Ask HN: I just gave myself a panic attack. How do I stop this?

[lsiunsuex]

UI Lead here - managing a few projects at any given time, mentoring junior developers, working with the backend team on endpoints, etc... most of you know the drill.

Pulled master branch, no build errors, Angular isn't complaining but I know the problem is in the UI side, probably with graphQL (angular apollo). I cannot get a single VSCode extension to work to help debug it so a junior is going through and commenting out code they changed to try to find it.

There is no way this project is done on time and the entire software department is looking at it. I'm 1 of 3 leads on it.

Quite literally just gave myself a panic attack thinking about it and the looming deadline.

This isn't the first time; I've been dealing with this for months now. It went away for a bit (2-3 months) and now it's back. I've been drinking all kinds of clamming teas, supplements, trying to change my diet, walk more, etc...

I just can't stop them :( 99% of the time it's chest pain or back pain or etc... every once in a while it escalates into a panic attack.

I keep trying to tell myself f' it - it doesn't matter. Fire me if you want to; we're doing the best we can. But it's not sinking in...

I.do.not.know.what.to.do.anymore. Vacation? FMLA? Career change? wtf would I do if not web development (been doing it 20+ years)

help.

[dafzal]

Your role as a lead is NOT to get the project delivered on time. Instead, your job is to bubble up updates and timelines and let your superiors handle the stress of the impending deadline. It is better for them to hear about delays earlier than be surprised about missed deadlines.

Stress/anxiety comes from rushing due to taking on responsibility for an impossible deadline. Do not rush, but instead work with urgency and learn to deflect the pressure to switch from urgency mode to panic rush mode.

You are not personally responsible for a timeline.

People will yell and scream if you miss whatever boat you are trying to catch. But this is not your problem, your problem is to build what your building with urgency.

The only way to make this mindset shift is to find activities outside work that bring you happiness/grounding/etc so that you can realize that the things you currently think are important are not important and it is only a job.

I've personally struggled with this for years, call/txt me anytime if you want to talk 4153413957

[BizarroLand]

Yeah, it sounds like you're trying to take responsibility for the whole project while neither having authority nor capacity to do so.

Your panic attack is happening because you are getting worked up and your body is producing adrenaline to help you accomplish your goals but there is no release of the tension, no pathway within an adrenaline-pumped maintainable time frame to achieve the end goal.

The solution is what dafzal is saying, you need to re-frame your mindset in regards to this project. You need to set better, achievable, (smaller) goals such as, "Today I will get this extension functioning.", "The next task I will do is get info on the progress of X for my report.", etc.

You need to gratify your desire for completion by breaking this gigantic project up into smaller, completable steps and know that as long as you churn out completed tasks at a decent rate then you are doing your part to make the project a success. That is all that is being asked of you. You are doing what you are paid for and that is good enough.

[libertine]

You might need therapy mate... maybe your fear of having a panic attack fuels the panic attack - as if your first panic attack was enough of a traumatic experience, or at at least extremely unpleasant, and you might have anxiety as a trigger for panic attacks.

What helped me the most was:

- recognizing that I'm fine/healthy, like go do a check-up if that's bothering you;

- getting used to physiological discomfort, for example exercise (or yoga I think helps as well). Like the concept that having high heart BPM, and high blood pressure, and shortness of breath, becomes familiar to you to the point you don't even be bothered by it... your body will perceive that as you're fine, and that body condition fades away and you become calm and relaxed after it.

For example: chest and back pain are usually from shallow breathing, which is recruiting auxiliary muscles. On the other hand your neck/back muscles are probably tense.

Basically you need to feel that you're safe in your own body, which is an odd concept the first time you come around it, but in a sense you might be fearful of the reaction of your body to some stressors.

The worst part is that it can't just be rationalized, it's probably very hard to try to just solve this through logic, because your body does his own thing when it comes to reacting to emotions, it releases hormones so there's no thinking through that.

