[tst]

I'm also recovering from a depression which lasted for quite a while. It absolutely sucks because you think you're worthless, nobody loves you, you can't get anything right and the best would be if you just wouldn't exist anymore.

And on top of that you isolate yourself. I know how hard it was to ask for help therefore I want to show you some things which helped me:

- Realize that your depression is lying to you. It doesn't tell the truth. It makes you believe that something is logical even if it isn't.

- Read 'Feeling Good' - terrible title, great book. It will probably work better than average on the average HN reader because it takes a 'rational' approach to depression (cognitive-behavioral therapy). It helps you to recognize destructive thought patterns and how to deal with them.

- Garbage in, garbage out. What works for computers also works for your body. Yeah, you're a geek but you can eat some vegs instead of the 500th pizza. Also working out (or other sports) are pretty great.

- Long term: Therapy which tries to work on the root cause and not just at symptoms.

Finally, here's a rather extensive list with lectures, books, exercises, etc. which help dealing with depression [1]. Back when I was fed up with feeling crap I created a spreadsheet with the 8 activities and tracked those every day.

Note: Every person seem to react to differently. I read about people who improved a lot by meditating - on the other hand, it didn't work for me.

So, try some things out and don't give up. You can beat that liar in your head.

[0]: http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-Therapy/dp/03808...

[1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/getting_over_it/comments/1nd14u/the_...

PS: If you have any questions feel free to ask - if you want to send me a private one write at <username> @ panictank.net

[meh_master]

I've been depressed for over ten years, I'm currently thirty years old.

I left my job in January due to depression, though I didn't tell anyone. I haven't worked a day since then and am just living off savings as they dwindle. I haven't spoken to any of my former co-workers who were my only contacts in the Bay Area since I moved from the East Coast to work at a startup. I've spent all day every day numbing myself with weed, porn, mindless internet browsing, etc. I don't even code, every time I open up Xcode or Android Studio I just end up doing nothing. And I honestly just don't want to do anything.

The last time I went out socially was in January of this year and even that was just with my then co-workers. And over the past ten and fifteen years it hasn't been any different. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been out socially over the past ten years that wasn't work related (and while employed the number of times I went out with co-workers also number in the single digits).

The isolation is what kills me. I haven't had sex in several years and haven't had any intimate relationships in my entire life (the sex were just one nighters and nothing more, and I've never had a "best friend", not even in high school or middle school). Unlike a lot of people with depression, I don't have friends, family (all on East Coast), or girlfriends (I've never had one). I don't even talk with people online, not through FB, not anonymously on web forums or instant messaging. In the past week the only people I've talked to is the cashier at the local supermarket, and that was just to say I wanted a bag and say "thanks see ya later". In fact this is the first time I've written about depression online, I've only told a few people (my mom and a doctor) that I even have it.

I've had a hard time dealing with it. I'm trying to get into meditation and what not. But I mostly fear the effect of this extreme isolation. There's a lot of evidence that it kills your brain (literally).

I'm reading a book called "The mindful way through Depression". I bought it over two years ago and only started reading it two months ago. I'm still only halfway through. The worst part of depression is that it saps my energy to do anything, even when I do read the book I'll read several pages and not remember a thing of what I read.

Sorry about the wall of text if anyone reads this, but it's 5:46 AM and I'm not doing anything else. I haven't gone to sleep yet...I'm just mindlessly browsing the web (I discovered a new TV show earlier today and am marathoning it right now). Either way I still hold some optimism for the future.

[thr0waway1909]

I feel obliged to respond to this post since I've feel that you've basically described my life. I quit my (soul-crushing) job three months ago and plan on living off my savings until I manage to gather the energy to find another one (or to kill myself). I'm 29 and never had a girlfriend either. I feel utterly invisible to the opposite gender, as if there was some kind of unexplainable communication gap that I never managed to cross, while everyone else (including the countless couples of teenagers I see walking in the parks) just seems to have moved past that. For me this is the thing that kills me the most. I feel like I've wasted the best years in my life, and that because of that and missing out on some basic experiences that most people share, I feel extremely alienated from the rest of my peers. So I just fake it all. I lie about my life. I live like an impostor, and when someone is about to uncover that, I just run away or make up more excuses and lies.

I've got a few good friends, but they are far away. I've still got my family though, but I haven't told them about my depression. I actually have told no one except one friend, who was supportive but didn't really understand what I'm going through. I've been depressed for as long as I can remember, since I was a teenager I guess. Something like 10 years. I've also been thinking of suicide for years now, on a weekly, sometimes daily and hourly basis. The biggest problem is that I don't see the purpose of life. Most people will talk about family (children), career, religion... Things that don't work for me. I don't believe in any gods, I don't want any children (who would inevitably inherit my shitty genes) and my career is nowhere near where I would have wanted it to be, to the point that I was better off right out of college because I was mentally more apt then than now that I'm burnt out. (And lost almost all passion for programming)

I probably some form of ADD as well, because I've lost almost all ability to focus when trying to work on programming projects.

