[thomas-st]

My 14" M1 MacBook Pro screen repair cost was $809. Supervisor refused the waive the fee. The screen cracked for no apparent reason and then completely stopped working.

Some firm already filed a class action complaint, and I submitted my details: https://classlawdc.com/2021/08/04/m1-macbook-screen-crack-in...

[haunter]

And that’s why most people buy $500 laptops. Even if the screen broke you can probably buy a 3rd party one from Aliexpress for $100.

But $800 for a replacement one? I’d rather sell the MBP for parts on eBay and buy a new one if must then pay that much. Like you would get more for that with a broken screen for sure, some people would fix it on their own or use it as a desktop computer.

But I don’t have a SV engineer salary so what do I know

[z9znz]

> And that’s why most people buy $500 laptops.

Most people is a sketchy expression, but I would venture a guess that "most people" buy cheap laptops because they don't really care, they don't know how to adequately judge which ones are worth more, and they also just don't want to spend much on a computer.

It's hard to imagine, but "most people" actually care little about computers.

[comprev]

For many people outside of HN demographic $500 is a lot of money for "a computer"

A macbook would be like buying a top spec Mercedes when all they need is a no frills base model Ford.

[nickjj]

> For many people outside of HN demographic $500 is a lot of money for "a computer"

It would be but it's also kind of overkill based on the specs you can get nowadays for general computer usage.

I recently picked up a $399 15.6" Lenovo laptop new on Amazon for a family member. It has all of the important stats for a regular user. A 1080p display, fairly light, 11th gen Intel CPU (i3), 8gb of memory and most importantly an SSD. It's lightning fast for browsing the web, working with Excel and playing browser games.

If you did care more about development they have a 20gb of memory version with a 512 GB SSD for $540 and a 36gb of memory version with a 1 TB SSD for $630.

[cywick]

With these cheap computers, the manufacturers typically cut corners on things that are not listed on the spec sheet, though, especially the quality of the trackpad.

We have a bunch of $400 Lenovos at work and their trackpads are absolutely atrocious. When someone is using one of those, they almost always use an external mouse with them, because otherwise, mouse cursor handling is just too frustrating.

[nickjj]

The webcam and sound are decent enough for casual usage. The keyboard was surprisingly good.

I can't speak for the trackpad. When setting up the laptop I found it to be ok but I only have 2 occasions of using it for 20 minutes (2 different laptops) which isn't enough time to really evaluate it since so many things can be hit or miss with trackpads. The people who use it do use an external mouse, mainly because using a trackpad is too foreign to them.

Both Lenovos are IdeaPads that were purchased a few years apart. The latest one wasn't to replace the first one, it was for someone else. The first one is still going strong. I had forgotten I even picked a Lenovo the first time around and ended up picking the same brand / model when researching "what is a really good budget'ish laptop for general computer use".

[BoorishBears]

My mother had this mentality.

Almost yearly she'd buy some $150-$200 Dell clunker, all plastic, atrociously low resolution, loaded with bloatware.

For years I told her if she'd just buy one "overpriced" Macbook she'd save money in the long run, since despite some hiccups over the years, Macbooks are not particularly unreliable.

-

Eventually I took it upon myself to give her my old Surface since she didn't want to learn OSX.

A machine I optioned out to nearly 1k, for someone who only checks emails and writes word docs... yet 4 years later and she hasn't needed a new one.

She's easily saved her money's worth if she had bought it new herself simply from not dealing with the hassle of needing a new machine every 12-24 months.

[endorphine]

Agreed. I'm very proud of a $1200 Sony Vaio laptop I got back in 2007. My mother still uses and it's going strong, albeit the battery which needs to be replaced.

[NoPicklez]

I don't think that's true. Yes I agree it might be a Mercedes but given that most of Apple's customer base isn't HN and most people seem to be happy spending $1k+ on an iPhone. $500 isn't a lot of money for a computer.

[diffeomorphism]

This doesn't really transfer. The same people willing to spend $1k+ on a phone might still say that $500 for a computer is a lot. Just like they would consider $200 for a kitchen knife a lot. Different categories, different scales.

[tyre]

Phone through carriers are heavily discounted with 2 year contracts. Apple also offers zero APR financing to pay for a new phone. Humans have a harder time reasoning about buy now/pay later.

[NoPicklez]

Apple also offer financing on their laptops as well?

