[thr0waway1909]

I feel obliged to respond to this post since I've feel that you've basically described my life. I quit my (soul-crushing) job three months ago and plan on living off my savings until I manage to gather the energy to find another one (or to kill myself). I'm 29 and never had a girlfriend either. I feel utterly invisible to the opposite gender, as if there was some kind of unexplainable communication gap that I never managed to cross, while everyone else (including the countless couples of teenagers I see walking in the parks) just seems to have moved past that. For me this is the thing that kills me the most. I feel like I've wasted the best years in my life, and that because of that and missing out on some basic experiences that most people share, I feel extremely alienated from the rest of my peers. So I just fake it all. I lie about my life. I live like an impostor, and when someone is about to uncover that, I just run away or make up more excuses and lies.

I've got a few good friends, but they are far away. I've still got my family though, but I haven't told them about my depression. I actually have told no one except one friend, who was supportive but didn't really understand what I'm going through. I've been depressed for as long as I can remember, since I was a teenager I guess. Something like 10 years. I've also been thinking of suicide for years now, on a weekly, sometimes daily and hourly basis. The biggest problem is that I don't see the purpose of life. Most people will talk about family (children), career, religion... Things that don't work for me. I don't believe in any gods, I don't want any children (who would inevitably inherit my shitty genes) and my career is nowhere near where I would have wanted it to be, to the point that I was better off right out of college because I was mentally more apt then than now that I'm burnt out. (And lost almost all passion for programming)

I probably some form of ADD as well, because I've lost almost all ability to focus when trying to work on programming projects.

Right now I'm far away from home, taking holidays in the sun, and trying new hobbies. But nothing ever seems to stick (including meditation, which I've failed to pick up many times now). I've met people, but ultimately there is always a moment where I'm alone in a room and start wondering what is the point of going through all that. Life is ultimately absurd and we're all gonna die anyway.

Even writing this message feels utterly stupid. It's probably the worse answer that one could write to your message. Usually when I write these kind of messages, I tend to write them and immediately delete them because I feel so silly and pathetic. For once I'm gonna hit the reply button anyway.

[wbhart]

To both you and parent poster thanks for taking the time to write down your experiences. I used to completely dismiss people who had depression and anxiety, until I started having anxiety attacks myself. Now that I know how real they are, I instead feel like I want to study and understand the experiences of others and even ask questions (I will manage to restrain myself).

The fact is, technically minded people think about these conditions differently than others. We have the ability to be more detached, even from our own circumstances, and report our experiences without the mysticism and sentimentality. We also understand the placebo effect and evidence-based science, so we tend not to share endless anecdotes based on pseudoscientific potions and cures which are supposed to somehow magically solve the problem.

Therefore, I personally find your post hundreds of times more helpful than what I might find elsewhere. I also find blog posts (such as the linked article) from technically minded individuals on these issues, recounting their experiences, extremely insightful.

Although I've only seriously suffered from anxiety disorder, not depression, I can relate to a few things you write.

There were periods in my life (actually before the onset of my anxiety) where I couldn't see the point to life itself (I mean from a logical perspective; I didn't have suicidal thoughts). Actually, I had this from a very young age. I started off at age 4 with a passion for lego. But I quickly realised that I couldn't build a machine for doing real, useful work with this lego (it would break). And even if I did, what point would there be for me in building an excavator or a digger or motorcar that used the levers and pneumatics/hydraulics I was learning about with my lego? What purpose would I use the machine for? And even if I could answer that, what would I want to do that for, etc. So what was the real purpose in playing with lego?

I'm 38 and have never had a girlfriend! I live in hope. (The only thing I can recommend there is a dating website. I sure wish I'd discovered these when I was 29!!)

But when I was about 29/30 something strange happened that rewired my brain, seemingly all at once. All in the same year I suddenly became intensely interested in chess, scene (assembly) programming and a sport called martial arts tricking, after decades of not really taking all that much pleasure from anything. None of these things have any ultimate usefulness! And yet my entire mindset just suddenly flipped.

So what (scientifically speaking) happened to me? I've no idea, and I'd love to know!

