Ask HN: How to become a more powerful man?

[manwannabe]

Hello Men & Women,

I'm 35 years old software engineer, with excellent professional accomplishments, several qualities, ok but not great looks, a handful of true friends, and a few past relationships, usually met in dancing clubs. I recently got dumped after a one year relationship, based on "I like you, but I don't love you". The only feedback I've got was not being man enough.

For example, I usually avoid conflicts (I got beaten often as a kid), of any kind. Two months ago I started going to self-defense classes, which I love. Another example, even though I go only for beautiful women (maybe because I don't consider myself alone beautiful), when I'm in a relationship I feel insecure that she really likes me.

How do you manage / What activities do you do that boost your manly power and confidence, especially with other Men? I'm not looking for stuff like sky-diving or crazy risk takings.

Really appreciate any advice, or books/articles recommendations (e.g. No more mr Nice Guy, by Robert A. Glover) Thanks

[noir_lord]

I'll tell you the advice my grandfather gave me growing up, he was my strongest male role model :-

Be confident not arrogant.

Stand your ground when you think you are right and admit immediately when you are wrong.

If you don't know say you don't know.

Don't allow anyone to treat you worse than you'd treat them and the inverse treat others how you'd like be to treated.

It's easier to stay in shape than to get back into shape (having not listened to this one, getting back in shape was a challenge).

Never go to bed angry, if something is bothering you get it out and dealt with.

No matter how good you are at something there is always someone better, find them and learn from them (he was a master shipwright then a master carpenter, he spent a lifetime working with wood and would still admit the old masters where better, I couldn't tell the difference but he could).

Never be afraid to ask for help and offer if it is asked for.

When you look back it's better to have tried and failed than not tried.

and my personal favourite "Noone ever asked for 'I wish I'd worked more' on their headstone".

[edoceo]

Sounds like my old man. All good advice.

[marymkearney]

The only feedback I've got was not being man enough

That's a seriously mean, low-class, gut-punch thing to say to someone you're breaking up with. You're WAY better off, not hanging around people who can say things like this. You sound like a really nice, plenty-manly person already. What a bunch of crap.

However - when humans hear an insult like that - our lizard-brain goes into overdrive, trying to "fix" what some jerk said was "wrong" with us. It's just the way we're wired. Old lizard-brain puts us in an obsessive loop, trying to prove that "we're not what they said." And it's usually some cheap generic insult like stupid, lazy, ugly, fat, never amount to anything, or, yes, "not man enough."

Here's a question that can help break that loop - what do YOU like to do? What activities make you feel stronger, healthier, happier, and more centered inside yourself?

That is where true power and, yes, "manliness" resides. Being around mean, abusive, or violent people, can obliterate any idea of what your own preferences and interests might be. It can take some trial and error to figure it out.

I'm personally not attracted to "manly" men. I find that sh*t tiresome. I like guys who are kind, affectionate, respectful, and optimistic. Those qualities say "manly" to me.

Edited to add: Having a variety of skills and competencies IS super attractive. Being able to make things, do things, fix things, whether it's benching 300, writing clean code, or cooking dinner. So is taking responsibility for your stuff and not whining.

HTH.

[manwannabe]

It does, especially the edit. Thank you

[marymkearney]

You're most welcome

[briHass]

It is said enough to be a cliche at this point, but heavy weight lifting. Having a fit, well-muscled physique will dramatically improve how other men view/treat you. It seems silly, but the evolutionary hard wiring of size/strength=powerful is still present in social interactions.

I'm your age, and this becomes even more valuable and pronounced at a time when many other guys are letting themselves go. By being fit, you demonstrate that you have discipline and the ability to stick to something physically difficult.

Not to mention the internal, mental benefits of challenging yourself physically. My time under the bar has become my meditation...a way to get out of my head. Put more poetically by Henry Rollins:

"The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds."

http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/strength-articles/iron-henry...

[threesixandnine]

I just don't give a fuck about the world and other people. In a way that I don't want to know what they do and what they have.

The feedback you got of not being man enough was just compensation for that other person not being human enough.

Screw her and all the other who think of you that way. You are a software engineer. That probably means you are smarter than most people on this world. They respect and are scared of you and your knowledge. That's why some try and put you down.

Go and earn even more money until you can say "Fuck You" to all. Cherry-Pussycat that will praise and adore you will come eventually.