Phone's are not heavily discounted with 2 year contracts, definitely not here in Australia anyway. Carriers are going down the route of customers paying the standard device repayment per month (equalling the RRP). The days of device subsidies by taking a plan are fading.

Plans from mobile carriers are becoming suped up pre-paid plans with a device payment tacked on.

[ok123456]

Except the Mercedes is actually repairable.

[surfpel]

For most people, you'll have to take it to the mechanic and it'll cost you an arm and a leg... wait that sounds familiar...

[namecheapTA]

A vehicle needing a repair that costs 50% of its new MSRP is extremely rare, outside of a few electric vehicle battery packs.

In addition, when a vehicle reaches the point where any common repair costs more than it's current market value, it's basically considered worthless and only desperate people buy them. How long does it take an apple product to reach that point? A year?

[ok123456]

You can take it to an independent repair shop. There's a supply chain of repair parts. Mercedes doesn't try to use trademark laws and DRM to stop you from using a third-party water pump.

[asdff]

Not anymore

[OJFord]

That used to be true, but somehow Apple gets them. Probably still more true of non-mac computers - where high-end sales I imagine are almost exclusively to businesses and gamers.

[LoveMortuus]

Especially because "Why do I need a computer, I can already do everything on my phone".

I got this from my brother, so it's really not that far away from us.

[JustSomeNobody]

I needed a new laptop last year. I decided to care less about my computer and so I chose not to get another Mac. Got a small Lenovo instead. Runs great with Linux. Does exactly everything I need it to do.

[nibbleshifter]

I've been instructing (extended) family members asking about laptops to just get an ex-biz lenovo (x220, x230, etc) and let me configure Linux/do upgrades on it for the last 8-9 years.

It serves all their use cases, and most of them are still working fine with no real repair need.

The apple branch of the family though (my in-laws) have been having hardware failures almost consistently during that time.

[z9znz]

I'm too old and not of the right disposition to provide much tech support for people anymore. I did that for years, and I learned that it truly sucks to have to fk around frequently with stupid stuff (usually Windows stuff). But even Linux, using it as my own development environment, I would periodically have stupid stuff just mysteriously break and than require a lot of fiddling to get fixed.

As for Apple reliability, I set my grandfather up with an iMac 11 years ago. It was still functional when I replaced it with a Chrome desktop machine last year. (Of course it was no longer supported for OS upgrades, so that was the final reason to replace it). Likewise, my girlfriend daily drives my 2014 MBP which I used and abused around the world for years. I did an Apple service center battery replacement, and otherwise it performs as new. 8 years with a laptop is pretty great, especially considering it still does everything it's supposed to.

Oh, the wifi at my grandfather's house is still the original Airport I setup 11 years ago. It still does its job, without fail. I think I had to provide tech support (unplug, wait, replug) once.

For low-tech family, I now recommend Chrome devices. They are about the easiest things to support, and they are fairly low priced.

[ricardobayes]

Most people care about design more than realiability

[herbst]

The X2 or T4 series from Lenevo are definitely state of the art in Design. Being so thin that no standard plugs fit anymore wouldn't be 'hot' among humans either.

[jdshaffer]

I've been pondering doing something similar myself. If you don't mind my asking, which Lenovo did you get and which Linux variant does it seem to play nice with? :-)

[harry8]

T480s 3.5yrs old, out of warranty, ex-corporate cost me USD$430 running ubu 22.04 on a 4 core 8th gen core i5 & intel gfx is getting me 10 hours of battery life without having replaced the battery. (power settings set to Power Saver in the very obvious gui menu above shutdown). I did shove in more ram and a bigger ssd. Meh, 8G & 250G would have been enough fwiw. Gnome desktop is a thing I now find really polished and lovely to use.

In all it's just a beautiful thing I'm very, very happy with.

Use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_T_series

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_X1_series

& Ebay. But it's also a very reasonable & justifiable decision to buy a new thinkpad imho. When it's a couple of years old the hardware support is usually perfect on first install - but I guess I don't use garbage like fingerprint readers so ymmv on that kind of silliness.

Thinkpads, T-Series, X1 carbon are the best laptops on the market by a good margin and have been there in that spot consistently for a long time. Buy apple if you really want/need to run apple software. I'd say just about /any/ distro will place nicely with the kernel-hackers laptop of choice. I'd bet fedora, rhel/centos, debian, arch would all be just terrific if you prefer one of those (and why not?)