Tricking stayed with me for 9 years. And even now I look back at it longingly. It has no ultimate purpose, but I miss it like crazy (there's no gym nearby where I can do it in my current location, and I'm getting a little old for it now). It's as useless as my childhood lego.

I don't want to suggest my experience has any immediate practical benefit for someone with depression. But I can definitely relate that what makes life enjoyable and livable, paradoxically, isn't necessarily something that gives it ultimate purpose.

I'm not suggesting I did something myself to change things. I just want to relate that even though I'm technically minded and fully understand what you mean by "life is ultimately absurd", this ultimately isn't an obstacle.

A king called Solomon apparently once wrote, "I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind." When I was 29, I definitely thought I was suffering from the "insanity of Solomon" (a little early I thought). But apparently, it turns out, life is meaningless. That just isn't the problem.

Obviously standard advice applies. Most people here (especially me) are not psychologists and if the depression and associated thoughts keep up, seek qualified help, if you haven't already. Psychologists should be able to help you root out contributing factors, help you isolate and shut down unproductive thought patterns/habits that exacerbate the problem, and psychiatrists can dispense medication which might give you time to reset and recover. At least these days they too are starting to pay attention to evidence based science!

[throwaway37337]

I've been where you are. For me the path out was exercise. Wake up and work out - every day, 7 days a week, first thing after you wake up. "Working out" can mean walking to the end of the block and back. And then you get to think, "Even if I do nothing else of value today, at least I worked out." Do that every day for a month, first thing. If you can ingrain that pattern in your brain, I promise you one block will become two and two will become four. And you will look at the crap you're about to put in your mouth and think, "this is not food." For me that was the path out. There's ways to overcome the women thing - really. And 30 is not too late, not even close to too late.

[thr0w4wy33]

I could have written something similar when I was in my late 20s.

My teenage years were filled with depression. My circle of friends consisted of a handful of people I knew from IRC. My 20s consisted of a string of failed business ventures. I was living at home. I had almost nothing in my bank account. I had very few friends and I would inevitably sabotage every friendship I had. I was overweight. I didn't have a girlfriend and had never even experienced a kiss. I lost a parent and then lost a step parent. I felt like the supposedly best years of my life were slipping through my fingers.

After being rejected by a girl I met online because of my weight/appearance, I decided that getting in shape would help. Eventually I was able to lose weight and I met a girl after attending a rare social event. I thought she was perfect and we hit it off but after our first date she rejected me in a very harsh way. I was devastated and decided to end my life.

I'll spare the details but I spent considerable time researching. I purchased the instrument of my demise. I wrote letters to the few people who I thought would care apologizing for my shortcomings.

Before I took what I believed would be the solution to my pain I took all of the money I had from a gig and went on a solo trip overseas. The first night I cried myself to sleep. I literally walked everywhere until the heels of my feet bled. I talked to some people I met and had a wonderful experience that reminded me good can enter your life in the most unexpected of ways and at unanticipated times. But most of my travels were in my mind.

My pain didn't end when I came back but I didn't end my life. Today I am in much better financial shape but I don't feel I have lived up to my potential and I'm still very much a procrastinator. I still don't have many friends. I have a girlfriend although anyone in a relationship can tell you they look easier than they are. There are days when I feel lost or like an impostor. I still have more regrets than I can count. I am currently mourning the loss a pet who I considered one of my best friends.

You're not silly or pathetic. I don't know what the purpose of life is either. Life is absurd and undeniably impermanent. I don't have any advice to give but if I could suggest one thing, it's that absurd, impermanent things aren't inherently worthless and incapable of providing happiness. "Nothing matters anyway" is as much an invitation to experiment with life and live it without worry or expectation as it is to give up on it.

[wbhart]

Human beings are wired to find intrinsic value in certain things. Art, music, puzzle solving, beauty, achievement, scientific knowledge, friendship, fine tasting food, travel experiences, charity work. Even life itself has some intrinsic value that we recognise. Ultimately none of these things has permanence and the pursuit of them all is absurd in some sense.

All of these are things that transcend our animal needs and desires. We value them not because of their ultimate usefulness or their needfulness, but because they have intrinsic value. Not ultimate value, but intrinsic value nonetheless.