Right now I'm far away from home, taking holidays in the sun, and trying new hobbies. But nothing ever seems to stick (including meditation, which I've failed to pick up many times now). I've met people, but ultimately there is always a moment where I'm alone in a room and start wondering what is the point of going through all that. Life is ultimately absurd and we're all gonna die anyway.

Even writing this message feels utterly stupid. It's probably the worse answer that one could write to your message. Usually when I write these kind of messages, I tend to write them and immediately delete them because I feel so silly and pathetic. For once I'm gonna hit the reply button anyway.

[wbhart]

To both you and parent poster thanks for taking the time to write down your experiences. I used to completely dismiss people who had depression and anxiety, until I started having anxiety attacks myself. Now that I know how real they are, I instead feel like I want to study and understand the experiences of others and even ask questions (I will manage to restrain myself).

The fact is, technically minded people think about these conditions differently than others. We have the ability to be more detached, even from our own circumstances, and report our experiences without the mysticism and sentimentality. We also understand the placebo effect and evidence-based science, so we tend not to share endless anecdotes based on pseudoscientific potions and cures which are supposed to somehow magically solve the problem.

Therefore, I personally find your post hundreds of times more helpful than what I might find elsewhere. I also find blog posts (such as the linked article) from technically minded individuals on these issues, recounting their experiences, extremely insightful.

Although I've only seriously suffered from anxiety disorder, not depression, I can relate to a few things you write.

There were periods in my life (actually before the onset of my anxiety) where I couldn't see the point to life itself (I mean from a logical perspective; I didn't have suicidal thoughts). Actually, I had this from a very young age. I started off at age 4 with a passion for lego. But I quickly realised that I couldn't build a machine for doing real, useful work with this lego (it would break). And even if I did, what point would there be for me in building an excavator or a digger or motorcar that used the levers and pneumatics/hydraulics I was learning about with my lego? What purpose would I use the machine for? And even if I could answer that, what would I want to do that for, etc. So what was the real purpose in playing with lego?

I'm 38 and have never had a girlfriend! I live in hope. (The only thing I can recommend there is a dating website. I sure wish I'd discovered these when I was 29!!)

But when I was about 29/30 something strange happened that rewired my brain, seemingly all at once. All in the same year I suddenly became intensely interested in chess, scene (assembly) programming and a sport called martial arts tricking, after decades of not really taking all that much pleasure from anything. None of these things have any ultimate usefulness! And yet my entire mindset just suddenly flipped.

So what (scientifically speaking) happened to me? I've no idea, and I'd love to know!

Tricking stayed with me for 9 years. And even now I look back at it longingly. It has no ultimate purpose, but I miss it like crazy (there's no gym nearby where I can do it in my current location, and I'm getting a little old for it now). It's as useless as my childhood lego.

I don't want to suggest my experience has any immediate practical benefit for someone with depression. But I can definitely relate that what makes life enjoyable and livable, paradoxically, isn't necessarily something that gives it ultimate purpose.

I'm not suggesting I did something myself to change things. I just want to relate that even though I'm technically minded and fully understand what you mean by "life is ultimately absurd", this ultimately isn't an obstacle.

A king called Solomon apparently once wrote, "I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind." When I was 29, I definitely thought I was suffering from the "insanity of Solomon" (a little early I thought). But apparently, it turns out, life is meaningless. That just isn't the problem.

Obviously standard advice applies. Most people here (especially me) are not psychologists and if the depression and associated thoughts keep up, seek qualified help, if you haven't already. Psychologists should be able to help you root out contributing factors, help you isolate and shut down unproductive thought patterns/habits that exacerbate the problem, and psychiatrists can dispense medication which might give you time to reset and recover. At least these days they too are starting to pay attention to evidence based science!

[throwaway37337]

I've been where you are. For me the path out was exercise. Wake up and work out - every day, 7 days a week, first thing after you wake up. "Working out" can mean walking to the end of the block and back. And then you get to think, "Even if I do nothing else of value today, at least I worked out." Do that every day for a month, first thing. If you can ingrain that pattern in your brain, I promise you one block will become two and two will become four. And you will look at the crap you're about to put in your mouth and think, "this is not food." For me that was the path out. There's ways to overcome the women thing - really. And 30 is not too late, not even close to too late.