Wish you the best.

[awwx]

I wouldn't latch too strongly onto not being "man" enough. Your partners can tell there's a problem, but aren't sure how to articulate it, and "man enough" is as close as they know how to describe it.

You have behaviors which you learned as a child in response to the situation you found yourself in at the time, and those behavior patterns such as conflict avoidance which served you well at the time (or at least were the best that a child could come up with), no longer serve you well as an adult.

Thus rather than saying "man enough", I think a better description would be not "adult enough", in that particular area of conflict resolution.

I suspect you feel insecure about whether your partner likes you because this pattern of conflict avoidance may mean you haven't tested prospective partners while dating by showing them the real you and seeing whether they like that or not.

The way to build confidence is to address the area where you are weak by learning and practicing in that area until you are good at it, and then you will automatically have confidence about it. E.g. if you don't have confidence that you can ride a bicycle well, the solution isn't to pump up your confidence by boosting your manly power, the solution is to practice riding a bicycle until you are good enough at it, and then you'll feel confident about riding bicycles.

Thus I suggest your first priority should be to study and practice effective conflict resolution, asking for what you want, being assertive about things you care about, setting strong boundaries, etc., ideally in an experiential setting where you can practice interactions rather than just reading about it.

Then I think you'll find that women will find you already manly. Confidence is sexy. Not the fake confidence of boosting yourself up to appear confident while ignoring problems, but the true confidence of being able to say, "yup, I know how to handle this".

[manwannabe]

Wow, excellent insight!

[codegeek]

"especially with other Men", "I feel insecure that she really likes me"

This is the problem. You don't have confidence in yourself. You care too much about what others think of you.

To become a powerful man, stop worrying about what others think of you. I mean really stop worrying. Do what you have to do for YOURSELF.

Self defense class is a good idea. It might boost your physical and mental strength. Working out is also a good idea. Go do some chores around the house/apartment as well on a regular basis. For some weird reason, whenever I mow my lawn, I feel great and manly :)

Most importantly, believe in yourself. Tell yourself that YOU matter not just to others, but yourself. Love yourself. Be selfish. If others don't like you for who you are, then ignore them. Remember, be nice to people but don't be a doormat. If you believe in something, then stick to it (well unless it is illegal of course).

Read "The Virtue of Selfishness" by Ayn Rand.

[uR1isatatanano]

At any rate please don't go down the path of self-proclaimed "life coaches" telling you that "you got to be the Alpha Male". The world has enough jerks already.

In my opinion you need better feedback (more precise, possibly more honest) before you start making changes based on it.

Do you yourself feel you want to change the conflict avoidance pattern you're describing, confidence in social settings, etcetera? If you do, I strongly suggest you to have a look at coherence therapy and consider if it goes well with your beliefs and values. That or some closely related approach is probably the fastest effective way get an authentic change.

I'll join in with the bodybuilding recommendations too, but that's for a largely different set of effects.

[manwannabe]

Thanks!

[uR1isatatanano]

My pleasure.

[manibatra]

In my opinion its more about being comfortable in your own skin.

It is ok to have insecurities. Everyone does. I am sure there are a tonne of women out there that would love you for who you are.

"Especially with other Men" sounds like you are trying to compete too much with other guys at least in your head. So stop trying to do things just so that you can "pound your chest".

For me reading books boosts my "manly power and confidence" and my girlfriend loves me for it. I have a mighty phobia of bugs so she is in charge of taking care of that. I guess she is the "man" of the house.

Point being don't beat yourself too much over it just because one girl didn't love you and told you that. It is OK and very very common.

[manwannabe]

Thanks for sharing

[wikvaya]

You cannot acquire what you are looking for; you can only cultivate it and you need to interact with other people for that to happen. Unconditional love for yourself and the world around you is a quality that transcends the masculine or feminine.

There is no shame in avoiding conflict. Learn to love yourself consider yourself an accomplishment. Express yourself and share in this experience with the rest of your fellow travellers.

Ride the waves my friend and make your peace with the unknown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrT_0J6m6y8

[teilo]

I can highly recommend F * ck Feelings:

http://www.amazon.com/Feelings-Practical-Managing-Impossible...