Trying to fill your life with as many nice experiences as possible before you die only exaggerates the impermanence of our physical lives. And striving to "leave a legacy" for future generations can distract us from the intrinsic value of things that only we can experience and appreciate, and necessarily only in our lifetimes.

I'm absolutely desperate for the New Horizons spacecraft to finally arrive at Pluto next year. I'm going to look at every photo that thing sends back and be thrilled at having lived at precisely the right time to see it. And I'm going to keep looking and soaking it in until I am sick of that sucker. I'll read every article on it. Not because I think that it's going to have any meaning in the broader framework of my life (I'm not a planetary scientist), but because that will be an experience only people in my generation can have. To me, that rock will be beautiful, no matter how ugly and devoid of life it looks.

The same is true of a day's work. Any such day is probably meaningless. But at the end of it you can look at what you've done and derive satisfaction from it. Not permanent satisfaction, so that you don't have to do it all over again tomorrow. But real satisfaction that only you can experience.

Once I read a geology textbook, and learned about how the mountains are pushed up by continental shelves pushing together and worn down by erosion. Layers of sediment get uplifted. Earthquakes cause faults, and so on. After reading enough, I actually started to lose the sense of the beauty of mountains. All I saw was mechanical processes at work.

But this didn't last. Eventually, my innate sense of beauty captivated me again, so that when I look at mountains I am filled with wonder and a deep sense of awe. This despite the fact that I still know precisely how they got there, scientifically speaking.

I'm unsure whether the intrinsic value there is in the mountain itself or in my appreciation of it. But for that moment when I can actually visit a mountain, when I can actually have that experience, I appreciate that beauty.

But somehow, sitting around all day looking at photos of beautiful mountains, or even living right under one, isn't going to make me enjoy the rest of my life. The mountain is an experience I get to have irregularly. In this way, the intrinsic value of that experience catches me by surprise.

I even think that if I got on an aeroplane tomorrow to fly to a mountain to see it, I wouldn't be that affected by it. I'm sure we can do many things to increase our enjoyment of life, but I think that we have to be careful of believing that if we keep feeding experiences to ourselves we'll keep enjoying them. Treasured experiences can be very opportunistic. They depend on a happy coincidence of circumstances which I am uniquely able to appreciate at that time and place.

[mercer]

At least for me your message is very valuable, because the recognition in everything you say makes me feel less alone, or weird for that matter.

I quit my job just short of a year ago and took some time off. To some extent, it was helpful, because leading up to my quitting I noticed that I found it harder and harder to deal with even simple dilemma's or interpersonal issues. I felt myself steadily getting weaker, less resilient, and more isolated.

Leaning into that isolation, at first, helped. Having saved up some money I also didn't have to worry about, well, anything basically.

But at least in my case I feel I let it last a bit too long. The lack or purpose, even a 'stupid' purpose like showing up for a job I hated, ultimately made me feel terrified and the resulting existential 'depression' was possibly worse than barely-managed lifestyle I had before.

For the past few months I've started engaging again. I try not to ask myself too often what the 'point' is, but rather I try to dip my toes into different things, in the hope that I can find something that pulls me in so much that I stop dwelling on myself and 'big questions'.

I'm also considering a psychologist, even though for now I think I'm in an upward trajectory.

In the end, I've come to the (tentative) conclusion that my problem is not that I cannot find meaning, purpose, fulfillment or, well, happiness. Because in the end I believe nothing 'really' matters in some objective sense. And if I believe nothing matters, why would it surprise me that I cannot find something meaningful?

But that's not the issue at all. No matter how meaningless we think life might be, I've rarely met someone who truly feels that way too. We generally don't live with full awareness of our rational beliefs. And I myself too have gotten caught up in things that, until I reflect too much, feel intensely meaningful.

Rather, my problem, or at least one of my problems, is that my inability to handle the day to day realities and my attempts to 'fit in' (even while openly rejecting 'normalcy') have kept me from losing myself in whatever 'game' is challenging and fulfilling enough to not feel like a pointless game. As a result, not only am I stuck in a perpetual state of 'this is not meaningful, I need to reassess/fix/change/improve', and simultaneously a tremendous lack of experience with the mind-boggling variety of life games there are to play.

In fact, maybe an even bigger problem is that I have the arrogance to think that there is no game that can fool me.

