Ask HN: How to become a vegan?

[feider]

I live in a modern western culture and my diet contains typical western foods. After being diagnosed with a mild hypertension with family history of hypertension, I've become interested in more healthy diets.

After reading MD Greger's nutritionfacts.org I'm willing to start decreasing animal protein intake with a hope of becoming a vegan one day.

Any advice/stories from people with similar background?

[pvaldes]

In a totally neuter tone. Why do you identify vegan + pills with "healthy diet" and omnivorous with "unhealthy diet"? A diet that leads to nerve damage unless you add suplements to avoid it, do not sounds to me as "healthy" by definition.

Lets say that "vegans live longer". This is our null hypothesis. Is the percentage of pure vegans among the longest living people in the world significatively higher?

Jeanne Calment: Smoker. Some alcohol. Active. Diet rich in olive oil and lots of chocolate. 122 Yo.

Susannah Mushatt Jones. Sleeping a lot and eating bacon each day. 116 Yo

Jiroemon Kimura. Favourite food, pickled mackerels. 116 Yo

Christian Mortensen. Moderated smoker, not alcohol, active, diet with a lot of potatoes and vegetables. Some meat. 115 Yo.

Emiliano Mercado: Eating corn and codfish each day. 115 Yo.

...

As a footnote, I'll only buy a book titled "I will show you how to live forever" or so, if it was written by an author 100 years old at least.

[PerfectElement]

I think you are trying to draw a scientific conclusion from extremely rare anecdotes.

I would look at the adventists health[1] studies or the Blue Zones[2] for longevity data associated to diet and lifestyle.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_Health_Studies [2]- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone

[pvaldes]

Not, In fact I'm trying to start some critic discussion.

If somebody claims that a vegan diet is healthier and better, I would expect some facts that support that claim at least. Do you know somebody that became centenary following a strict vegan diet? I think that we can discard directly all historical data of "vegan" people living before 1945 or so, because some vitamins weren't still industrially synthesized. This people either faked their veganism or were really very ill. History after 1945 is relatively well documented; thus should be possible to find inspiring stories about actual vegan people living until 100 Yo.

On the other hand, reaching 100 years with a mediterranean diet or a Japanese diet based in marine food has been proved as uncommon, but perfectly possible, with dozens of cases reported at least.

[feider]

I'm genuinely interested in this topic. I'm not saying that vegan diet is the best diet out there, but what I've read so far it really seems to be a much healthier alternative than the "western default".

Some interesting studies about vegan diet and it's impact on health:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2007.270/full http://www.bmj.com/content/293/6560/1468 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/1097-0142(1989080...

All these studies contain findings that support the idea of vegan diet being one of the healthiest option: vegans tend to have lower BMI, blood pressure and reduced (prostate) cancer rate.

[pvaldes]

I'll take a look later...

[PerfectElement]

> If somebody claims that a vegan diet is healthier and better, I would expect some facts that support that claim at least.

The links I provided show studies that support that claim. If you are interested in more, please visit nutritionfacts.org.

> Do you know somebody that became centenary following a strict vegan diet?

Google Dr. Ellsworth Wareham. 101 old, vegan for the last 50 years, retired surgeon who worked until age 95 and is still very active. I'm sure there are others, but again, this alone doesn't prove anything when it comes to which diet is healthier.

Since a very tiny percentage the world is vegan, of course you will find more centenarians who are not vegan, that's why you need to look at studies that control for this and other factors.

> This people either faked their veganism or were really very ill.

If you are thinking about b12, which is the only supplement most vegans today are advised to take, keep in mind that this vitamin is produced by bacteria. Before we washed our foods and lived in sterile environments, b12 was not a problem.

Abstinence from animal products dates as far back as Pythagoras with his Pythagorean diet, at least.

> On the other hand, reaching 100 years with a mediterranean diet or a Japanese diet based in marine food has been proved as uncommon, but perfectly possible, with dozens of cases reported at least.

The Okinawans, whose life expectancy was among the highest in the world, ate significantly less fish than the rest of Japan. Their staple was sweet potatoes (69% of their calories)[1].

[1]- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet

[pvaldes]

> this alone doesn't prove anything

It proves that it is possible. Is a lot in my opinion.

> The links I provided show studies that support that claim

Okinawans aren't vegan people. They eat fish or cephalopods 3 days a week on average, that is less that other Japanese people, but more than a lot of europeans. They eat more pork than average japanese. Its diet includes potatoes, cucumbers, tea, relatively few rice, some meat, all parts of pork, squids, octopus, shellfish, echinoderms, poultry and eggs. As much other lactose intolerant Asian people, they don't use dairy products but this is not for ideological reasons.

In sum, this is not a vegan style life, is an omnivorous low fat content diet combined with a lot of exercise and frequent exposure to cold temperatures.