[thr0w4wy33]

I could have written something similar when I was in my late 20s.

My teenage years were filled with depression. My circle of friends consisted of a handful of people I knew from IRC. My 20s consisted of a string of failed business ventures. I was living at home. I had almost nothing in my bank account. I had very few friends and I would inevitably sabotage every friendship I had. I was overweight. I didn't have a girlfriend and had never even experienced a kiss. I lost a parent and then lost a step parent. I felt like the supposedly best years of my life were slipping through my fingers.

After being rejected by a girl I met online because of my weight/appearance, I decided that getting in shape would help. Eventually I was able to lose weight and I met a girl after attending a rare social event. I thought she was perfect and we hit it off but after our first date she rejected me in a very harsh way. I was devastated and decided to end my life.

I'll spare the details but I spent considerable time researching. I purchased the instrument of my demise. I wrote letters to the few people who I thought would care apologizing for my shortcomings.

Before I took what I believed would be the solution to my pain I took all of the money I had from a gig and went on a solo trip overseas. The first night I cried myself to sleep. I literally walked everywhere until the heels of my feet bled. I talked to some people I met and had a wonderful experience that reminded me good can enter your life in the most unexpected of ways and at unanticipated times. But most of my travels were in my mind.

My pain didn't end when I came back but I didn't end my life. Today I am in much better financial shape but I don't feel I have lived up to my potential and I'm still very much a procrastinator. I still don't have many friends. I have a girlfriend although anyone in a relationship can tell you they look easier than they are. There are days when I feel lost or like an impostor. I still have more regrets than I can count. I am currently mourning the loss a pet who I considered one of my best friends.

You're not silly or pathetic. I don't know what the purpose of life is either. Life is absurd and undeniably impermanent. I don't have any advice to give but if I could suggest one thing, it's that absurd, impermanent things aren't inherently worthless and incapable of providing happiness. "Nothing matters anyway" is as much an invitation to experiment with life and live it without worry or expectation as it is to give up on it.

[wbhart]

Human beings are wired to find intrinsic value in certain things. Art, music, puzzle solving, beauty, achievement, scientific knowledge, friendship, fine tasting food, travel experiences, charity work. Even life itself has some intrinsic value that we recognise. Ultimately none of these things has permanence and the pursuit of them all is absurd in some sense.

All of these are things that transcend our animal needs and desires. We value them not because of their ultimate usefulness or their needfulness, but because they have intrinsic value. Not ultimate value, but intrinsic value nonetheless.

Trying to fill your life with as many nice experiences as possible before you die only exaggerates the impermanence of our physical lives. And striving to "leave a legacy" for future generations can distract us from the intrinsic value of things that only we can experience and appreciate, and necessarily only in our lifetimes.

I'm absolutely desperate for the New Horizons spacecraft to finally arrive at Pluto next year. I'm going to look at every photo that thing sends back and be thrilled at having lived at precisely the right time to see it. And I'm going to keep looking and soaking it in until I am sick of that sucker. I'll read every article on it. Not because I think that it's going to have any meaning in the broader framework of my life (I'm not a planetary scientist), but because that will be an experience only people in my generation can have. To me, that rock will be beautiful, no matter how ugly and devoid of life it looks.

The same is true of a day's work. Any such day is probably meaningless. But at the end of it you can look at what you've done and derive satisfaction from it. Not permanent satisfaction, so that you don't have to do it all over again tomorrow. But real satisfaction that only you can experience.

Once I read a geology textbook, and learned about how the mountains are pushed up by continental shelves pushing together and worn down by erosion. Layers of sediment get uplifted. Earthquakes cause faults, and so on. After reading enough, I actually started to lose the sense of the beauty of mountains. All I saw was mechanical processes at work.

But this didn't last. Eventually, my innate sense of beauty captivated me again, so that when I look at mountains I am filled with wonder and a deep sense of awe. This despite the fact that I still know precisely how they got there, scientifically speaking.

I'm unsure whether the intrinsic value there is in the mountain itself or in my appreciation of it. But for that moment when I can actually visit a mountain, when I can actually have that experience, I appreciate that beauty.

But somehow, sitting around all day looking at photos of beautiful mountains, or even living right under one, isn't going to make me enjoy the rest of my life. The mountain is an experience I get to have irregularly. In this way, the intrinsic value of that experience catches me by surprise.

I even think that if I got on an aeroplane tomorrow to fly to a mountain to see it, I wouldn't be that affected by it. I'm sure we can do many things to increase our enjoyment of life, but I think that we have to be careful of believing that if we keep feeding experiences to ourselves we'll keep enjoying them. Treasured experiences can be very opportunistic. They depend on a happy coincidence of circumstances which I am uniquely able to appreciate at that time and place.