And here's my personal advice: There are women who will tell you that they hate the manly types. However, by this they usually mean all the bravado-macho disingenuous stuff. Ignore those objections. You will go off the rails if you take them seriously. Bravado and macho is just fine so long as it is sincere and rooted in respect for women as women. (If this brings on the down-votes please note that I don't care.)

But it may not be a part of your personality. Men who avoid conflict usually do so because it is not in their emotional makeup to do otherwise. They are driven by fear of rejection, and do not want to take the lead in a relationship, and often do not know how. This is becoming more and more common as men in our society are more and more feminized. (See parenthetical note above.)

The good news is that you can change, but it takes time. A lot of time. How you react is based upon how you think. But changing how you think, counterintuitively, is most effectively done by changing what you do, your personal habits. It is like teaching your children to say "please" and "thank you." Does this in itself make them grateful? No, but instills a habit of gratitude that guides their thinking. By acting grateful they become grateful.

[manwannabe]

The description sounds great, thanks!

[stray]

Hey, don't knock skydiving -- Life is never simpler than it is in freefall with 6 seconds till impact.

The way I see it, you're presenting two distinct but related problems.

The first is that you're choosing romantic partners poorly. And this is just a hunch -- but I think you're choosing women not because you are attracted to them but because you think other people will be.

Because if a beautiful woman has chosen you, it is proof that you have value as a man. In other words, the drive to become romantically entangled with beautiful women is more about insecurity than anything else.

And women can smell insecurity like shit on a shoe.

Of course you feel insecure that she really likes you -- because you don't actually like her. What you like is that a high value woman is validating your very existence.

Which leads me to the second problem. You're deriving your sense of your own worth from other people.

And it's impossible to be consistently happy when other people have control of your happiness.

When a woman tells you you're not being man enough -- she's giving you a precious gift -- once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

You're probably not very decisive. Women like to be able to make decisions big and small -- but they hate hate hate to have to be the one to make decisions.

You absolutely must take that burden off their shoulders. So next time your partner asks where you want to go for dinner -- immediately make a decision and answer. Then be prepared to negotiate because she probably had something in mind when she asked the question in the first place.

And they pay very close attention to where you fall in the pecking order among other men. So if you want to be "man enough" you've got to face other men with confidence and courage (I don't mean fighting -- that's the refuge of the tragically insecure). A book that might be helpful in this area is "the way of the superior man".

You can't shrink from conflict. You have to face it head on and deal with it gently. You see, it is only possible to be gentle if you're powerful. Otherwise, it's just weakness. And this world absolutely will not abide you being weak. You're not allowed.

A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for. And likewise, we men are meant to have uncomfortable lives. A man is safe when he avoids conflicts, but that's not what men are for.

hth

[manwannabe]

Straight to the point... Thanks so much

[Red_Tarsius]

Read and practice No More Mr. Nice Guy. That book was a true eye opener. Get into a weight lifting program (with a coach, NOT by yourself), it feels great and it gives you a long term goal outside the dev bubble.

> When I'm in a relationship I feel insecure that she really likes me.

You shouldn't feel that way if she already chose you.

[jameskilton]

Trying to change yourself to please others will never, ever work. There will always be something "wrong" with you and you will never be confident or content with yourself, and as others have said here, that's a very underhanded thing to say to anyone. Such statements provide no actual feedback. It hurts, but you have to let that slide and move on.

You need to learn how to accept and be confident in who you are. You must not be defined by others, you are defined by you. Your likes, dislikes, etc are yours and yours alone, and letting other people dictate these for you is the path down depression, loneliness, and insecurity.

One specific piece of advice that I haven't seen others mention here is your statement about avoiding conflict. It's always a terrible idea to avoid any conflict, because ignoring and pushing issues down will always lead to those issues exploding at the worst possible moment, doing the most damage.

I was also bullied a ton as a child, so I fully understand the sentiment. The key here is communication. When you are hurt, when you are concerned, when you have questions, voice them! Talk to people! Talk to your partner. Talk to your friends. Let people know that you are dealing with something internally. The earlier you bring up potential problems, the quicker, and better, they can be resolved before they end up as a full blown conflict.

I'll admit, this is very hard to do in a society that promotes hard, emotionless shells in men. Emotion is what makes us human. To deny that you have emotions is to deny not only who you are but you are denying who you are to others as well. What you will quickly find out is that everyone deals with the same kind of issues, and working through them together is how you start to be comfortable and confident in yourself.