Even if you have a stressful job (which you should consider if it's the best for you, or at least try to change what's stressing about it), and it can be the source of your anxiety, but panic attack doesn't have to be the outcome, even within that scenario.

Above all, if it's has an impact on your day to day, you need to get it checked.

[RulerOf]

>- recognizing that I'm fine/healthy, like go do a check-up if that's bothering you;

>- getting used to physiological discomfort, for example exercise (or yoga I think helps as well).

I had to do these two things to get past regular panic attacks. All I did was run every other day for at least 40 minutes and my panic attacks disappeared for over a year... until a few months after I stopped running.

The quality of life difference was substantial. It improved the quality of my work, too.

[throw8383833jj]

Magnesium definately can help calm the nerves in the short term. the vast majority of the population is deficient in this essential mineral. try to get it from natural sources: bananas, cashew nuts, leafy greens, whole grains, beans, cacao powder (this is a very dense source for it).

Long term, it sounds like you work at a severely toxic work place. there's only one thing to do with such a place, get it out of your life.

as far as "being a web developer", much of people's mental pain and conflict in their lives comes from their sense of identity. Long term advice: look up a mystic named "Sadhguru" on youtube and watch some of his better known speeches (some of this stuff is seriously life changing knowledge). that will give you some insights into how to begin deal with life problems.

[eatonphil]

For actual mental/health issues, don't come to HN. There should be no stigma with seeing a therapist or psychiatrist. They will help you! Folks on HN can't help you the same way.

[mtberatwork]

First off, take a step back and do about 2 - 5 minutes of deep breathing ("Box Breathing" [0] is a popular technique.) Second, know that you are not alone here. You've got a team working on solving the problem and you aren't tackling it all by yourself. You can relax your shoulders a bit. Third, it's OK if the project doesn't get done on time ... no matter what the PHBs are complaining about, it doesn't matter. I've also got 20 years in (plus two major burnouts) and I have never seen a missed deadline be more then a minor setback. It happens all the time.

Now, going forward. Yes, it sounds like you need a break/vacation. Take one! Vacation time is meant to be used. It also sounds like you are juggling too many projects at work. Talk with your bosses and see if you can offload some of these projects or get more people hired. Communicate with them that you and your team are overloaded and it's not good for the organization.

Lastly, dealing with anxiety takes time and there is no shame in getting help from a professional. In the mean time, the NHS has a number of good audio/resources regarding mental well-being [1]. I came across them a long time ago and found them quite helpful. Also, talk with immediate family members or even close friends if you can. We are social, family-oriented creatures after all and need support. Taking care of your physical and mental health is a life-long journey and there are LOTS of techniques and things to do. Some will work for you, some won't ... everyone is different. You might also stumble again and that's completely normal. You will absolutely get through this (and anyone else reading who is in the same boat).

[0] https://www.healthline.com/health/box-breathing [1] https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/self-help/guides-tools-and-...

[vgel]

Next time you have a panic attack: get a large bowl. Fill it with cool or cold water. Take a deep breath and dunk your face in the bowl for as long as possible, ideally 20-30 seconds. Make sure the water goes up to your upper cheeks / temples. Repeat 5, 6, as many times until the panic recedes. If it feels like it's not working, keep doing it.

This is using the dive reflex, which is a mechanism mammals evolved for swimming underwater. It slows your heart rate, redistributes oxygen, does a bunch of stuff that helps calm you down. This means it's a physiological effect: if you keep doing it, it will work. If you're panicking about how it's not working, keep doing it. You don't need to "try to do it right", if you're holding your breath and have your face underwater, over time your body moves into a state incompatible with panic. You might still be anxious, but you won't be having a panic attack. However it treats the symptom not the cause, so you need to use other skills afterwards. This skill simply allows you to use other skills from a place of strength instead of a place of panic.

Using the dive reflex for panic attacks is an idea from Dialectal Behavior Therapy.

Good luck.

[lightning19]

Congrats! - this might be a blessing for you just like it was for me.

