balance. Believe it or not there are people who still call facebook a 'startup'. Is coinbase a startup? No, not anymore. Startups are about love. Could you imagine telling your wife/husband, 'I love you and I'm committed to you, but I need to be able to see other girls/guys on the weekend.' That being said, it's critical to recharge and recreate strategically. Ever have a company field trip or retreat? Consider implementing a startup shabbat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRdMUhBPRjY

Much more data is necessary to provide a good answer.

[astartupemp]

The CEO is less technical and more business. I run software engineering. First employee. Company is 4 years old, I have been working here for 4 years. Known CEO for about the same time. I don't think we are friends since I basically avoid talking unless needed for work. Companies finances are okay. The product market fit is not all there yet. But there is a path to revenue. The Series A raised a few months ago is good enough to cover all costs and more for more than a year. There is no CFO, the CEO manages the finances. I have build a lot of the processes and I'm well aware of how start-ups work. We (2 founders + me) started working out of a coffee shop and now have about 20-25 full time people.

[pavlov]

What does the other founder do? Is [s]he aware that you're considering leaving?

Sounds like that person stands to lose a lot if you go. Maybe you should be talking with him or her.

[astartupemp]

Other founder is the CTO. I hope to do this sometime. Not so good at talking.

[justabystander]

I'm going to be a bit blunt here, as I think you've been avoiding seeing some things because you don't want to rock the boat. And also don't want to think that you've been played for four years. Replace the token [expletive] with your epithet of choice. I suggest one that starts with a vowel.

> about 20-25 full time people > Company is 4 years old

You're at a size where "startup pains" like not having money and working terrible hours should have long ended. With 10+ people, there should never be a late payment. Nor should any of you be paid significantly under your worth. And there should not be habitual late nights. Your boss certainly doesn't work them. And I doubt you get sufficient renumeration for them. You and your boss are justifying poor behavior because you want there to be an excuse. If you do run short on money, his current behavior shows that his absolute last priority is your wages.

> The CEO is less technical and more business. > There is no CFO, the CEO manages the finances.

He's not doing things this way because it's good for the company. He's doing it this way because he's a cheap, controlling [expletive] and doesn't want anyone else in control of the money. Even if there wasn't a CFO, he should have an accountant. A CEO should have a million more important things to do in order to foster revenue, sales and business potential other than personally handle the books. You have way too many people for one person to be an [expletive] and micromanage others while failing to do his own duty because he can't delegate properly.

> But there is a path to revenue.

This is not as hard a point to reach as you might think. You have fallen into the trap of thinking this business could reach critical mass while failing to notice that the person at the helm is selfish, greedy, controlling, and spiteful. Businesses that get super successful with a leader like that don't forever expand. They usually implode under the weight of managerial incompetence or social scandals caused by [expletive] leaders. If they're lucky, they get bought out before management has time to ruin it.

> The Series A

You've been going for four years and you still need VC to not collapse under your own weight? I'd get started on putting in place as many legal measures as possible to prevent the [expletive] boss from diluting my stock. I'd meet with co-workers on this to explain why it's important - it's a common trick pulled by startup jerks to avoid sharing the wealth and payout. And then I would tell him that he needs to fix his behavior or I'm gone in two weeks. That way everyone knows that he's the problem. Then I would probably leave anyway, because that sort of person will target you the minute you cross their authority line-of-sight.

> We (2 founders + me)

How are you not also a founder? You've been there since the beginning. The impression I get is that you do all the hard work and long hours and made the actual product while those two collect all the prestige. You should have stock that's approaching their individual shares, as well as a co-founder title. You were made an employee and yet you've had to work like an owner without the additional compensation. Could this company even exist without the work you did? If not, you basically have allowed them to shaft you from the beginning.

> Quit. But this would burn a lot of fingers/relationships and put the company in a spot since I'm pretty sure most things will break if I leave.

How is it your fault that they forced you to do the job of multiple employees? How is it your fault that they don't have dedicated staff to keep your hours down. You have 2 dozen people. You should be leading/managing people by now. If your boss was in your position, he would have leveraged this long ago for equal ownership and title. He would have taken the fact that the company would explode when he left and gotten what he deserved out of it. He wouldn't care about burnt bridges. You don't owe him anything. They have enough capital for a year. Tell him you want equal non-dilutable stock and a 40-hour work week or you walk in two weeks. There's not a thing he can do. If he makes threats, point out that you'd rather leave amicably, but you have plenty of grounds for a suit on labor conditions, as well as the ability to generate a lot of unfavorable press. Hell, talk with the VCs. They could probably direct you to another company that could give you what you're worth. And put in someone that can actually manage the company. They're providing money. They can do that.