[abrouwers]

I mean, x1 carbon (new) isn't much cheaper (in fact, more expensive, at the time of my googling) than a MacBook Air. The linux ecosystem (which I love) has it's own fair share of problems - gnome vs. KDE, deb vs. rpm, X vs. Wayland, pulseaudio vs. pipewire, systemd vs. (the world). Sure, installing ubuntu and not worrying about any of it is a great option, but I think you've painted a slightly too pretty picture :-)

(And, on your "kernel-hackers laptop of choice comment," it's curious that Linus released the last kernel from a MacBook device)

[jdshaffer]

Sorry for the very late reply, but thank you so much! I'm very glad to hear you have a machine (and OS) that you are happy with. I'll definitely check it out for myself!

Thanks again!

[JustSomeNobody]

Ideapad 5 pro with an AMD proc. it's the 14" variant. I am not near it right now, so I can't give you specifically what model. Got it on sale at Costco. Running Pop_os. The newer Linux kernels have support of amd_pastate so battery life is good.

Previous Mac was a 13" Macbook Pro if anyone is keeping score. Loved it, but just didn't want or need something that expensive.

[jasonfarnon]

they don't know how to adequately judge which ones are worth more

yeah we buy 500$ (150$ in my case) laptops over apple products precisely because we can judge which ones are worth more

[throwntoday]

Guessing power isn't your concern then. The macbooks offer power at a slight premium over the rest.

[bonestamp2]

Apple service is usually very good as well -- I've had several products replaced by overnight fedex with no additional cost. Also time machine backup/restore is a godsend for mission critical workstations when you do need a replacement. But ya, most people aren't doing work where time is worth the slight premium.

[Const-me]

I agree with GP, and I think here on HN the opposite of your comment is true.

People buy expensive laptops because they don't know how to adequately judge which ones ain’t worth more. Not just on HN, I’m observing same behavior among friends and co-workers.

People buy ultra-thin laptops because marketing sells them as high-end. It’s often impossible to upgrade them to good specs like 32-64 GB RAM and fast 2TB+ SSD. And even CPU performance ain’t great because thermal throttling, hard to dissipate heat from an ultra-thin computer.

Similarly, people who never play videogames buy laptops with discrete GPUs like nVidia 3070, paying money, weight, and even battery life for something they don’t need.

[Bayart]

I've never spent more than 400 or 500$ on a laptop. Plenty of good enough stuff on the second hand market if you go after business laptops. But it's never my main machine (I can't understand doing anything productive with 14").

[z9znz]

The screen size is the only real limitation for me when using my M1 Air. The keyboard is pretty decent, the trackpad is just right, and the form factor is wonderful.

There is a noticeable loss in human productivity by not having a separate large monitor (and sometimes also a nice external keyboard+mouse). However, I find that the small screen constraint can be beneficial sometimes as it forces me to approach my work a bit differently. I would say it's a bit like how changing my scenery or routine temporarily can recharge me.

[Bayart]

> I would say it's a bit like how changing my scenery or routine temporarily can recharge me.

Work-wise, the only thing I like about laptops is the ability to quite literally change my scenery (going in a café or in nature for an afternoon). But it's always with the intent of doing the few things I can do on that sort of device : reading or writing some doc and doing some surface level diagnostics through SSH (my job is a mix of Kubernetes administration and miscellaneous production tasks).

It's nice to have, but it also can't be the tool of my trade. Putting any significant money into a machine that'll end up 70% of the time as a self-standing Netflix screen in bed isn't worth it.

I know a few people who can work exclusively on their laptop, but they also use no UI scaling and have much better eyesight :)

[derekbaker783]

I've had good luck with refurb machines also (but never tried an Apple laptop refurb).

[threeseed]

> And that’s why most people buy $500 laptops

It's why you buy $500 laptops. You can't extrapolate that to most people.

Another reason is that they only have $500 and are buying whatever is available in that price range.

[jackmott42]

I bought a Framework laptop, new screen is cheap and very very easy to swap in yourself.

[XorNot]

Framework is my dream machine, still waiting for an Australia launch.

Also hoping we'll see them execute on some additional keyboard layouts (or someone will) - avoiding Mac-like keyboards is one of my primary desires laptop wise.