I've found a lot of help in being around people who do not suffer from all that introspection. They seem to just randomly try things first, and only then concoct a story and meaning around it. And partly as a result of living in this way for a long time, they have actually figured out a lot of what makes them tick, and they found that 'game' that challenges them just enough to make them feel purposeful, but not so much that it overwhelms them.

And sometimes I think one good solution is to do more of that.

It's like I've gone through much of life trying to find that right partner without actually trying out relationships. The result is that I have spared myself the trouble (mostly) of broken hearts, mistakes, and terrible breakups, but I've also kept myself from actually figuring out what kind of relationship fulfills me. Because you can't really figure these things out without doing them.

I suppose mostly I'm just expressing my own process/issue in the hopes it helps someone feel less alone in their struggle. I don't think any of what I'm doing is necessarily a good prescription to anyone else.

Ultimately I find that at least one things that drags me out of depression is to focus on the trouble of others, or to swap stories. It doesn't solve things long-term, but I think it helps. The only thing I find worse than depression is feeling alone.

[akrymski]

This is going to sound silly, but have you tried bodybuilding? Not just running or hitting the gym once a week, but actually weight lifting? It works for me every time, and I think here's why:

- it releases endorphins - making you feel real happy just after the workout

- it increases your testosterone - making you more likely to do those "manly" things like approach a woman, or do something you've been previously afraid of.

- it makes you loose weight - making you more attractive to the opposite sex, which boosts your self esteem

- you'll see progress: depression is all about breaking with bad habits and progressing in something. as soon as you'll see progress - it will be easier to keep going, as you'll visualise the reward.

- you'll make new friends: I've made more friends in the gym than anywhere else I think

- you'll get the girls: sooner or later, once that muscle shows up, you'll get laid, and women will want to date you. The only better route to that is making a million bucks quick, but you're not mentally ready for that, so lay off the PC, go lift some weights until you're exhausted, sleep, and lift some more. Repeat until depression is gone.

PS Don't break anything. Get a proper book (I suggest Arnold's Bodybuilding Encyclopedia) and follow the rules.

[lolo_]

I get frustrated with advice like this - there have been periods where I've gone to the gym 5 times a week and had it have no affect on my emotional state whatsoever.

Moderate Depression is literally a different disease from severe depression. Don't assume what helps one will have the slightest affect on the other.

On the women thing - I lost huge amounts of weight after a massive diet and exercise regime and it... made no difference at all. I'm 5'5" therefore an untouchable as far as they're concerned (just google around on male height + dating if you don't believe me, I'm tired of arguing as to why this is the case people tend not to want to believe it.)

I think this side of things would make a difference with women, however, if you have no obvious flaws so for normal dudes it's applicable. But don't think it will necessarily have an impact on the depression. Severe depressives should see their doctor and try to get outside help.

[akrymski]

Obviously it's all personal, I'm just saying it helps me. I'm 5'7" and date models. Lots of bodybuilders are short.

Also, a lot of people confuse "going to the gym" with proper bodybuilding. There's a big difference, at any time the gym is 90% full of looser guys on the treadmill. Like with anything, to get proper results out of it you have to take it seriously, research, read books, maybe get a trainer to get you started. You'll only get out of it what you put in. Light jogging on the treadmill won't help much, and it's not just about extra weight. There's something about pumping iron at your lifting-limit in particular that releases endorphins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nZ1v96-veM

[seer]

I feel like I did nearly avert a situation much like you are describing. I was just falling into a pitfall of depression when a decision, made in a strange, drunken state changed my life forever. By the weirdest circumstance I went to a latin dance class. The combination of structured social contact, technicality and physical exercise did wonders for my self esteem. There's a certain meritocratic vibe with dancers where with just simple repetition and hacker mindset you can become quite good, and people will respect that however your physical appearance. You can make lots of really great friends in a short time. I think that's one of the greatest life hacks a depressed hacker can do. You learn to interact with people easily as there is a very clear framework on how you approach people, there is always a big shared interest to talk about, and the amount of calories it can burn is incredible. I'm sure one can accomplish this with other shared activities, for example sports, but the amount of positive influence latin dances can do to a hacker is in my opinion unparalleled.