Many people living in blue zones have several things in common. They are located in coastal areas or next. They exercise moderate but regularly, and avoid stress. Eat small portions and low fat content diets but including both animals and vegetables, and a lot of sea food. They are omnivorous with a wide food spectrum, not vegan.

[PerfectElement]

I never claimed Okinawans were vegan, but they eat less animals, specially fish, than the rest of Japan. That was a counter argument to your correlation between eating fish and longevity.

Again, for the only long term study on a vegan population, look at the US adventists studies, who live longer than any other population in the US.

[pvaldes]

Hum, nice links... very interesting.

[m_mueller]

I'm a meat eater, but we should acknowledge that iron from red meat, while easy to absorb, has been linked to a higher stomach cancer rate. There may be ways to mitigate it (e.g. yoghurt), but it's AFAIK so far unproven whether it's possible to get rid of that effect.

[pvaldes]

Yes, high intakes of iron, vitamin E and copper are linked with higher probability of developping canker in the digestive system. On the other hand, this risk is not exclusive of meat eaters; copper sulphate is a common treatment against plagues in vegetables. Unless you peel or clean thoroughly your vegetables, your diet could have a lot of copper achieving the same result.

[PerfectElement]

The /vegan sub reddit is pretty active and supportive. You will find plenty of folks willing to help there.

Dr. Greger's book How Not To Die is a good source of nutritional information.

My 2 cents as someone who's been vegan for almost 15 years:

- Don't be too hard on yourself. Being vegan is not about being perfect.

- When eating out, explore ethnic foods. You will find that it's easier to find dishes that are vegan by default or almost vegan on non-western restaurants.

- Try to find the macro distribution that works best for you and work with it within a vegan framework. I thrive on high carb, but you will find all sorts of vegan diets out there, including keto.

- Avoid drama. Just by saying you are vegan, you may get negative emotional reactions from people. When confronted, just say it's a personal choice and move on. Too much time can be spent arguing with people who are ignorant on this topic.

[quintes]

Take your b12 vitamins too.

Do not eat poorly, take the time to make food lists and get what you need so you don't end up eating less nutritious food. Try tofu. initially eating at bbq may be tough but your friends and family will support you.

[fred_is_fred]

Lack of B12 is no joke. You can have permanent damage or die from this.

[acrynx]

My girlfriend and I have been vegan for about 3,5 years now and are not planning to go back. For me the transition was really easy and I feel it can definitely be so for everyone. It's really all about your standards and perception.

If you want everything to taste exactly the way that non-vegan food does, that's not gonna work out. If you're ready to substitute the dishes you eat now with ones that taste different but just as good or even better though, then you're already all set.

You just have to be open minded about the change and it will come naturally, really. Also you really don't have to substitute meat with soy and other replacement products at all. They often taste bad or are unhealthy and replacing them with something more natural (like lentils, beans, potatoes etc.) is almost always better, across the board.

Really, just buy a vegan cookbook or gather recipes from blogs, try them and discover your favourites. Checking the ingredients of all the stuff you buy is the only thing you have to do.

One thing that could bother you though would be limited options when eating in restaurants. There is almost always at least one vegan option available, but you just won't have as much choice as before, which could be a dealbreaker for you.

You'll have to decide that for yourself. Though there are also many great vegan-only restaurants that serve really great stuff that you might not have discovered until now :)

Good luck on your journey, feel free to ask questions!

[jzd131]

I became vegan for heath reasons at the same time I started my company (around 5 years ago). I believe it has allowed my body to stay young and my alertness to go up.

Starting out you just think of it as one meal at a time... this meal I won't eat anything with animal protein. Then one week at a time and before you know it you will pass the 90-day mark which is when you stop being hungry all the time and/or craving meat at all.

Another thing to note is I never really think of myself as a "vegan", just someone that is extremely picky and won't eat anything with animal protein :)

Do take b12 supplements, though- I found my eye to be drooping when I became tired because I was deficient. After taking the b12 I was back to normal.

[rhinoceraptor]

Don't forget vitamin K2, it's important for regulating calcium. The most common sources are dairy and eggs. There are non-animal sources (natto, sauerkraut), but they're not exactly typical foods for most people.

[Broken_Hippo]

I've been mostly vegetarian for over 3 years now. I eat fish once every week or two and that is becoming less and less. (I rarely ate fish before that). I had been cutting down on meat previously, then got married to someone that doesn't eat it.

First off, realize that it may or may not ease your hypertension. After all, part of that is simple genetics. For me, the main health benefit is digestive - I don't have a gall bladder and meat doesn't bode well with my system. I do, overall, feel better - which Im sure is part diet and part "exercise" (I walk for transportation most times). In other words, have realistic expectations.