You might not have noticed this, but your boss is an [expletive] MBA who takes everything for himself. He expects everyone else to act like [expletive] MBAs. In his book, those who don't demand their share are replaceable, and deserve what they agreed to. He doesn't think he owes you anything when you agreed to work for less to help "build" the company. Because he never would have done that. The only way you will be respected by him is if you demand what you're worth. If you don't, you're just another drone, to him.

He might be in charge at work, but if the way he acts is making you unhappy, make him fix it or leave. You have far more opportunities than you think.

[astartupemp]

Thanks. All of that seems right. I'm surprised I made all those mistakes and still don't know how to negotiate a way out of this.

[fsloth]

"A startup requires that you pour your life into it."

The dude is a salaried employee from what I can tell from his post. Unless he is part owner this is a highly unethical proposition.

[astartupemp]

I also do have equity. But of course a fraction of what the founders own.

[greenyoda]

If the company has problems making payroll on time, there's a good chance they'll go out of business before your equity becomes worth a cent.

[brudgers]

Do you have equity or options? Options will require you to find the money to purchase, typically within less than a year.

Good luck.

[striking]

Quit.

"What matters is not ideas, but the people who have them. Good people can fix bad ideas, but good ideas can't save bad people." --Paul Graham

[g8gggu89]

Is the CEO working these same crazy hours? Does the CEO get paid properly and on time? Are you getting paid a reasonable amount, really? Where's the funding coming from and why don't they hire another engineer when they clearly seem to need to?

Are you giving the CEO realistic expectations of when things will get done, including time for prerequisite things?

At a bare minimum, I would keep my resume updated and see if you can find a better offer.

[astartupemp]

I don't know how to measure work that is mostly email and meetings. Some deals have been struck that sound awesome in theory but executing them is a challenge for me in the present scenario. I don't (yet) care about money. I spend a lot on office expenses too and there is again no process for that either and I rarely get paid for those. I'm generally realistic with expectations and deliver on time but I believe there is plenty of accrued technical debt by now that I'm not sure I can manage well going in the future.

[g8gggu89]

> I don't (yet) care about money.

Will you be happy if the startup goes under and they've been paid and you haven't?

[astartupemp]

At this point I have no other expectations than hoping the product scales as has been envisioned and solves the problem at a meaningful scale to justify the 4 years I have put in. I'll figure out the money part somehow or just go broke and get another job.

[greenyoda]

You've already justified the four years you put in by doing much more than your share of the work to keep the company going this long. Nobody can fault an employee for leaving an abusive employer to pursue better opportunities.

Take a step back and realize that your self-worth is not based on the success of this company's product and this company is not your life or your family. With your skills and the experience you've gained from this job, you'll find a new job at a better-run company that will have a better chance of releasing a successful product.

Also, if you quit and they don't pay you every cent you've earned within the number of days required by law, you can file a wage-theft claim with your state's labor department - they're very serious about employers ripping off their employees and will file criminal charges if necessary. There's absolutely no reason why you should go broke because of this company's mismanagement.

[laurentoget]

There are three possibilities: 1- you really are a key asset to the company and the founders realize it, then they will work with you to keep you on board 2- you really are a key asset but they have no clue, and you will never be rewarded so you should probably cut your loss and leave 3- they do not really need you and if you are not happy there you have no reason to stay.

the only alternative in which you should remain there is (1) and you can only figure out where you stand by making it clear you will quit if things do not change.

TL;DR

learn to say No

[6d0debc071]

> Quit. But this would burn a lot of fingers/relationships and put the company in a spot since I'm pretty sure most things will break if I leave.

Well, that may or may not be true. But even if it is, so what? It's not your company.

You have given them work, they are supposed to have given you money. And you have both agreed that that is a fair compensation for your work, at least for as long as you are doing that work for that compensation. And that settles accounts; you're back to a position where you don't owe them any more work and they don't owe you any more money. There's no obligation in that for you to continue to work for them. You don't owe them any loyalty – that's not the sort of thing you can buy. (Phrased another way 'money is a bad retention tool.')

There are things where it makes sense to have a degree of personal loyalty to some of the people you work with in a company (though having a loyalty to the company as a whole is of course nonsense.) There are people who we might choose to continue working for, despite the fact that we might make more money elsewhere, because those people are good at what they do, take care of us, and we generally enjoy working with them. But it doesn't sound like that's the case here.

[ypcx]

You are in an abusive relationship with a sinking ship, and you should leave as fast and as cleanly as you can.

