Ask HN: Rest Doesn't Help with Burnout

[gidor]

I think I might be suffering from burnout.

I experienced stress many times during my career. First in grad school, then at work. Every time after some rest my natural curiosity returned, I wanted to learn something new, and start over on a new project.

This time is different. Just before covid I moved to a country where I don't speak the language. The unexpected isolation during lockdowns was very tough on me. I got some bad rating during performance reviews and worked extra hard to recover (it's been over a year since this happened). I also had a drinking problem, which got much worse during covid, but I have been sober for a few months already.

All my interest in work is lost and it's not coming back despite almost 3 months of rest. I work onsite, but my team is remote, which makes it hard to develop any friendships at work.

Do you have any advice how to proceed in this situation? The main issue is that long rest is not helping. If it matters, I'm almost 40.

[avinoth]

I could relate at multiple levels.

I suffered from series of burnout, bordering depression, for the longest of time without even realizing I'm going through one. When I lost the will to work, I attributed it to the work isn't interesting and took on more side projects to "keep it interesting". When that didn't work, I thought I just lost it and this is how long it's supposed to last.

I did every commonly suggested things, exercised very regularly, kept myself fit, quit smoking (2 years now), didn't drink, solo travel, etc., but nothing really resolved it completely. (thinking back now, maybe it's those things that kept everything at bay)

For me what finally moved the needle noticeably was when I started introspecting consistently (i do with everyday notes). I strived to have clear reasonings for why i do what i do, taking a third person view on certain emotions and diagonsing/troubleshooting it as you would a bug. This had led me to make several changes in my life/career sever of which i don't think i would've done otherwise.

I don't believe there is one solution fits all nor one solution for everything. I arrived at this after attempting all of these above and even I can't say for sure if it is THE ONE thing that solved, most likely it's a combination of everything else as well.

Unfortunately what works for you can only be figured out by you and only by doing it can you tell if it's the one. Keep iterating.

[earth-adventure]

Your words are like an epiphany.

[ActorNightly]

If you turned to alcohol in the first place, it pretty much means you don't have the mental machinery in your personality to deal with adversity, which is pretty much the root cause of your (and many other people's) problems.

General happiness and fulfilment in life doesn't come from comfort, it comes from being able to being able to deal with problems effectively instead of stressing out about them or avoiding them.

The only real way to get past it is to retrain your way of thinking, which requires professional help, behavioral therapy, and possibly even psychedelics since you have had 20+ years of conditioning yourself to be the way you are now.

[mock-possum]

> General happiness and fulfilment in life doesn't come from comfort, it comes from being able to being able to deal with problems effectively instead of stressing out about them or avoiding them.

Fucking PREACH dude

[_8j50]

> ...which requires professional help, behavioral therapy, and possibly even psychedelics since you have had 20+ years of conditioning yourself to be the way you are now.

Why? Sounds like marketing propaganda from the psychoanalysis industry.

> .... General happiness and fulfilment in life

Are not related to being burned out and are overrated.

To OP: Do something else with your time, keep trying till something works out. Long time ago, I took a vacation from work that I have been enduring severe stress daily for over a year, when I got back to work it was too much.

Find something you enjoy doing and keep doing that.

[farseer]

Retraining your way of thinking only goes half way. You have to reduce the overall stress in your life, that means perhaps changing your line of work.

[taurath]

This gives me big yikes. There may not be anything wrong with their thinking, or a defect in their “mental machinery” or personality. Humans are more complex than that. It’s completely reductive of the value people have.

[GianFabien]

Burnout due to different sources needs different fixes.

I get the impression that you are struggling with isolation. Not speaking the language is a huge barrier to everyday interactions. Although you work onsite, your team is remote, which in effect is the same as you still working remote too.

Maybe this suggestion comes too late, but you could have taken a holiday back home. Reconnecting with what is familiar can ease hidden anxieties. Another factor might be that you are still having withdrawal effects from having stopped drinking.

Maybe a thorough medical check-up is needed to confirm that you haven't got some sort of underlying cause for your condition. Diet and exercise are other things to consider as well.

[gidor]

I spent over a month with my family recently and it hasn't helped this time.