[Haegin]

I'd love a split, ortholinear, semi-ergonomic keyboard for a laptop but know it'll never happen on a mass-market device. The framework has the best change of making it possible because they couldd just sell that keyboard to those who want it without needing them to sell the rest of the laptop as part of the package. Still not likely to happen, but I can dream...

[lttlrck]

I had to check.. $179!! That's amazing.

[copperx]

Cheaper than a Chromebook! It looks like I'll have to buy one.

[kayodelycaon]

Depends on the Chromebook. I've got a $99 one and it's surprisingly decent: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-chromebook-3-11-6-hd-lap...

The trackpad works better than any windows laptop I've used.

[adhesive_wombat]

If I had $500, I'd get a second hand ThinkPad. Gets you a lot more computer than a $500 semi-disposible thermally-crippled mehbook.

My T440s is still going strong, and that was second hand back in 2016 (I did upgrade to an FHD matte screen).

They're not quite as good as they used to be though, the T580 definitely feels like a step down in build quality.

I may consider a Framework next go-around but for now, that's my strategy.

[jerryjerryjerry]

oh man, I'm also typing on my T440p now, and yes, it's still running strong and healthy without much to complain.

[haunter]

Agreed. I have some i5 x230 Thinkpdads from eBay and they are all perfectly fine with new SSD + maxed out RAM

[herbst]

Or just a ThinkPad. The best available screen for my T480s is like $150 and way better than the original.

[settrans]

Even $500 is rich, now, for a laptop. iPads and Chromebooks can be had for half that, and could run circles around the laptops of yesteryear. Hell, MT8183-powered Chromebooks cost $170 and still come with FHD touchscreens, 12-18 hours of battery life and have acceptable build quality.

[analog31]

There must be a market for expensive new laptops, because there is a bustling market for refurbished ones -- my source of new gear.

But I have a hunch Apple will make good on this.

[davidf18]

https://www.apple.com/support/products/mac/

AppleCare+ is $70/year for M1 MacBook Air and covers damages. It also covers accidents such as coffee spills or drops.

I have 3 year AppleCare+ for 16" MacBook Pro.

[volkl48]

....kind of. It's got a deductible for accidental damage, and the deductible can be fairly significant.

You're going to be out an additional $99 if you only damaged the display or only damaged the top case. But if you had a liquid spill or significant drop, you're likely going to be out the $299 (for damaging both, or for damaging the logic board/anything else internal at all).

It's a decent deal if you've got a high end machine, but it doesn't as much sense IMO if you bought something like an Air or a Base 13".

--------

In contrast, ~$160 on a $1.5k Dell Latitude will get 3 years of warranty + accidental damage coverage with no deductible.

[auggierose]

And that's why you get Apple Care with your MacBook.

[josephcsible]

That feels like saying "And that's why you pay the Mafia their protection money." These screens are breaking because they're defective, which is what the warranty is supposed to cover. Why should you have to pay Apple more money for them to do what they're already supposed to do?

[armchairhacker]

AppleCare is a good idea in general. Even if you’re generally careful, you never know when the mac will break because of something that was your fault

[josephcsible]

I break things infrequently enough that it's cheaper to keep the money I would have spent on protection plans in my bank account, and then just pay out of pocket when I do.

[Phlarp]

Paying protection to the mob is a good idea in general. Even if you're generally careful, you never know when a leg will break because of something that was your fault.

disclaimer: I have applecare+ on an m1 pro

[tomxor]

> you never know when the mac will break because of something that was your fault

You have been gaslit by Apple.

You know when it's your fault... but with Apple, you can never be sure.

[astura]

I really don't want to own objects that are so needy the require their own insurance policy.

[parasubvert]

No house, car, utility vehicles?

How about your body? Medical and life insurance are nearly universal.

[NorwegianDude]

Insurance is never a good idea in general, except if you can't risk paying for it yourself.

[parasubvert]

Which is nonsense, the whole point of insurance (and why most people should purchase insurance) is to pool risk so to cover high costs that most can’t afford for themselves.

[__d]

Warranty lasts 12 months. AppleCare lasts 3 years. Your choice.

Dell is the same. IIRC, HP was too. There's nothing to see here.

[GekkePrutser]

12 months in the US. It depends on the country. In Europe a device has to last a reasonable time with a minimum of 2 years. But the warranty is with the seller, not the manufacturer. This is why I generally buy from Apple directly, so they can't weasel out of it this way.