Even if you somehow manage to teeth it through and see the startup succeed, you will eventually be thrown away as an unhappy and unenthusiastic employee and be given a bad review, no matter what your achievements or sacrifices were.

More likely, due to the pressure, you will just burn out, start doing mistakes and avoiding work, getting yourself fired with a bad rep.

[greenyoda]

"you will eventually be thrown away as an unhappy and unenthusiastic employee and be given a bad review, no matter what your achievements or sacrifices were."

This is a very important point. The company's founders have absolutely no loyalty to him - they'd throw him out like trash (without the slightest regrets) as soon as it becomes convenient for them. Thus, he should not have any more loyalty to them than they have to him, and should not feel guilty about leaving to pursue better opportunities.

[kzhahou]

You have a shitty CEO. Sounds like he or she can't manage internally. Do you really think this person can actually lead the company to success? It's hard enough to succeed when you have everything in your favor, let alone when the person at the helm is not good at their job.

If the person at top is not good, what are the people learning at the next level down, and the levels below? Not much. Not how to be great. At best, they're learning how to "manage up" and deal with BS from the boss. Your leaders must be best in class. Not the best at everything, but the best people inside the company for their job functions.

You may not have the CEO title, but you are skilled and capable, and deserve better. Remember also that if the company succeeds, the CEO will reap the greatest rewards, by orders of magnitude. Should you continue to suffer for that outcome?

Also, pro-tip: when you leave, the company will not fall apart. It never does. People leave all the time. There's a very good chance that others are thinking of leaving (and interviewing as we speak) including the CTO. Oh, how many times I've left a job, to find out my manager left the week after me.

[greattypo]

"Been a few years, the start-up still is in the product development phase.. Product market fit is yet to be achieved"

Move on!

[ScottBurson]

Yeah, this is a huge red flag. Getting product-market fit shouldn't take years.

There are plenty of fun, non-abusive work situations out there. Find something that's already starting to grow and that has a happy vibe.

[johnkchow]

I've been in a very similar situation before (one of the first engineer hires in a company that grew to about 15 people when I left). It's great that you're loyal and conscientious (you won't have any problems finding a job).

The first thing you need to do is sit down with your CEO and have an honest conversation about how you feel. Come prepared with an outline of all your grievances and be very specific about what changes that you need to see to be made. This includes compensation and hours. These days early stage startups are offering super competitive salaries, and it's more than fair to ask.

Having this conversation gives him a chance to do you and your coworkers right. Best case scenario: he totally empathizes and has a change in heart, and the company as a whole benefits.

But you have to be prepared for the worst (which will probably happen): not only will he offended by your honesty, he'll come out attacking your character. These kinds of CEO are just emotionally clueless, and nothing you say or do will change their minds. In this situation, you must be fully prepared to walk away from this company. By staying you'll be enabling his behavior and you have nobody to blame but yourself for being in a hostile environment. By leaving, you not only will find a better opportunity (and you will), you hopefully will give the CEO a wake up call.

When I put in my 2 weeks notice, I got blasted and put my founders and fellow engineers in a tough spot. But a lot of good came out of me leaving. Immediately after my 2 weeks notice, the CEO pulled everyone aside and gave everyone raises which were near market rates. The founders also became more aware of how employees felt. A few other coworkers who were as miserable as I was eventually left the company too, and they're all in better, happier places.

There will be some people who will see you as leaving people behind and making things tougher for them. Over time those individuals will come around and see that whatever decision you made, you made it for the right reasons. The most important thing to keep in mind while you go through this: your top priority is your physical, mental, and (most important) emotional health. Don't listen to what other people say.

Good luck with all this. This will be a tough journey, but if you keep your chin up, I guarantee that this will be the best thing that you'll ever do.

[gknoy]

> By staying you'll be enabling his behavior and you have nobody to blame but yourself for being in a hostile environment. By leaving, you not only will find a better opportunity (and you will), you hopefully will give the CEO a wake up call.

This also means that you should have a BATNA, such as an offer of a new job. It sounds very much like the CEO's response will be to ask/force you to leave, so make sure you're operating from a position of strength if at all possible.

[jstoiko]

> The problem - Anger management, blames people for things when they go wrong. Unreasonable work expectations for product features and expectations that a person would be available anytime/any day weekends including to do work and support. Does not pay properly or on time. Does not communicate properly on what is happening at the high level. In short, someone for whom you will find it hard to work for even if you like the problem the company is trying to solve and doing your best for its success.

Have you raised this to him/her? My two cents: raise all the points along with one or two advices, this way she/he won't feel attacked but rather helped.