[mercer]

At least for me your message is very valuable, because the recognition in everything you say makes me feel less alone, or weird for that matter.

I quit my job just short of a year ago and took some time off. To some extent, it was helpful, because leading up to my quitting I noticed that I found it harder and harder to deal with even simple dilemma's or interpersonal issues. I felt myself steadily getting weaker, less resilient, and more isolated.

Leaning into that isolation, at first, helped. Having saved up some money I also didn't have to worry about, well, anything basically.

But at least in my case I feel I let it last a bit too long. The lack or purpose, even a 'stupid' purpose like showing up for a job I hated, ultimately made me feel terrified and the resulting existential 'depression' was possibly worse than barely-managed lifestyle I had before.

For the past few months I've started engaging again. I try not to ask myself too often what the 'point' is, but rather I try to dip my toes into different things, in the hope that I can find something that pulls me in so much that I stop dwelling on myself and 'big questions'.

I'm also considering a psychologist, even though for now I think I'm in an upward trajectory.

In the end, I've come to the (tentative) conclusion that my problem is not that I cannot find meaning, purpose, fulfillment or, well, happiness. Because in the end I believe nothing 'really' matters in some objective sense. And if I believe nothing matters, why would it surprise me that I cannot find something meaningful?

But that's not the issue at all. No matter how meaningless we think life might be, I've rarely met someone who truly feels that way too. We generally don't live with full awareness of our rational beliefs. And I myself too have gotten caught up in things that, until I reflect too much, feel intensely meaningful.

Rather, my problem, or at least one of my problems, is that my inability to handle the day to day realities and my attempts to 'fit in' (even while openly rejecting 'normalcy') have kept me from losing myself in whatever 'game' is challenging and fulfilling enough to not feel like a pointless game. As a result, not only am I stuck in a perpetual state of 'this is not meaningful, I need to reassess/fix/change/improve', and simultaneously a tremendous lack of experience with the mind-boggling variety of life games there are to play.

In fact, maybe an even bigger problem is that I have the arrogance to think that there is no game that can fool me.

I've found a lot of help in being around people who do not suffer from all that introspection. They seem to just randomly try things first, and only then concoct a story and meaning around it. And partly as a result of living in this way for a long time, they have actually figured out a lot of what makes them tick, and they found that 'game' that challenges them just enough to make them feel purposeful, but not so much that it overwhelms them.

And sometimes I think one good solution is to do more of that.

It's like I've gone through much of life trying to find that right partner without actually trying out relationships. The result is that I have spared myself the trouble (mostly) of broken hearts, mistakes, and terrible breakups, but I've also kept myself from actually figuring out what kind of relationship fulfills me. Because you can't really figure these things out without doing them.

I suppose mostly I'm just expressing my own process/issue in the hopes it helps someone feel less alone in their struggle. I don't think any of what I'm doing is necessarily a good prescription to anyone else.

Ultimately I find that at least one things that drags me out of depression is to focus on the trouble of others, or to swap stories. It doesn't solve things long-term, but I think it helps. The only thing I find worse than depression is feeling alone.

[akrymski]

This is going to sound silly, but have you tried bodybuilding? Not just running or hitting the gym once a week, but actually weight lifting? It works for me every time, and I think here's why:

- it releases endorphins - making you feel real happy just after the workout

- it increases your testosterone - making you more likely to do those "manly" things like approach a woman, or do something you've been previously afraid of.

- it makes you loose weight - making you more attractive to the opposite sex, which boosts your self esteem

- you'll see progress: depression is all about breaking with bad habits and progressing in something. as soon as you'll see progress - it will be easier to keep going, as you'll visualise the reward.

- you'll make new friends: I've made more friends in the gym than anywhere else I think

- you'll get the girls: sooner or later, once that muscle shows up, you'll get laid, and women will want to date you. The only better route to that is making a million bucks quick, but you're not mentally ready for that, so lay off the PC, go lift some weights until you're exhausted, sleep, and lift some more. Repeat until depression is gone.

PS Don't break anything. Get a proper book (I suggest Arnold's Bodybuilding Encyclopedia) and follow the rules.

[lolo_]

I get frustrated with advice like this - there have been periods where I've gone to the gym 5 times a week and had it have no affect on my emotional state whatsoever.

Moderate Depression is literally a different disease from severe depression. Don't assume what helps one will have the slightest affect on the other.

On the women thing - I lost huge amounts of weight after a massive diet and exercise regime and it... made no difference at all. I'm 5'5" therefore an untouchable as far as they're concerned (just google around on male height + dating if you don't believe me, I'm tired of arguing as to why this is the case people tend not to want to believe it.)