I don't think withdrawal is an issue. I drastically cut down my drinking 9 months ago and since 4 months I'm 100% sober. Frankly, I expected more from sobriety.

[ipaddr]

Welcome to sobriety where you get to see those problems that you were ignoring before. Now you have to put in effort and face the reasons why you started drinking

You've built no support system and relied on your job as your social outlet/life. One bad review and it knocks you to the core. You've moved to a country where you don't speak the language and you haven't picked it up after 9+ months.

Why did you move? For money? A career? Lifestyle change? Please family? Does the original the reasons matter anymore?

If everyone is remote could you move to another country where the language is the same?

I would focus on building a lifestyle outside of work. Join an online game / join a team

[gidor]

Thank you! I think I am/was in a vicious circle where work is taking all my energy that I need to fix my private life, and the deficiency of my private life hurts me at work.

[GartzenDeHaes]

I'd don't have an answer, but FWIW here's a few points from my own experience:

0. You can't force your brain to re-engage and the harder you try the worse it gets.

1. Good job staying sober. To me, drinking seemed to make the burnout worse.

2. Move your body to change your mind. Exercise seems to help. I took up cycling and it helps to get my mind and body engaged an activity that doesn't involve intense concentration or a computer.

Good luck!

[ineedausername]

+1 for using zero index

[perceptronas]

Have you considered changing jobs? Bad performance reviews 'never' go away. You also probably view your work negatively as it caused you to crunch for extended amount of time. By changing workplace you could also potentially open yourself to possibility of developing new friendships at work. Also, urgency feeling from changing work could revive some interest in work.

Whatever you do, good luck.

[hayst4ck]

Do you feel that if someone really knew you, they wouldn't like you? Do you feel like you are different? Have you felt that there is definitely something wrong with you your whole life?

If those resonate with you, check out Childhood Emotional Neglect. There's a really good book called "Running on Empty: Overcoming your Childhood Emotional Neglect".

If you're moving countries that means you probably don't have strong roots or connections with people, and if you're seeking chemical escape, then you probably have a lot of things you are escaping from and not a lot of good things that give you good feelings.

The bad news is that if my questions hit, you're probably gonna need to seek out professional help.

The really bad news is that it's going to get worse before it gets better. It sounds like you can barely sustain work, and clawing out of an emotional hole takes work and takes choosing more pain, when you're already in pain.

[natecruft]

What do you mean by “rest”? Recovery requires processing the cognitive/emotional complexities that cause the burnout. Sometimes some improvement happens intuitively: you avoid the problem for a while, aka rest or holiday or sabbatical, re-discover the core interest(s), and re-approach the old situation from a new perspective. That usually leaves some old, irrational aversions lingering around, but it shows the healthy pattern: find your safety and build from there. Social isolation is a deeper, more profound frustration than professional struggles, so this time will be harder and deeper, but therefore more formative once you reach the other side. This is the realm of religiosity, not mere psychology; not that I recommend looking for a religious answer, but that I suggest you give the problem that degree of respect, contemplative optimism, and patience.

[TheAlchemist]

I think it's much more common than you think - especially since Covid. You're definitely not alone - I can certainly relate to some aspects, more than I would like.

I have some observations:

- you indicate in the comments that you expected more from sobriety. We all do - I was in a similar situation as you. Think of it as a building block - being sober, in itself is not a sufficient condition, but it's definitely a necessary one. And frankly, congratulations to you - it's already a huge achievement.

- why did you move to a country where you don't speak the language ?

- It seems to me, that you aim to do something meaningful, work with people etc. Well, as with alcohol, you need to answer yourself honestly some questions - one of which is why do you stay at this job ? It doesn't seem like there is a path to making friends there (team remote) and it's not interesting.

[FeistySkink]

I'm in a similar situation. Except I moved to a country where I do speak the language during COVID. I left my job due to a burnout last year and took some time to recover. I tried most of the usual HN advice. I do multiple different sports for years, don't drink, don't do drugs, eat healthy and sleep properly. And I try to engage with various social activities. Alas, none of these helps in any meaningful way. This is aggravated by the slowdown of the remote job market (there aren't many open roles where I'm at), and I feel on the verge of a complete breakdown most of the days. Being around the same age as you doesn't help.