You may end up quitting if you're not satisfied with the reaction but at least you will have tried to fix it.

[jwatte]

Is the board independent? If so, the board is the boss of the CEO. You owe it to the board to let them know about problems with their charge. If the board is Buddy Buddy or the company is bootstrapped, then just give two weeks notice and start interviewing elsewhere.

[astartupemp]

AFAIK, there is no board yet. There are investors and advisers but I have no way of reaching to them.

[GFK_of_xmaspast]

It sounds like the bridges are half-burnt already, and not by you. Moonwalk on out the door and get your local Department of Labor on the phone.

[1arity]

Go out with the person on a personal basis. Get to know them ( only so that what you will eventually say will have more impact ), and then hit them with the following,

"Your anger and blaming doesn't work. It's actually giving away your power to others by pretending they are responsible for what is not working with your company. It looks more and it is more powerful if you own all of this mess, and take responsibility for all of it. Also, the anger stuff is unnecessary, it just makes you look frustrated and weak, because you seem to be saying you are so dependent on these other people that their choices so greatly vex you. Well...what kind of powerful person would do that? Look, I may not be the kind of entrepreneur you are, nor have the same technical or social skills. And I do know what I am talking about. Sure you can choose to believe that I'm just some person who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, or you can choose to believe I know it when I see it. And believe me, I see it with you. I see your potential, and I see how these things are in your way. I want this company to be great, and I want you to be great. I know you are, there's just your lack of clarity on these issues which is missing."

[lewisjoe]

Your personal life and your peace of mind is as important(or even more important) as your willingness to solve interesting problems. Quit.

[god_bless_texas]

Have you had any honest conversations about this with the CEO yet?

I see most people saying "quit!", but really that is not fair to the business or the other people who are there. This kind of behavior gives technical people a bad name, and perpetuates the myth that we are social hermits who cannot sell or run companies. You admitted that you effectively avoid the CEO, so how would he know you've got this displeasure?

He or She deserves to know how they are fucking up. If it were me, I would gauge the response to this conversation as my go/no-go decision maker. Could be that they are all over the place and don't realize they have reached this point. You may have a heart to heart and say, "look, I need these things fixed and top of the list is your overt behavior". Any sane CEO is going to consider your contribution, realize their behavior has degraded and quickly adjust. If not, pack your bags, baby!

The pay and such is actually a separate issue, and _no excuses_ should be sorted out - right now.

[justabystander]

> I see most people saying "quit!", but really that is not fair to the business or the other people who are there. This kind of behavior gives technical people a bad name, and perpetuates the myth that we are social hermits who cannot sell or run companies.

This is hardly a fair statement. A person specializing in business, marketing, or PR would do the same thing - quit if their manager/CEO is terrible. Moreover, they would have demanded far more out of the company and left within 2 years instead of four.

People saying "quit" are doing it because it's not really worth the hassle to them. They're avoiding conflict. Which is quite acceptable unless he's going to use that conflict to better his own position. He's spent four years of dealing with this and being underpaid. He could just walk and get a better paying job in a better environment. Standing up for himself might bring vengeful behavior out of his boss. It would fit with his other actions.

> This kind of behavior gives technical people a bad name, and perpetuates the myth that we are social hermits who cannot sell or run companies.

There is absolutely nothing here that deserves you pushing a tech stereotype or hermit narrative on it. Conflict avoidance is a well-known human issue. Hundreds of people in hundreds of fields quit because of leadership issues.

It is completely unfair to make people think that you have to allow people to treat you poorly as part of a proper social structure. That's a hostile work environment, and there are laws about that sort of thing for a reason. You don't ever have to "resolve" things. Leaving is always an option.

> Unreasonable work expectations for product features and expectations that a person would be available anytime/any day weekends including to do work and support.

There's another labor violation. This CEO specializes in "business". He knows the rules. He has no excuse for his behavior. He doesn't treat his employees respectfully, so he's not deserving of any loyalty. And the other founder doesn't stop it, though I'm sure he sees it, too. Management doesn't really care.

He shouldn't have to have this conversation in the first place. Don't blame him for not wanting to have it. There are 20+ people in that company. It's not his job to be the messenger if he doesn't want to.

Though I'd still recommend doing it because it would teach him to recognize and prevent these situations in the future.

[rajacombinator]

Quit, get a job at a real company. Not sure how you can go 4 years and 25 employees and no product/market fit, failing to pay people on time, and yourself as employee #1 having no processes in place. (You're to blame for the last one.) What are the other 22 people doing?

[rational-future]

Ask to be appointed CTO. If it goes through you'll have a lot more freedom, if not just quit.

