Take the chance to freshen up on eastern European history and the absolute dark footprint that russia has cast on it during the centuries. There is a reason why eastern europeans would rather die than be under russian occupation.
It's not just about borders, it's about oppression, torture, destruction, and then borders again in a few years. To STILL not see what the russian world is about is truly an exercise in idiocy. Sorry, I had to answer a genuine question with a genuine statement
> why eastern europeans would rather die than be under russian occupation.
From what I gathered, people above a certain age say that their country was better under Soviet Union. Additionally, people say (probably rightly so) that Orbán is pro-Putin. Why is it the case?
> From what I gathered, people above a certain age say that their country was better under Soviet Union.
Rather a minority of people above a certain age. Like, these days you can go to the shop and buy a banana. Other things, too. I still remember the queues, at the end of which... there was nothing.
>From what I gathered, people above a certain age say that their country was better under Soviet Union
Assuming this is true, it's because these are soviet leftovers who had a low education, were indoctrinated from a young age, and lived during the dream phase where you were told what to do, where to live, etc. Then came the bill when everything collapsed because this didn't work.
I can make everybody happy tomorrow by emptying the state coffers and institutionalizing national NEETDOM, can't promise our happiness will last long but we can try!
And regardless of what they think, it was shit.
Edit: about "why is Orban pro-putin?", this is a joke right?
No, I'd rather not spend my time on what seems to be a promising exercise in moving the goalpost. Not sure I'd classify hungary as eastern European (I was mostly referring to slavs) but sure you can find at least a pro russian guy among eastern europeans, especially dictator ones.
Well, from what I gathered, people think the Earth is flat. And I think the way I gathered that data is considerably less creative than the way you did if you managed to come up with that inane conclusion.
In fact, you're so wrong that we're no longer in the realm of having opinions. You're objectively wrong. Look up comparisons of the economic growth of nations to the west of the Berlin Wall and to its east. Germany's alone would suffice, but have at it.
And then you think bringing up outliers means anything... If chess is so difficult why is Magnus Carlsen so good at it? Therefore, chess is an easy game, gotcha. yawn
In the end, it’s the people who fight that determine if the thing they are fighting for is worth their lives.
Dying for some lines on the map sounds bad, but if it were only lines on the map, then the people probably wouldn't choose to die for them, would they?
Nobody wants to die, but if someone is ready to give up their life for some cause, then who are you to tell them they can't?
It's the fate of Ukrainians that is at stake and its the Ukrainians that determine if changing that fate is worth the costs of their lives.
I am not going to tell them they can't, they can do as they see fit, of course.
It is a very subjective topic, however. I might save my family even if it meant the death of hundreds of people, or not, it is a moral dilemma for sure. I do not have an answer.
Some people may believe "less people dying" is always favorable.
Seems like most people who have replied to my comments want justice over saving millions of people's life. Fine by me, but the assumed and voiced moral superiority is baffling.
To have done "the same", he would have needed to force Russian citizens living in occupied Kursk to pick up guns and throw their lives away fighting other Russians. Which he didn't.
Russia did force people from occupied territories to fight in Ukraine.
You are taking a side though. Your position that absence of violence is more important than justice means that you expect Zelensky to just roll over and give Russia what it wants, which basically means a complete annexation of Ukraine.
You accused others with having a voice of moral superiority, but your "I did not pick a side" is just that.
There are only two possible outcomes to this war. Either Ukraine still exists as a sovereign nation, or it doesn't. The first will require continued fighting. There is no possibility for Ukraine to remain sovereign without violently kicking Russia out of its land.
What you described is black and white thinking, however, and there is much more to it than just "either Russia wins or does not win", pretty sure there can be a compromise, you know, a middle path, that is good enough for both parties and consequently there will be less deaths.
If people want to die for justice, so be it. Up to them, but:
Would you talk about suicide bombers in the same vain though?
Ask the people who tried to scale the Berlin wall before the collapse of the Iron
Curtain. Oh, you can't, because they're dead. Shot. Because they were on the wrong side of the boundary.
> getting conscripted by Putin as cannon fodder to go after the next country.
Is it not just speculation? Does it have any merits? Would he do it? What makes you think that it is going to happen, that he wants to do it? Could he actually attempt to do it?
> Is it not just speculation? Does it have any merits? Would he do it? What makes you think that it is going to happen, that he wants to do it? Could he actually attempt to do it?
Game theory would like to have a word. If I'm Putin and I know you will not defend your country if threatened, what's to stop me from annexing it? And then the whole world? After all, we don't want people to die in wars. It's much better for them to die in concentration camps.
There are a LOT of things preventing Putin from doing what he SUPPOSEDLY wants, but regardless, you are not Putin, you do not know what he wants or would do. Putin cannot simply just invade countries at whim, assuming he wants to do that.
But does it actually avoid deaths though? One of them will have to stop, if neither does, there will be more bloodshed, that is a given, right? If Putin does not stop, shouldn't Zelensky do?