One question I'd love for you to answer for yourself is why do you feel that "only going for beautiful women" is directly correlated to that person liking you, or that it's important in a relationship at all? Conversely, why should that person like you if you don't feel that you are as attractive? What is it you're trying to accomplish? Are you looking for a deep, long-lasting friendship and intimate relationship with someone? Are you looking for someone you can show off to others as a form of personal validation? Something else?

I would highly recommend being able to answer these questions, and being confident in your answers, before diving back into the dating scene again, or you will probably end up in the same location, wondering why it went south again.

[marymkearney]

Yeah, this. A lot of wise, learned-it-the-hard-way advice here.

Growing up with bullying and beatings, kinda wires your adult brain to seek out relationships with controlling people. That's its comfort zone, it doesn't know how else to be in the world.

One way to start rewiring, is to figure out what YOU want in a partner. I don't mean looks, but qualities and values and behaviors. Assume you had a relationship with a beauty - how would you want that beauty to ACT, toward you and toward others?

Sadly, physical perfection is a really inefficient criterion for your primary sort. It's fun for about a week ... but then you're stuck with whatever random stranger is behind the mask.

Could be that your manliness is just fine, but your picker needs a tune-up.

[manwannabe]

Good questions & advice, thanks so much

[niveus]

I think your main problem here is that you're too worried about what other people think of you. Does it really matter that some guys don't think you're that manly? Why do you need their validation?

[manwannabe]

I don't need validation. I need to stop behaving weak in some situations, and be natural at it.

[meira]

You look for validation, and not having enough makes you think that you're weak, and probably this is your natural behavior. You're not going to overcome it with tricks. But you probably took the first step admitting it.

[onion2k]

I would really recommend reading "How to Live: A Life of Montaigne" by Sarah Bakewell, "The Art of Happiness: A Handbook for Living" by the Dalai Lama, and "The Consolations of Philosophy" by Alain De Botton.

They're not about being a "powerful man." All three are about the philosophy of leading a life that makes you happy without compromising the way you live in order to fit in with the notions and judgements of others.

[smt88]

Go to therapy. Date better women.

[onecooldev24]

I would suggest focus on one goal, And avoid thoughts the bring you down. Not all of your thoughts are true.

[lwhalen]

Self defense/personal fitness is a great start. May I add 'delete Facebook' and 'learn Game' to the list. The latter can be incendiary in certain circles (this one, for instance), but with my sample size of '1' I can attest that it really, truly works.

[manwannabe]

'learn Game' -- as in pickup game? e.g. the game book by Neil S

[lwhalen]

Yup. "The Game Book" took quite a few liberties to write a better story, I suggest checking out books/lectures by a guy named Mystery.

[mindcrash]

Read "Gorilla Mindset" by Mike Cernovich:

http://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Mindset-Mike-Cernovich-ebook/d...

You will thank me later.

[alashley]

> "The only feedback I've got was not being man enough"

That's just like, her opinion man.

[alashley]

Also, you don't need to go about changing yourself to match someone's arbitrary ideals. If you keep trying to change things about yourself in response to what people say, you'll never be happy and you'll never run out of people to try to please.

As another posted mentioned, some of these cheap, generic insults like "you're not enough of $x" are absolutely baseless and shortsighted. A lot of them are based on preconceived notions that this person holds for reasons unknown to even them.

I think the important thing is to know who you are and find people who appreciate what it is that you bring to the table. Try to to get stuck on casual insults, move on and keep dating/meeting people. The only thing worth working towards in life is becoming an increasingly considerate human being.

[J-dawg]

Anyone know why this thread has disappeared from the front page of 'Ask HN'?

Right now there are posts on the front page of 'Ask HN' which are both older than this post and have fewer points.

[drwl]

What is it that you're looking for? I believe there's a clear difference between being more manly and having better relationships, though I imagine there's a correlation.

[kleer001]

> boost your manly power and confidence

Mainly self-talk. Like "I'm the real catch here, not her." or "I've done X, Y, Z, and that's pretty rare. I'm f-n awesome."

[ddorian43]

Can you explain more the self-defense class ? It may be a bullshido.

[akulbe]

Two books...

Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill

How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie

[awwx]

http://mankindproject.org

[marymkearney]

This looks awesome. Thanks for sharing.