[astartupemp]

There is a CTO, co-founder and I don't think he is that much better off then I am except for the fact the the risk/reward equation is a lot better for him.

[boomzilla]

This is a key point. If you three all started from a coffee shop, why are they co-founders and you are the first employee? Even if the other two persons worked on the company a few month before you started, after 4 years, you'd been there (and hopefully contributed) 90% of the founders time and contribution.

Startup life is hard, and it's a lot easier to sacrifice with significant ownership and a sense of purposes.

[astartupemp]

Well I didn't come up with the idea and I waited until they could raise some seed because I needed a salary. I did build the product from scratch, in fact that's the only thing out in the market currently. I didn't care about titles. And I didn't know about equity. I just joined because I wanted to solve the problem.

[g8gggu89]

What does the CTO say about the CEO's behavior?

[astartupemp]

I haven't had a direct conversation about this yet. But other colleagues have. He is aware of the problem and has tried having some conversations but that haven't gone down well. The alpha is too dominant.

[AshFurrow]

Run, don't walk, out the door.

[fsloth]

Do what feels right for you. Taking responsibility is a fantastic trait but you are foremost responsible for you own health and finances. Ethically, IMO, you are not responsible to the company beyond what it says in your contract.

[RollAHardSix]

> Does not pay properly or on time.

Say 'goodbye'. That's a sin for companies to commit.

Do you have equity? If not, you don't need to worry about the company, especially when the CEO is providing you no support.

[metasean]

I've been there.

I've done that.

I finally quit and am so much healthier and sane for having done so!

Bullies, no matter how good their ideas, are bullies.

Bullies do not make good bosses, however they do make work environments rather toxic.

[jqm]

All of these things, although unpleasant, can be worked with except one: "Does not pay properly or on time."

There is no option. You owe them nothing. Quit. Immediately.

[revelation]

If you're not being paid on time, you quit, and then you report the company. There is nothing left to discuss here.

[gorbachev]

Your sanity / well being is more important than the company. Quit.

[g8gggu89]

Will you send them my resume?

Is there something like glassdoor for startups so people can try to avoid startups like this?

[astartupemp]

Well I definitely don't refer friends here. But I also do recruit people. I do take care of the people I recruit by shielding most communication between the new hires and the CEO. I also believe that I need to plan an exit strategy by recruiting people that could replace me because the others cannot.

[greenyoda]

If you're just an employee, it's management's responsibility, not yours, to make sure the company can survive your leaving.

You shouldn't feel guilty about quitting, since they'd fire you in a minute without any warning if it was convenient for them.

[paulhauggis]

"Potential solution - Quit. But this would burn a lot of fingers/relationships and put the company in a spot since I'm pretty sure most things will break if I leave. There are no processes in place for anything. I manage a lot of things and am overworked with little time for anything else."

You may think this, but the company will find someone to replace you. From what you described, you should quit. Chances are, it's not going to get any better. People (especially people in power) don't just change overnight and will most likely try to get you fired if you go against them (I've seen it happen too many times).

[invalidfunc]

This was my scenario recently - and quitting was the best thing I ever did. They replaced me a few weeks later and the company is doing a-ok. I didn't burn bridges and am very close friends with the people that work there

Leave professionally, don't bad-mouth anyone, and go on with your life. Chances are you'll find a better job now you know what to look out for.

[jeffmould]

Came here to provide the same answer. From the sounds of it, the company is already broken, so quitting is not going to make matters any worse. If you are unhappy, not getting paid, and constantly worried about how your performance is viewed or handled, it is time to run to the door.

[erkkie]

Yes, run! Do not keep satisfied with a toxic situation, that's a fast-lane to burnout.

edit: alternatively, consider some time off, might be you're already overworked and would see things from a different perspective after some rest.

[michaelochurch]

I have been there. There are three options here:

Option A: get the fuck out.

Option B: get the fuck out.

Option C: get the fuck out.

Your boss is a jerk and doesn't pay on time. He's hiding high-level information, which means that (a) he's planning to screw you, (b) that the investor front is going badly and there might be nothing happening, or (c) that he doesn't view you as an equal partner in the business. (No exclusive "or"; probably all three are true.)

You're spending too much time and emotional energy on a business that has no future. If it had a future, it wouldn't have existed for several years and still be missing payroll. If you're honest with yourself, I think you'll probably notice that what's keeping you there is the "sunk cost" fallacy. Stop wasting more time. Count it as a learning experience and use it for personal growth, but get out as soon as possible. (Start sending out CVs. Don't actually quit until you have a better job.)