I had vitamin d deficiency induced anxiety recently. After my first panic attack I was in bad state, won't get into the details but it was by far the worst day of my life. This is how I got through it:

- First ever panic attack (felt like I was going crazy, thought that I couldn't ever work again). Went to doctor and he gave me some pills. This is super important if you're unable to cope with/control your anxiety. Took the pills for 2 days and never had to touch it again.

- After taking the pills I had mental clarity like I've never experienced before. I realized that I must've always had anxiety but just never at this bad.

- Read “The Anxiety Skills Workbook" by STEFAN G. HOFMANN. This got me back to a functioning human being but anxiety was still there.

- Read "Feeling Great" by David Burns. Made more progress, anxiety almost gone.

- Started meditation by watching Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche videos. This has changed my life, the same mental clarity I felt after taking the anxiety pills has returned. My bad habits are going away too.

- I still get anxiety but I can control it now. It's natural for your body to experience. You need to embrace it and not fear it.

[tuckerpo]

Deadlines should always be a management problem. Missing deadlines ought to be a signal that there are inefficiencies somewhere - your requirements are unclear, goalposts are a little too fluid, etc.

It's really your job as a lead to objectively report status of things, and it's management's job to listen to what you have to say. It might be helpful to attempt to detach emotion when thinking about the upcoming deadline - instead of "oh shit, will I be fired? will I lose the respect of my peers?" - think more - "what can I personally do to mend this?"

You may come to the conclusion that deadlines are mostly out of your control - and especially, people's reactions to deadlines being missed is 100% out of your control, and should not be taking up any mental real estate. Is it really worth panicking, losing hair, gaining weight, being miserable stressing over the PM getting his 10% bonus for shipping on time?

[acadapter]

Consider the idea of changing your job and/or dietary habits.

Sometimes, a workplace doesn't care about its people enough to feed realistic expectations into the production flow.

Also, talk with a health professional about this. Is the feeling of panic related to high blood sugar levels (eating lots of carbs during stress)? There is for example a phenomenon called "diabetic rage". Or maybe there's too much caffeine in the tea? Do you pause your coffee intake when drinking tea at the job? Or maybe it's something totally different that's hard to think of as a non-professional.

[trixie_]

Sounds like there's a communication issue between you and whoever is holding you to this deadline. You should have a week of buffer at least. If you think you're coming in hot, notify whoever ASAP that the deadline needs to be extended and/or more resources need to be allocated to your project. If neither are possible then escalate the issue higher up. It's there's still no action, miss the deadline, it's ok to let the ball drop if you can't handle it. Don't stress it either. It's a signal to the company of a larger issue, especially if it's documented that ample notification was given. It will be the person that held the deadline that will be ultimately be responsible for not working with you to resolve the situation.

You are part of a company/team, if you're soloing basically anything without support that's a red flag. Don't take failure personally, if you've done everything correct and communicated properly any failure is the team, not just you. I used to be in your situation. You need to change your perspective and detach any personal responsibility. Do what you can, and if you can't communicate. Failure is an option, but don't view it as yours. If you think things could of been done better, people should of listened, save it for the retrospective.

[999900000999]

If you can afford it, it's not a bad idea to take a vacation.

And if you keep seeing unrealistic deadlines at work, just go somewhere else. It's extremely hard to get someone to treat you the right way.

It's much easier to find someone else, and this can go for a manager, friends, partners, etc.

Is this the only job where you have this issue, maybe taking a lower paid role where you're no longer a lead would be better. The idea of being a manager of any sort horrifies me to no end.

[softwaredoug]

Anger is the antidote to anxiety.

Get pissed. It helps you be assertive and protect yourself.

Learn the difference, of course, between assertiveness and aggression. https://www.lodestonecenter.com/assertive-vs-aggressive/#:~:....

[pictur]

I do not find this advice correct. When we do not manage your anxiety, directing you to anger can put you in very bad situations.

[rsrsrs86]

I think I get what anger means here. I think the OP meant that you need to express your angry feelings that come from the frustration; just holding back will only make it worse. Don't think OP meant to be violent.