Though after the first year the onus is on the consumer to prove a manufacturing defect. During that first year the manufacturer has to prove it wasn't broken by the customer. That makes the discussion a bit harder after the first year. Also, these protections only apply to consumers. Businesses have to fend for themselves and that includes -employed when buying as such (and thus avoiding VAT)

[josephcsible]

But aren't the computers that broke in this story less than 12 months old?

[auggierose]

You are still free to sue them if it is actually a faulty product. But maybe you want to get a quick repair done in the mean time without shelling out $800?

[ClumsyPilot]

> You are still free to sue them

Indeed you are free to sue a wide variety of criminals, but ususally we don't refer to them with reverence and respect

[smoldesu]

Waiting for Apple to admit wrongdoing is like trying to get blood from a stone. Remember the Nvidia chip failures that Apple caused by using cheap solder on their Logic Boards? They never fully owned-up to that one, despite being 100% culpable. We eventually got admissions of guilt for things like Lightning ports and Butterfly keyboards, but that doesn't fix the thousands of devices that are now using ass-backwards technology that can only be replaced once broken.

The other comment is entirely right. The fact that Apple can sell a first-party service entirely dedicated to replacing broken iDevices is evidence enough that it's a racket.

[auggierose]

I rarely had a problem with an iDevice. Once my MacBook Pro 17 inch broke down after 4 years or more, it was out of warranty and out of Apple Care, and they replaced the whole motherboard for free anyway. My mother is using it to this day.

Doesn't feel like a racket to me. Rather, if you buy an expensive device, and you cannot easily afford a replacement if it breaks, get an insurance. That's Apple Care (plus). It is an easy enough to understand concept.

[the83]

I used to always pay for apple care, but not once have they paid out a claim or fixed a problem without charging me. It's always "we don't cover normal wear and tear" or "we don't cover moving parts" or "the user must be at fault".

[legitster]

> And that’s why most people buy $500 laptops.

It's also worth pointing out that the $500 laptop will probably last a lot longer than the most expensive Macbook. All plastic, they use a lot of older/reliable technology, they don't get used as rough - the most common failure mode is they get too old/slow for the user.

[bardworx]

In the last 12 years, I’ve owned 3 MacBooks. Maybe my experience isn’t common, but the units that I’ve bought, have always outlived my windows machines.

When averaged out to cost per year, in my experience, Apple is way cheaper.

[legitster]

Part of the issue here is that "Windows machines" could mean anything from an el cheapo Asus to a mil-spec Thinkpad.

I also think that people don't necessarily appreciate how much quality improvements have been made in the last 5-7 years in consumer laptops. Optical drives are gone, everything has an SSD, performance has plateaued and AMD is good again.

Someone walking into Best Buy today and dropping $500 on a laptop will be getting a much more robust machine than when I did the same back in college.

[bardworx]

You are 100% right, besides the mil spec, which explicitly means the “least expensive option that does the job”.

I can attest that recently, the average laptop is way better. My machines were a toshiba, surface (2nd gen), and think pads (during their dark ages), dell XPS.

[TacticalCoder]

My two MacBook Air, both from 2013, are still working. They both have battery issues but I plan to replace the battery.

My MacBook Air M1 had that very screen defect thing happen for no reason after... 10 months.

So, basically: ten years vs ten months.

Many people are reporting this issue: Apple fucked up big times and it's time to stop apologizing.

I don't care how genius the Apple geniuses are and I don't care that my 10 years old MacBook are still working: what I do care about is that my 10 months old M1 Air died on me out of nowhere.

[bardworx]

Yes, that is really, really messed up. I’m not abdicating Apple from making a crap machine that they will be fixing for the next X years because of whatever issue.

Currently, I still have faith in Apple, despite their lemons only because other companies laptops sucked more.

But that does not mean your point in invalid, at all. I just hope that this is an isolated incident to a particular generation vs a broad company trend.

[10729287]

My 2008 white macbook had cracking wrist rest, exactly like any other macbook fromp this generation, and it seems every macbook since then had its very own issue impossible to avoid. I Love Apple laptops but it's like you're always buying them and using them with a sword of Damocles over your head.

[decremental]

I bought an Air in 2014 that lasted me until last year when I bought a new one. The old one still works. It's just too slow for my needs. I still open it up occasionally for some things. Longest running computer I've ever owned by a long shot.