Part of the reason I've not considered being vegan is because 1) Too much work for my lifestyle, and severely limits food options that I really like. 2) It seems to me it takes a good deal of knowledge about health 3) I don't like taking vitamin supplements (B12 being one of those that is difficult). So long as none of this bothers you you'll be fine.

But I do recommend keeping dairy, eggs, and cheese upfront. It will help the transition. I didn't think mine was that bad as I had just moved countries - but still missed a few foods, especially at holidays.

You might find it takes a bit of getting used to the different tastes and textures. It is actually easier to keep up once you get adjusted to the diet.Consider fake meats for texture variance, but be forewarned that they don't really taste like meat. Yet, I'd not suggest eating them daily. For "burgers" and "meatballs", I suggest learning to make your own.

If you don't cook much now, learn to do so. Invest in different spices and explore foods from different cultures. You might have to teach yourself to like different foods - so if you don't like legumes and lentils and the like, you'll need to adjust. It is possible with many things given some time.

I fully suggest buying some varied cookbooks instead of relying solely on the internet for recipies. If anything, there is usually good information in some of them and they make your searches better.

And that's all I can think of now.

[dn2k]

I'm vegetarian but I've spent a couple years as vegan when I was in my 20.

One day (I was 18, now I'm 40) I've decided to start choosing the vegetarian option whenever its available, after few days I realized that I was already vegetarian.

Being vegan is a completely different thing though, it require time, planning, knowledge and partecipation by the people around you. It can easily become a problem for everybody (not just you) and if you want your decision to be sustainable you don't want it. So my suggestion is to be smart, don't overdo, eventually start choosing the vegan option whenever is available or you have control on the meal preparation.

[iMarv]

My girlfriend is vegan and I am vegetarian. I am vegetarian for 3/4 of a year now and slowly start to replace all animal based products. The best help for me is to have someone I can rely on (like my girlfriend). Sharing food with someone who already is vegan helped me to get the right feeling for it and made me experience a lot of options food wise. Ultimatively I am vegetarian because living with my girlfriend showed me that I can eat tasty stuff without having to kill or abuse animals

[beerbajay]

I've been vegan for over 15 years. While a vegan diet is generally more healthy than the standard American diet, there are many healthy (easier) diets than veganism. Basically (imho), veganism is only compelling for ethical reasons.

Eating a vegan diet has however never been easier, especially if you live in a major American city; there is wide availability of reasonable replacement products, vegan options at restaurants, plus a general awareness of what veganism is with less of the reactionary responses that you might have gotten years ago.

How to become vegan? Just start slow; you don't have to do everything at once, learn to replace your standard dishes and ingredients one at a time.

Harder: how to stay vegan? Recognize that you can never be completely sure about ingredients and that trace amounts of animal products don't present any ethical issues. Be willing to eat out and chance some milk or eggs a dish, especially when dining with others. Veganism shouldn't be about making your own life an unlivable burden but about reducing harm.

[ciconia]

I switched to a vegan diet out of ideology, not health issues, so I didn't really plan how to do it. I just eat plenty of vegetables, fruit, and all kinds of beans or lentils. I think cooking fresh meals (instead of eating out or eating pre-cooked food) has a lot to do with it.

Basically, just listen to your body. I don't take any vitamins and I'm reasonably fit.

[fahrradflucht]

So where does your B12 come from?

[iMarv]

Either you get it from pills yourself, or (if not vegan) the animals will be injected with it. Either way, there is no perfect solution to fill up your B12 needs

[m_mueller]

That's only true for anti biotics infested farm animals though. Either way if you go for a vegan diet you have to keep up with B12. Don't fall for the naturalistic fallacy ("if I eat fresh and 'natural' it will all be fine").

[Mz]

Start by just eating less meat and more "sides," like vegetables, at meals. If you eat a lot of overcooked ("Southern style") veggies as sides, expose yourself to stirfries, shishkebab, lightly grilled and other preparations that help preserve the nutrient value. Raw is also good. Learn to eat more fresh produce.

As you improve the nutrional value of the non meat items in your diet, meat will matter less to you.

Diet for a Small Planet is a good source of info. Protein complementarity can help satisfy your hunger. On the upside, most traditional vegetarian diets already practice that. She eventually concluded it isn't hard as her first edition made it sound. But it was useful to me to know some of the nutritional science behind it.

You do not necessarily need to go vegan. Cutting back on meat and eating cleaner meats (Kosher, grass fed, organic, etc) may resolve your health issue with less of a burden in terms of making extreme changes, trying to maintain it, etc.

Best.

[zer00eyz]

Your going to have to learn how to cook, and cook well. There is no way around it.

Cooking is a lot like programing, there are general concepts and techniques (functions, algorithms) that translate across all (most) cuisines (that are akin to languages)

Things that will make your life better:

A good set of knives (paring and chefs), learn to sharpen them, and hone them.