I think this side of things would make a difference with women, however, if you have no obvious flaws so for normal dudes it's applicable. But don't think it will necessarily have an impact on the depression. Severe depressives should see their doctor and try to get outside help.

[akrymski]

Obviously it's all personal, I'm just saying it helps me. I'm 5'7" and date models. Lots of bodybuilders are short.

Also, a lot of people confuse "going to the gym" with proper bodybuilding. There's a big difference, at any time the gym is 90% full of looser guys on the treadmill. Like with anything, to get proper results out of it you have to take it seriously, research, read books, maybe get a trainer to get you started. You'll only get out of it what you put in. Light jogging on the treadmill won't help much, and it's not just about extra weight. There's something about pumping iron at your lifting-limit in particular that releases endorphins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nZ1v96-veM

[seer]

I feel like I did nearly avert a situation much like you are describing. I was just falling into a pitfall of depression when a decision, made in a strange, drunken state changed my life forever. By the weirdest circumstance I went to a latin dance class. The combination of structured social contact, technicality and physical exercise did wonders for my self esteem. There's a certain meritocratic vibe with dancers where with just simple repetition and hacker mindset you can become quite good, and people will respect that however your physical appearance. You can make lots of really great friends in a short time. I think that's one of the greatest life hacks a depressed hacker can do. You learn to interact with people easily as there is a very clear framework on how you approach people, there is always a big shared interest to talk about, and the amount of calories it can burn is incredible. I'm sure one can accomplish this with other shared activities, for example sports, but the amount of positive influence latin dances can do to a hacker is in my opinion unparalleled.

[canvia]

People expect a big change to come along and fix things, but that is rarely the case. Regression or progression is a battle of inches with goals that are miles apart. For me, using a "one" system has proven greatly beneficial in making progress. I made a list of the areas in my life that I want to improve, and every day I try to do at least one thing towards achieving those goals. In my case the primary goals are: physical fitness, personal projects, eating healthy, reading, and home cleanliness. All I need to do is make at least one effort per day at improving any aspect of each of those five goals. It can be as simple as doing a single push up, updating one word on one page on a website, taking a multivitamin, reading a blog post or a chapter in a book, or putting away some laundry, as long as it's at least something. Most of the time I find that once I do at least one thing, I will end up doing more, since I've already started and have momentum. One push up turns into 10. Washing one dirty glass turns into emptying the sink of dishes. Sometimes it's the bare minimum, and that's fine too. Tracking each day can turn it into a bit of a game. Jerry Seinfeld's system makes a lot of sense to me: http://lifehacker.com/281626/jerry-seinfelds-productivity-se...

Progress is often slow and painful and it's easy to lose perspective on where you were, where you are, and where you want to be. Reflecting on your goals and your accomplishments can help you maintain perspective and stay positive. Also reflect on your mistakes so that you do not repeat them. Don't beat yourself up over mistakes, everyone makes them every day, you are just more aware of your own. If you are kind to your future self it makes it easier to have a positive image of your past self which can improve your outlook on the future. To me that is what meditation is all about.

Since you smoke, maybe try and use that as a reward. Right now it sounds like a coping mechanism, which can help, but it's no replacement for feeling and dealing with your emotions. That's dangerous long term. In the morning, before you wake and bake, read a chapter in a book. Do 10 push ups and then get high. That way you start the day on a positive note and knock out one or two of your daily goals right away.

If you are isolating yourself and not going outside you might also have a vitamin D deficiency from lack of sunlight exposure. A daily multivitamin can help with that and other dietary deficiencies. You aren't alone in what you're feeling and it can get better as long as you try. Good luck!

[cdr]

A typical multivitamin is only going to have 500 IU D3. That's very unlikely to help anyone unfortunately. I know a lot of people that see a huge benefit in mood with D3, but you need to take a lot more. Most people I know who take D3 for depression take 8000 IU/day, some 10000 IU. I wouldn't take any less than 4000 IU. (Research hasn't indicated toxicity until at least 20,000 IU.)

http://examine.com/supplements/Vitamin+D/

[8ig8]

You reminded me of this Reddit comment: "No More Zero Days"

http://www.reddit.com/r/getdisciplined/comments/1q96b5/i_jus...

[ScottBurson]

I feel for you, but I'm going to be blunt. You've got to get rid of the weed. As long as you're smoking, your head isn't going to clear and you're not going to want to do anything. Flush your stash down the toilet and don't look back.

Then, as someone else has said, getting a job is a really good idea. Otherwise you're going to wind up on the street, which will be far more depressing than your situation now.