[pictur]

I think you have no idea what anger is. I hope you continue your life like this.

[softwaredoug]

Anger is an emotion, it's a signal that your boundaries are violated and you need to assert your needs. It's not the same as violence.

See here:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/real-women/202112/ho...

[fknorangesite]

The other people in this thread suggesting therapy are correct. In the meantime, I also strongly recommend the book 'Calming Your Anxious Mind' by Jeffrey Brantley; it's fantastic. My spouse suffered from terrible panic attacks and what helped her in the end was a combination of the two above things.

[rsrsrs86]

For me, it's medication. Alprazolam, whenever I feel that my anxiety level is unjustifiable - and panic causes a lot more physical pain that plain anxiety, so I kinda know if it's a panic attack.

Over the years I started getting used to it - not much to worry when it comes, just pop alprazolam.

It's a medical condition.

[muldvarp]

You probably know this, but to anyone reading this: Be very careful with alprazolam. Benzodiazepine dependence is absolutely not something I can recommend.

[GianFabien]

There are many good suggestions here.

The one thing that stands out for me is that you have been doing this for 20+ years. Yet you say that the panic attacks only started a few months ago. What was happening when the early panic attacks happened?

Without further information some things that come to mind are: you got promoted to lead a different team; you are working for a different manager or company; management have shifted their focus; you have had some staff changes in your team or related teams; something in your personal life has changed, etc.

Finally is there something COVID related for you, your team or the company?

Too many questions. Helping with the panic attacks is an obvious first step. Removing or changing the causes of them is the long-term fix.

[s1artibartfast]

I run into the same struggles at work with anxiety and expectations.

Telling myself I can quit, get fired, ect didnt help.

What did help was bringing more honesty into my job and letting go of ego. I felt like I was making the project success personal, suppressing and internalizing the stress, and holding myself to an impossible expectation.

My recommendation would be to just bite the bullet and give an honest update to your manager, tell them where you are, and ask if they have any additional ideas. Healthy organizations actually want this. If your manager blames you, you have a different problem to deal with, but at least you are one step towards getting out of your personal hell.

[dudeofea]

having had a few hundred, I usually characterized mine as having the following timeline:

1. A few seconds of acute fear

2. 10 to 30 minutes of anxiety

3. An hour or two of cooldown before return to normal (initially it just drained all my energy and made me depressed)

I'm a naturally anxious person, but that's okay. here are some things that help in phase 1:

- Spot 5 things you see, 4 things you hear, 3 things you touch, 2 things you smell, 1 thing you taste

- Try to think logically about what it is you are anxious about. I had medical anxiety and would convince myself of delusions of having possibly contracted tetanus from a finger prick while restringing my guitar. After some research, the logical conclusion was that tetanus is most commonly found on farmer's fields not metal, presents in deep wounds and has an incubation of 10 days on average, so no point worrying now. It's also curable.

- If all else fails, just remember phase 2 will soon be around the corner

For phase 2, remember that your emotions and your thoughts are most likely at odds. if you can integrate what your emotions feel into what your thoughts think, you may still have panic attacks but they shouldn't ruin your day. This is where the CBT that others mentioned is relevant. I sparsely went to therapy so didn't know this initially. Many times with my panic attacks I felt as though there was a question that needed answering and once I found the answer I would have to write it down because afterwards I felt that the answer no longer mattered enough to remember. This happened many times as I believe I was piecing my life together one anxiety at a time. I think I didn't remember it because it became a part of me.

For phase 3, have some snacks and try to get your energy back.

Another important part of CBT is asking yourself the question: what would I be doing now if I was living a worthwhile life?

and then doing that no matter how much it feels wrong.

EDIT: I rarely go to therapy and am not big on drugs of any kind (even alcohol, tylenol, caffeine). What did help for me which I don't necessarily recommend is a keto diet. I now fast until ~2pm each day and I find I get similar albeit less pronounced benefits.