[__d]

I have a 2011 13" Air that has been mine, then my wife's, then my kid's. It has been thrown in backpacks, dropped, stood on, you name it. It's still going strong, and my kid still pulls it out to play some Mac-only games every few weeks.

I've got a 2014 15" MBP. It's had the screen replacement (free), and a bulging battery got me a new lower case & battery for $200. Still my daily driver.

OTOH, my wife has a 2017 MacBook which is on its third keyboard/lower case. Both the replacements were free, but it's a PITA to have to take it to the store and be without it for a few days while they swap in the new one.

Either way, my experiences have been uniformly positive with Apple's service, and whatever issues exist with the underlying hardware, if they're Apple's fault, I've had no trouble getting replacements for free.

All anecdata, I acknowledge.

[ricardobayes]

I hate the fact I need to research 'vintages' for every product nowadays. Almost every product has a good production year followed by several worse ones. Like wine.

[acdha]

This is lazy trolling - maybe it’s true in your personal experience but there are tons of people who can say anything you want for n=1-2.

If you want to do more than rehash 4 decades of “PC/Macs suck” forum posts, try finding some hard stats on resell value or enterprise fleet longevity.

[legitster]

I'm not trying to make a case that Macs are inferior. A Nissan is a much crappier car than a BMW, but I would bet on the crappier Nissan to run much longer without need of serious maintenance.

[ricardobayes]

One thing I learned is japanese cars function very well if you change their oil very frequently. It's usually 10k miles by the book, but also the book says if you sit in traffic a lot or go short trips this should be more frequent, even as often as 3-5k miles. Most people don't read this fine print and get surprised their car burns 2 quarts of oil per thousand miles by 40k miles.

[acdha]

You know what would help? Data! Your car analogy is backed by decades of that being available from a slew of organizations.

Computers are harder to get that for, especially when you have to correct for things like whether different classes of buyer have notably different habits.

[lolinder]

I probably use my laptops harder than most people, but this has not been my experience with plastic laptops. I lost two laptops in a row to the plastic case cracking. In the first case the case broke around the hinge and destroyed a fan. In the second, about half the keys on the keyboard stopped working. I'll never buy another plastic-chassis laptop after that second one.

[vladvasiliu]

I can beat you! I had both issues, cracked hinge AND keyboard not working anymore on the same PC! It wasn't even a "cheap" model, but a rather mid-range HP ProBook. Judging by current prices, it should have been around €800 at the time.

> I probably use my laptops harder than most people

Yeah, I didn't. This was basically a sedentary laptop, 95% of the time sitting on a desk connected to external screens / kb / mouse in an AC office, never in the sun. The other 5% I'd carry it around to meetings in the same building.

Since I was using it so little as a portable, it actually outlasted my colleagues' ones by two generations! So, it wasn't just my particular one that was a piece of junk.

[tverbeure]

I’m anecdotally writing this on a 2012 15” rMacBook Pro that aside from some battery replacements just doesn’t want to die…

It blows all the “premium” work laptops out of the water.

[legitster]

> It blows all the “premium” work laptops out of the water.

I disagree. I loved my Thinkpad T450s so much I bought an identical used machine when I quit the job. Since then it's been stepped on, dropped onto concrete multiple times, had beer and wine spilled on the keyboard.

It cost me $250 + $100 for a battery replacement + $34 for a new keyboard (when the wine spilled on it, it still worked but the keys were sticky) + $150 to upgrade the RAM.

It's currently running Visual Studio Code, Photoshop, and prepping to run a pub trivia event later.

But this is all a digression - my larger point is that a $500 laptop bought today is going to have a lot more longevity than people will give it credit for.

[jacobgorm]

One caveat wrt the more recent mil-spec Thinkpads is that they broke the ergonomics by making the front edge razor-sharp, so that it really cuts into your wrists. I tried to work on my T14-2 on a long train ride, and the pain in my wrists the following days kept we awake at night.

See https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/hvb60f/thinkpad_t...

and https://twitter.com/jacobgorm/status/1496099294159544321 for an acceptable workaround using Sugru.

[tverbeure]

My daily Linux driver is a ThinkPad X220. $75 on eBay + another $120 for IPS LCD screen and an SSD. I use it when it really need Linux or when I’m on the go and don’t want to carry a 15” laptop. I wish they still had 1080p conversion kits for that one…

But my current Dell Precision from work is a spectacular nightmare POS.

