[crazygringo]

> Why did they try to invade Kyiv exactly? To take it?

Yes.

> If they do, then it requires military intervention.

Yes. That is the military intervention that Ukraine is continuing to take against Russia currently.

Does it all make sense now? Why Ukraine shouldn't just let itself be invaded, in order to avoid deaths?

[johnisgood]

But does it actually avoid deaths though? One of them will have to stop, if neither does, there will be more bloodshed, that is a given, right? If Putin does not stop, shouldn't Zelensky do?

[crazygringo]

So do you think the world should have let Hitler take it over in WWII? Not just Europe, but an empire stretching continents?

People are willing to fight for freedom, even if they might die in the process.

By your logic, you're saying everyone should just surrender to violent bullies. Most people don't think that kind of subjugation is a life worth living -- not if they can help it.

[johnisgood]

No, that is not my logic, and no, I do not believe the world should have let Hitler take over either.

[crazygringo]

OK, so now do you understand why Ukraine is resisting then?

Because when you wrote:

> One of them will have to stop, if neither does, there will be more bloodshed, that is a given, right? If Putin does not stop, shouldn't Zelensky do?

You can say in WWII, if Hitler does not stop, then shouldn't Churchill/FDR/etc. stop to avoid more bloodshed?

It's the same thing. It's an expansionist European land grab by a dictator. Just take how you understand WWII and apply it to this conflict.

[johnisgood]

I understand, but if Hitler kills people, or would kill people, that may be considered bloodshed, even more so.

So stopping Hitler through whatever means necessary results in less deaths, right? That was my initial point: less deaths.

[crazygringo]

OK, so imagine Hitler didn't have death camps, but otherwise was the same. Invading all of Europe, for democracies to fall to fascism. And then he'd start invading the rest of the world.

You think that would have been preferred then? You would prefer that today we would live under a fascist Third Reich, instead of democracies, so that we could have saved the lives of those who fought in WWII?

I mean, you're free to prefer that. But everyone who fought did it because they thought it was worth it to die, to save democracy so they and their children and their children's children wouldn't have to live under fascist rulers from another nation.

Maybe you don't think Ukranians should fight. But Ukranians clearly believe it's worth it. And people in the country honor those who die for it. And I do too.