Once those two things are taken care of, get help. I don't personally recommend staying on antidepressants for life -- no, I'm not a psychiatrist; this is just my opinion -- but they can be a useful temporary crutch.

[mercer]

Yes! it's a very easy trap to focus on the 'big things' when you're unhappy or depressed, while often the solution lies in simple things like diet, exercise, and general lifestyle.

Sometimes I think our brains actively keep us from realizing this, because they want to stay in charge. So we find solutions in more abstract, mental things, where sometimes the first (and sometimes the only really necessary step) is to start taking care of the whole of us.

[jqm]

Agreed 100%. Daily smoking, (especially starting in the morning) puts your life in a permanent twilight. And regarding girlfriends... a chronic stoner is usually pretty unsexy.

Put the weed away. Maybe put the computer away also. Start exercising. Spend as much time outdoors as you can. You need to feel physical want and frustration and pain a little bit. Don't hide from it... feel it. This (in my opinion) is one of the best antidotes to apathy and depression.

[IkmoIkmo]

Just upvoting this for visibility, hope someone has some helpful comments for you.

I really, really don't know what to tell you. I mean I can tell you what needs to happen, where you should start, but I've been there before and for me the biggest obstacle was that I didn't care, had no energy or motivation. So while I knew all the right answers, actually acting on it was the biggest obstacle.

I'm not sure if that's your problem, too. If not, really just try ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. Not knowing anyone with a bit of savings can be extremely liberating. It means you can literally get out of bed and do anything that day.

If I were you I'd start by writing down the things you'd like in life, then writing down what you need to do to achieve them. Set a goal and work towards it. You mentioned removing isolation. So work, education and sports are the main places we meet people. And once you meet a few there, you go and meet others through them elsewhere (like at a party). So get a job, any job, a volunteer job may even be the best. People love you, it's often a very gentle and caring crowd, there's no pressure, no attachment or stress, and it's incredibly satisfying. Then do a sport, a teamsport. Anything that fits. Used to play football, do that. Never did sports in your life? Join a beginner running team.

And get out, solo, too. Buy a bicycle and just ride, take music if you'd like, explore and think while you're out in the sun and the wind. And beyond that, take care of yourself, try to keep a more regular schedule, try to really wake up and sit down for breakfast, don't buy some crap and roll out of bed and into a chair and eat it while doing mindless browsing. I know I know, hippy territory here, but being mindful of the moment, consciously deciding to prepare a proper breakfast, and eating it at a table, with a moment of zero-distraction clarity, it creates the kind of dignity that can allow you to try something new. If you don't do that, you just fall into the same pattern and spend another day doing nothing in your chair. I've been there, that pattern is the worst.

Anyway feel free to post more of your thoughts or PM me anytime :)

[AznHisoka]

Since when did being mindful got associated with being hippy?

[IkmoIkmo]

My point is that a lot of people have an anti-reaction to words like mindfulness, meditation, vegetarianism, yoga, when science shows it seems to really help. A bit like how a stereotypical redneck shuts down when a stereotypical hippy suggests a different lifestyle.

So I was just joking to recognize he MIGHT just be rolling his eyes at that point, but to consider it none the less. This attitude may not be so prevalent at HN, but when someone has depression for 10 years, chances are he's heard the same story (e.g. "oh, read this book about mindfulness, you'll be better before you know it!") a million times before. I get that. I didn't want him to stop reading at that point. I used the word mindful purposefully because of this, not 'mindfulness'. Anyway you can ignore my point.

[l33tbro]

Please just takes some risks. Honestly, bold moves is what lifted me from a similar state. I'd been diagnosed and was living at home with my folks. But picking up and forcing myself into new situations is what lifted me out.

Don't worry about the fact that you're 30 and never had a GF. Honestly, it doesn't matter. I'm 33 and my GF is my first and she doesn't give a fuck. All she cares about is that I'm honest and that I reveal my true self. That's hard when you're a 30 yo dude and you're meant to have had a spate of relationships. But trust me, if you own that you haven't had much experience and become cool with it - women don't care. I've been there. My girfriend is super hot too ... but you learn that that doesn't even matter.

Just face up to who you are. Quit comparing yourself to your ideal and accept your imperfections and fuckups. Don't be a depressed waste of space like I was, pretending how bad I had it. Force yourself outside. I'd even get on something like Tinder and start getting pussy again just for your self esteem and self worth. Keep building and working on that. It's not easy, but stay focused on the small stuff and making fractional progress. Trust me, it adds up.

Don't be a cliche depressed fuck like I was. It's just so shit overall. Take risks and challenge yourself based upon the fact that you'll be fertilizer in no time. There's really no other alternative.