[LouisSayers]

I'm also a big fan of the 2012 macbook pros. I only upgraded to an M1 mac end of last year.

I love that the older macbooks can be opened up and fixed if needed. I had to replace the HD connector a couple times (and learnt to add some electrical tape to stop the issue), and I recently cleaned the old CPU adhesive off and added some new (old macbooks can start to smell like Body odour!).

With 16GB of RAM the macbook performance is still decent, able to run docker and run modern IDEs.

It's a great machine. The only downside is that you can no longer update to the most recent OS versions.

[nibbleshifter]

In many cases a battery replacement = dead.

Im unsure about the 2012 MBP (not having had one), but if its an internal battery, battery death usually means user unfixable, for most users.

[tverbeure]

It’s not supposed to be user replaceable, but there are plenty of kits and YouTube videos available on how to do it.

[nibbleshifter]

Kits and YT videos pretty much always means "beyond the average consumer", meaning either paying a repair shop hundreds of euros in labour/profits, or just replacing the device.

[phoenixreader]

But there is a product defect class action lawsuit against Apple literally every two years. Apple must treat it as a cost of business at this point.

2009 (macbook display): https://www.crn.com/news/components-peripherals/222100056/ju...

2012 (Iphone display): https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/judge-tosses-lawsuit...

2013 (macbook motherboard): https://www.law360.com/commercialcontracts/articles/485286/a...

2015 (macbook motherboard): https://appleinsider.com/articles/15/01/09/judge-dismisses-l...

2017 (using refurbished parts): https://www.courthousenews.com/judge-kills-apple-warranty-cl...

2019 (butterfly keyboard): https://www.girardsharp.com/newsroom-news-apple-keyboard-ord...

All of them are dismissed. The last one got settled for $50 million, which is peanuts.

Edit: looks like the judge already dismissed this new one too...

https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/California_Northern_Distri...

(technically a different class action lawsuit, but it alleges the same facts)

[michaelcampbell]

> Apple must treat it as a cost of business at this point.

As should every company, because it is. Not saying Apple SHOULDN'T make decent equipment, but nothing is perfect so these things just have to be part of the accounting/business plan. They clearly are relying on their customers' brand loyalty as part of that calculation, and that + cheaping out or whatever else is causing these bi-annual issues is clearly more profit than fixing them.

[TacticalCoder]

> My 14" M1 MacBook Pro screen repair cost was $809.

I was quoted, for the MacBook Air screen repair (it died overnight), 490 EUR VAT included in Belgium. Paid the M1 MacBook Air 1020 EUR or so 10 months ago.

In addition to the price being ludicrous, I've got an interest close to zero in owning a laptop which can suddenly stop working for no reason.

Serious build quality issues: I think it's simply a piece of shit and has to be called for what it is, regardless of whether replacement parts are highway robbery (which they are) or not.

[9935c101ab17a66]

Do you have a photo of the crack before it was repaired?

Apple Technicians have access to a document that provides instruction on how to classify (in warranty / out of warranty) display cracks. There are actually plenty of display issues that look like the result of physical damage, but are instead categorized as 'in-warranty' by Apple's documentation.

Reach out to me at my username at gmail.com, I can maybe help you if you have a photo of the screen before it was replaced.

[threeseed]

I just had my 14" M1 MacBook Pro screen crack a few days ago and it was replaced for free.

Be curious about your circumstances whether it was repaired at an Apple Store and when this happened.

Perhaps there is a policy that isn't being disseminated around properly.

[vineyardmike]

My partner used to work as an apple support person. People break their shit all the time and try to pretend it wasn’t their fault because they don’t want to pay for a repair. How you ask and call has a huge impact on your success.

Another big impact: your purchase history. If you’ve owned every iPhone for the last decade and purchase it as soon as it comes out they will be much more lenient when you tell them it was cracked in box than if you have a single second hand iPhone SE that is cracked and the crack “totally happened on its own”. They want to protect their valuable customers.

But also as other commenters have said, it’s possible that apple knows this is a real issue and is addressing it differently now.