[anamax]

Never care more about someone else's project than they do. (A more positive version is "Your job is to do your job, not someone else's job.")

This isn't your project - it's your company's project. It will get done according to the resources that the company has provided, resources which are largely outside your control OR responsibility.

If this project is late and/or crap, that's on them. They own the consequences of their decisions, good or bad, not you.

[pictur]

The best and worst thing about stress is that once you get used to it, it doesn't affect you later. so that's the case for me. I felt so numb. I guess what I should have done was to step aside without so much stress, but I didn't. If you have a chance to step aside, I suggest you consider it. your job is not more important than your life.

[DantesKite]

> I've been drinking all kinds of clamming teas, supplements, trying to change my diet, walk more, etc...

One thing that helped me to calm down during a very difficult part of my life (and I'm not saying this will be a complete solution, but a partial one) was massages and isolation baths.

There's something about being physically relaxed that seems to transfer emotionally.

Best of luck.

[teslabox]

Emotional stress increases the brain's demand for glucose and other nutrients. Orange juice is a great anti-stress food. B-vitamins are also required for the metabolism. Iodine is needed for thyroid hormone.

Supplemental carbon dioxide opens arteries to improve circulation in the brain. (Get a paper bag and stick your face in it.)

[BlameKaneda]

Breathing into a paper bag is a stereotypical "calm yourself down when panicking" technique, but I've done it mid-panic and it has had an effect on me. With that being said, it's debatable as to how well it works.

[aaaaaaaaata]

Depriving yourself of oxygen and increasing CO² does have a sedative effect, yes.

Might also be the focus on one's breathing that helps one detatch from the stressor.

[Traubenfuchs]

Short term:

Benzos and other GABa active drugs (highly effective, highly addictive, can reduce cognitive performance while on them)

Betablockers (propranolol) (not effective for all kind of anxiety/panic issues, non addictive, might make you feel weak/weird)

Long term:

Meditation, CBT

[MattOfNZ]

This was me a couple of years ago. You have asked for help - that’s a great first step here.

Talk to your doctor. Panic attacks aren’t something you have to just live with. They can often help with a “patch” in the form of anti-anxiety meds.

This will help give you headspace to figure out your next steps.

Moving forward, you need to go for the root cause. The long term “fix” here might be something you have suggested - or it might be something else. For myself, I found that a new company helped a bit (until it didn’t), but the long term fix has been working for myself.

The lifestyle + diet advice can also be helpful. No single person here will have all the answers for you - pick some bits from each and give them a try.

Talk to your friends and family. They can bring some outside perspective to the situation at work which might be helpful.

Tldr: Meds are a good patch that gives you the opportunity to go after the root cause on your own terms.

[tsol]

Wim hof breathing could help.

Honestly there's a list of supplements and techniques that can help. From meditation and cold showers to magnesium and black seed oil. They are all employed for anxiety, but you have to try them yourself one by one. But for most people, just going to a doctor is the simplest thing and the thing they're most likely to stick to. It's hard to try supplements, them failing week after week, until you find the right thing. It can be done but most people only do that when they've exhausted all the other options. Exhaust your options first

[prichino]

Magnesium in the short term, fix lifestyle long term

[bfuller]

Try a gluten free lifestyle, gluten psychosis is a thing. I had stress induced gluten intolerance and one of the main symptoms was my heart beating out of my chest. Within a few weeks of strictly maintaining FODMAP my anxiety went away.

In the meantime, practice anti-anxiety breathing techniques (google should help you here, there are even helpful apps that help guide you) but those techniques are really bandaids to cover a shitty situation

[kayamon]

idk why this is at the bottom. My life experience of gluten and anxiety has been very much the same.

Happy tummy happy head.

[hogrider]

I just never cared about their arbitrary deadlines. Idgaf. It's on them if they want the world for the few pennies they are investing in this (never worked in a properly funded project). Also at some point I became an actual marxist leninist communist so aftar that it's not even remote likely I'll care how the bussiness is doing.

[qnsi]

go to the therapy