[31reasons]

>>get on something like Tinder and start getting pussy again just for your self esteem and self worth.

I appreciate you helping here but i would disagree with this statement. This could be a recipe for disaster and lot of mind fuck. Never ever base your self esteem and self worth on how much sex you are getting and from what type of women.

[l33tbro]

I'm not saying it is the only thing to base self esteem on. But sex, almost universally enhances quality of life and self-worth, unless you identify as asexual or enjoy being alone (which it didn't sound like it to me). My point was that the hangup of not having had a GF should not be something that people should feel shame for.

I agree though. I think Tinder can be terrible for people's self worth. Meaningless sex can be really destructive. But it sounds like meh_master isn't meeting people - and I think Tinder is a good way for people just to connect (even if it doesn't lead to hooking up). Just trying to help a guy out who seems to be looking for some answers and is in a pretty lonely place :(

[curun1r]

Find a doctor and get diagnosed. I'm not going to tell you that it will help you get better...I can't promise that. But getting the diagnosis will allow you to sign up for Social Security disability and keep you from eating through your savings. Everyone is different and every depression is different and the only thing I'm virtually certain of about your situation is that the stress of eating into your savings isn't helping you. Having someone who forces you to talk about yourself beyond a superficial level on a regular basis probably won't hurt either.

That said, here's what I wish someone had told me ~10 years ago when I first sought help:

1) Psychiatrists are too quick to prescribe medication. It alleviated the initial symptoms and allowed me to go back to work, but it separated me from my emotions in a way that's been hard to recover from since I've stopped taking them. That sentence looks weird to read, but it's the only way I know to describe it.

2) Try CBT and mindfulness therapy first. Also, socialization exercises help. It may not seem like it, but simply adding a "how was your weekend?" to your interactions with the cashier at the supermarket or forcing yourself to smile at 1 person a day can make a difference, however small.

3) Depression isn't only disease. It's a state of mind that can be useful. Take this opportunity to think deeply about things. Your current state of mind probably allows you to "dwell" on an issue in a way that I sometimes wish I could regain.

4) Sunlight helps. If you're feeling near catatonic, you might try being near catatonic in the park, in a back yard or anywhere where you can sit outside.

Good luck with getting better and I hope you can believe that it's worth it to try.

[serve_yay]

That sounds very similar to (though more intense than) what I go through. All I know to do is break cycles. Run out of weed, don't buy more for a while. Sitting around too much, force myself to go outside and walk around a park. Force myself to go to a social outing that I really would rather not go to.

I have found that even though I dread doing these things, and in general hate forcing myself to do stuff I don't wanna do, when I am actually doing them I am truly enjoying myself. More than I thought I would. Like, I might dread going to a get-together because the convos will be boring and I'll be waiting to leave, but then when I'm there I manage to find someone actually interesting.

I think there is a large "eat your vegetables" aspect to breaking out of this. At least for me that's the case. There's stuff that I know I should do but I just don't feel like it at all. But if I examine why I don't want to, I really find that there's no actual good reason. That's an indicator that I'm not thinking straight and need to spend a while doing things that I wouldn't otherwise do.

The only other thing is being extremely honest with myself. Honest about what I really want, honest about what is not making me happy. I was in a marriage that left me feeling unfulfilled, but I refused to admit this for over a year. That drove what turned out to be the longest and probably most severe depressive episode in my life. I am lucky though, and know that my depression is fairly mild, comparatively speaking.

[ams6110]

Get a job. Any job, but preferably something involving manual labor or with tangible results. Or volunteer. Build Habitat houses or something. You're not coding or doing anything else useful now so it's not going to take away from that. It will get you out of the house, put you back in contact with other people, and give you a feeling of having accomplished something every day.

[S4M]

Hey meh_master,

First, congratulations for exposing yourself here. I know it's not easy. As someone else said, I wanted to email you but you don't have a contact in your profile. Feel free to write to me if you want to speak to someone - I'm in Europe though, so I probably won't reply to you as timely as you might expect.

I would second the advice of the other commenters who told you to do a bit of physical activity. And, if you are still in good term with your mom (as your comment suggest), maybe you could move in with her temporarily? You'll save some money on the rent and will have someone to talk to.

Good luck!

[marklittlewood]

My thoughts are with you meh_master. You really deserve better.

Please watch this at some point.

http://businessofsoftware.org/2013/11/developers-entrepreneu...

Things can get better but please, please, please try to find the strength to reach out to someone, anyone and open a conversation.

Take a look at http://www.devpressed.com/ too.

Take care and look after yourself.