[menshiki]

> I work onsite, but my team is remote, which makes it hard to develop any friendships at work.

I think this may be the core issue. You are in a new country with what it seems like not many opportunities to develop deeper connections. To me your conditions sounds more like adjustment disorder.

I was in a similar situation like you before and focusing on developing deep emotional connections with people around me helped tremendously. It's hard to be productive at work when there is little balance in one's personal life.

Also, do you actually like your job? What is your goal when it comes to this position? Would you be a happier person if you did something different? These are the question that you may consider.

[gidor]

After the experience I had at my job, I don't like it any more. Objectively speaking though, it's quite an interesting and pays really well (that's what made me stay). I don't have any goals in my career.

[musicale]

A job that pays well and occasionally exercises your brain sounds like a pretty good job to me.

Though I think Daniel Pink's book Drive said that people tend to be more satisfied at work when they have autonomy, a sense of purpose, and an opportunity for mastery, and that it can be worthwhile to try to find those things.

[heldrida]

Don’t drag yourself!

Maybe try to do some sports if you can? Forget about the age. If serves as inspiration, I’m 40 myself, I skateboard (park, street, rails), practice Muay Thai and football. You can try boxing, yoga, or whatever you feel like! It helps a lot! Your body will have to rest and recover differently.

I try to do other things apart from work, which unfortunately takes a lot of energy and I’m usually burnout, such as music and video production, including animation (drawing).

If the job is super boring and you can afford it, quit and find something else to do. The job market is quite complicated at the moment and there are a lot of time wasters during the recruitment process unfortunately.

[skitout]

- Taking local language courses helped me when I was abroad. I enjoyed it, it helped me to feel better in the country I was, and I met friends there (people more or less in similar situation than me)

- I met a lot of people and some friends working from a small co-working space (I picked one where I feel good)

- I enjoyed volunteering - doing something different than my work, and something useful- and it also helped me to meet friends

All this happened when I was not burnt-out, so my situation was clearly different, but just sharing just in case it can somehow be useful

[popularonion]

I’m about the same age and my situation feels similar to yours in many ways.

I was working remote and lost my job 3 months ago. I have very little desire to go back to work and I fully intend to take the rest of the year off.

It seems like some of my colleagues who got laid off are in the same boat, treating 2023 as a semi-retirement year and not really looking for a job.

I think your gut feeling is right and you went back to work too soon. Nobody here can tell you exactly what to do next, because that completely depends on how much money you have and so many other things.

[milesvp]

You may want to check out the healthy gamer youtube channel. He’s a psychiatrist who specializes in burnout. Seems to know his stuff best as I can tell. I’ve found I like when he geeks out on some of the physiological effects related to psychology, but you may benefit from some of his more general episodes on the topic of burnout.

[block_dagger]

Perhaps you need balance in your broader life to reignite your interest in technical work. Exercise frequently, adjust your diet, take an artistic hobby seriously, reach out to acquaintances in an effort to strengthen friendships.

[mindcrash]

You can only beat this thing if you move on to things which give you enough income to sustain your life BUT really make you happy.

I have learned that in practice the hard way.

[is_true]

You should ask a professional.

But I think you need social interaction, try to find something to do outside of work in a group.

I thought this was about Representational state transfer.

[msh]

Maybe its not burnout but depression which could be the reason rest is not working. My best advice would be to speak with a professional if possible.

[Pinegulf]

I'd suggest seeking professional help/evaluation. While HN may have very proficient people, health is something to take more seriously.

[gidor]

I asked a psychiatrist for help and I'm getting it, but HN helped me in the past.

[readonthegoapp]

prob need another 3 months at least.

if you can change jobs, at least tech, better.

lots of threads on here about burnout, with tons of advice, some of it good, much of it stupid, as usual.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

[liampulles]

Running helps me decompress. I also switched to a new programming language for my new job which helps to develop interest.

[raccoon38]

Do some none tech work like Uber. May be you will realize you like/dislike your tech work.

[ZYZ64738]

my advise: think about your diet and do yoga regularly. take this valuable time for yourself. i am pretty sure that after a while you will relize what is best for you in your situation which noone else will ever know. sendin my best wishes