A decent set of non stick pans (large and small) these are disposable, the coating always comes off, buy cheep ones (not too cheep) and replace often.

A few pots, and some pans for the oven, a large one for the stove top (stainless for easy cleaning).

Good cutting boards- plastic, flat ones -- to extend the life of your knives.

With tools in hand you need to get some skills, and the best way to do this at home is to master a single dish. Read every recipe you can find, take note of the differences, pay attention to how your cooking it, don't be afraid to turn the heat up or down as you prepare things. The one sin that most people commit is only using the high setting on the microwave and the stove top!

Take copious notes every time you make the dish, what did you change, time/heat/fat/ingredients -- at some point your going to have a perfect version. Only then should you branch out and master another dish. Make sure it is the same style of cooking (Italian, Chinese, Mexican etc...)

Being vegan is hard, but if your willing to eat from every culture you can get by, and almost every culture has things that are accidentally vegan, falafel being a great example!

I can't recommend enough the site http://www.seriouseats.com as they feature quite a few tasty vegan and vegetarian recipes. Since I already brought up falafel, you should read their breakdown on it, and try the recipe: http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/03/the-food-lab-vegan-experi...

Your also going to want to learn about Seitan, aka wheat gluten. As far as meat replacements go, it is tops, but making it is an exercise in endurance. Real food daily has the best recipe for someone who is going to attempt to do this at home, they have a cookbook that you can get the recipe from, and is a worth while investment.

[joeclark77]

I just have to recommend this (humor) video by JP Sears: https://youtu.be/Kvdf6e8birI

He's got a whole series like this. Hope it entertains.

[paulcole]

The great thing about nutrition is that no matter what diet you want to try, you can find a quack willing to endorse it as a healthy option.

The truth about nutrition is that it's incredibly complex, difficult to study, and there are virtually no reliable sources who aren't pushing their own agenda.

If you want to eat vegan, by all means go for it (I'm vegan myself), but you're deluding yourself to think that there's something magical about a "vegan diet"-- which by the way can contain oreos, cracker jacks, hershey's syrup, and any number of other healthy foods.

[westvaflamer]

I was a vegan for five years. I was also into bodybuilding for a couple of years. For unrelated reasons(?), I have leaky gut now.

What I've learned is: fasting is good for you. Fatty meat and seafood is good for you. Mushrooms are good for you.

Root type veggies are the best, except for potatoes. Fuck you potatoes I miss you. Avoid juice and sofa, just eat fruit.

Dairy, eggs, and grains can be a grey area. They are likely best in moderation even if you seem to tolerate them well.

Put a shot of apple cider vinegar in a glass of water erreyday

Most importantly listen to your body

[debacle]

What's the cider vinegar for?

[westvaflamer]

It kills (in small dosages) bacteria/fungus/viruses and is well tolerated. Try some in a glass of water next time you get sick.

[debacle]

I have actually been drinking it for a while to help with a GI issue, was wondering why you drink it. Thanks for the input!

[pvaldes]

Drinking vinegar is a well known "get slim faster" myth. Nocive at long term.

Vinegar is caustic to tissues, can increase the probability of having dangerous inner bleeding episodes and will damage quickly your tooth enamel if you drink it each day. Some people had died by this practice, still popular among anorectic people because bleeding regularly leads to anaemia and weight lose.

[fred_is_fred]

nocive?

[thorin]

This book may be of interest although not 100% vegan, the introduction in particular is quite inspiring

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Happy-Pear-Healthy-Delicious-Change...

[andymoe]

Go buy the "eat to live cookbook" and eat the stuff in there. Eat as much as you want as long as it's in the book. The extreme is not for me right now (mostly have to prioritize shopping and cooking time) and it takes a few weeks to get used to but the food is good and healthy.

[feider]

Thanks for the tip! Looks just like a thing I need atm.

[arvind1508]

Find Indian or Jain food! It's generally pretty tasty and not all that difficult to find.

[feverzsj]

if west foods do no good to you, try east foods. East Asia diet, especially China/Japan, is considered most healthful.

[werber]

foodgawker.com and filter by vegan, that helped me a lot

[atomical]

Why can't you become a vegan now by not consuming animal products?

[scaryspooky]

Because it's easy to substitute carbs for animal products and you wind up incredibly unhealthy but "vegan." Big diet changes do take some planning and effort in order to ensure you are eating in a physically sustainable manner.

[atomical]

That's a two second google search though. It can start with legumes, beans, rice, fruit, and vegetables.

[scaryspooky]

You can down vote me if you want, but I'm telling you why most people should ask and map out a real strategy. Not just rely on a "2 second Google search" -- most people have a poor understanding of a good diet and health education is rarely offered as a mandatory class. A "2 second Google search" will lead people down a very bad road.