[cpncrunch]

I've been through depression myself, and managed to fully recover and now living a very happy life. I've also seen many friends and family go through depression, some recovering.

I would suggest three things:

[1] Have more social contact, even if it is going out for a walk and saying 'hello' to people.

[2] Do some enjoyable physical and mental activities every day.

[3] Find a motivating goal and work towards that goal every day.

Feel free to email me at [e-mail] and I'll be happy to chat with you more.

[sfjailbird]

Try to pick up some kind of sport. Taekwondo worked for me, you just have to conquer the embarrassment of being a beginner among new people, but those communities are usually friendly and get a lot of newbies all the time anyway. No social obligations, just go and do your own thing, over time you'll probably build some relationships as a side effect.

Running was a big help for me too. Again, just gotta get over the initial hump of laziness and being embarrassed at doing something that you're not very good at, until you start to get into it.

[fjolthor]

If you find it hard to get started, consider making an appointment with a psychiatrist and ask about Wellbutrin. It gives you energy rather than feeling low throughout the day and makes it magically easier to not get caught up in logically pointless and destructive thoughts. The best part is, you can continue to self-help it just becomes easier, and you only meet once every 6 months rather than every week with a psychologist.

Just my 2 cents, best decision I ever made after ~10 years depression, went when I was 29. Look up Dysthymia.

[meh_master]

I took Celexa and Cymbalta a few years ago but neither seemed to do anything for me. I may give medication another shot in the future, but I don't know.

[fjolthor]

Yes I tried Prozac and Zoloft 12 years ago before giving Wellbutrin a try early last year. It worked worlds better/differently because it is a non-addictive stimulant as well. Some doctors prescribe it to their children as a safe ADD medication.

[meh_master]

Interesting. I tried Adderall a few years ago as a stimulant, but it had no noticeable effect.

I ended up going through a month supply of it in under a week, I kept upping my daily dosage hoping for a miracle cure, because I wanted a magical pill. Happiness in a pill or something that would numb me to daily life.

[fjolthor]

I used Adderall a lot in college and a bit after but it only works temporarily and doesn't target depression. Actually the subsequent low from Adderall and other stimulants is why I hate them and they never turned into a serious addiction.

Wellbutrin had a stimulant effect at first because I wasn't used to it, but it slowly becomes less noticeable, leaving only the positive effects. I remember thinking about a week or so in: This is how other people get to feel?!? wtf

[canvia]

Non-addictive stimulant? Maybe it isn't chemically addictive, but all stimulants have the possibility for psychological dependency. Trading one dependency for another is not what I would consider to be progress.

[fjolthor]

It only has a noticeable stimulant effect in the beginning, after a few weeks you can't tell a difference and it just becomes part of routine with the same anti-depressant benefits. Whatever small risks you're assuming are far outweighed by the rewards.

[disputin]

Do the mindless internet browsing in coffee shops, it's a bit better. Cycling is my preferred exercise, either having a look around town, or off to the next town, catch the train back, or cross country. Unless you join a club it's fairly solitary, but it gets you out, covers more ground than running, provides a bit of adventure, keeps you occupied, distracted, avoiding monotony. Weed doesn't work for me, swap it for coffee.

[room271]

I really recommend you do whatever it takes to find close friends who you can talk to about this stuff if you don't have that already. Whether that means joining some kind of help group, church, whatever. Other people are a great normalising influence - they correct our negative thinking, but also help normalise shame and other stuff because it normally doesn't feel so bad once it's shared (and because we realise other people are just as screwed up as us, or at least, have problems of their own). Plus friends help us focus on others rather than ourselves.

[utefan001]

I was hoping to email you, but don't see a way to contact you. Could you please add an email address to your HN account? Stay strong meh_master.

[farresito]

Go out for a run every day. I have gone through depression (one of them extremely bad) and I know the feeling of isolation. Fortunately, the brain is very plastic, so this damage might be reversible.

Is there any specific reason you are depressed? I got a severe depression due to hormons and vitamin deficiencies; you might want to get that checked.

[anigbrowl]

Drop me a line.

[agumonkey]

I have to submit to reality even though it makes me question a lot of things, but yes, you have to stop believing your own emotion and self when things become either too dark or too shiny.

About isolation, it's kinda tough, people may leave you alone after a while which reinforce the feeling of uselessness.

[berberous]

I just want to second "Feeling Good". I only read the first 30-50 pages, and that was enough to instantly and permanently decrease my depressive thoughts by about 85%. Your results, of course, may vary.

[DanBC]

> - Long term: Therapy which tries to work on the root cause and not just at symptoms.

This can lead people down the wrong path and can be harmful rather than helpful.