[asdff]

That seems like a scandal if they are looking at purchase history then basing repair protocol on that history

[Crosseye_Jack]

I've seen it happen outside of Apple, heck I've seen it outside the tech world. Company deems the damage to be out of warranty however after looking at the purchasing history/power of the customer and deeming them as "someone they don't really want to piss off" they will then offer a no cost repair/replacement as a "goodwill gesture".

Think of it like this:- You have 2 clients you sold widgets too that have come in for repair. Both widgets are beat the hell up like they were using them to hammer in nails and are both clearly out of warranty repairs.

One customer as other than this widget has 0 purchase history with 5 followers on twitter and the other has been buying goods since you were a start up and has a million followers.

Who would you be more inclined to make sure they are happy and who would you say "yeah I'll fix it, but its gonna cost you" to?

(For examples of something like this, see examples of people going virial on social media because something broke / got banned, timed it right, and suddenly it was magically fixed, within 24 hours, but your avg joe is stuck speaking to a chat bot for months on end).

[asdff]

It just seems like you are wide open to legal broadsides working with a policy like this. Basically you are turning your repair program into a class based program. Poor people are disadvantaged relative to your whales but that isn't clear to anyone using the service. IANAL but it seems like it could be easy money for a law firm on discrimination grounds if they had this sort of stuff on record from an apple employee.

[Crosseye_Jack]

If you make your warranty terms perfectly clear you will be fine, there is nothing stopping you from going above and beyond the terms at your own discretion.

You would have issues if your warranty said "we will cover you for (random thing plucked out of the air) battery replacements for the first 2 years" but would only replace batteries for your whales as you are in breach of contract with your non-whales.

You have to stick to what you agreed to with your customer in your warranty terms, but you are free to go beyond those terms at your own cost as you wish as customers were aware of your terms at time of purchase.

[namecheapTA]

Car dealerships do favors constantly for repeat customers that don't haggle to death during the purchase process.

[bozhark]

Sounds like Apple might be aware it’s their fault now.

Perhaps they were intending on keeping that a customer responsibility for the comment above yours.

[millzlane]

The warranty has always covered a single hairline crack.

If there are multiple cracks, chips, or a POI on the outside of the glass. It's clear as day what happened to the screen.

I can't count on my hands or toes how many people will say they don't know what happened to the physically damaged machine. Maybe someone else broke it and they didn't know. But I can tell you that we fix more physically damaged machines than we do single hairline cracks. So I would say this isn't a huge issue that people make it out to be.

I think it's more plausible that people are surprise that their really expensive super thin and sleek computer breaks when it's physically damaged.

[Crosseye_Jack]

To me the super thinness out right screams to being part of the cause.

Without taking one apart to confirm it for myself, going off past patterns I would guess Apple have thinned the lid and the display past its limits under every day use (not lab conditions). Pair that with People having got used to using a single hand to open/close their screen, heck even Apples marketing pushed one finger lid openning/closing. So people are not closing their screens "carefully" from both sides with two hands any more (and haven't been doing so for many years, as its easier to close a laptop lid than open it).

But with thinness comes lack of rigidity, so closing the screen with a single hand unless you do it smack bang in the middle I would guess is putting more strain on one side of the lid leading to a premeture screen failure.

Basically "Bendgate" all over again.

But its not the first time we seen screen issues on macbooks come to light once the devices where in the hands of real world people. Look at the stage light defect which for the longest time Apple denied as a fault https://support.apple.com/en-gb/13-inch-macbook-pro-display-... which turned out to be that the flex cable was just a smidge too short and repeated normal use damaged the flex cable.

I'm not saying the customers are not at fault. <edit>Heck I've seen plently of dropped devices and the customer swears on their first born they didn't do nothing. Until you point out the impact damage and suddenly it all comes flooding back to them.</edit> I just see a repeating pattern and would like to dig into it more before I dismiss the customer saying they don't know what happened.

[volkl48]

The tight closure with just about zero clearance and no bezel is a significant part of the difficulty.

Anything in there, even being closed gently and you notice at the first sign of resistance and correct it - has probably cracked the screen.

Charger/cable/pen tip is common, but even a paper clip could be enough. There's no audible crack and you think nothing of it until the next time you take it out of your bag and the display is broken. That said, this sort of thing will typically have a point of impact/multiple cracks, not just one straight line.

Plastic webcam covers will also do this, just less consistently - they hold the display open a bit and concentrate all the force of the closed lid there.

[TacticalCoder]

> I think it's more plausible that people are surprise that their really expensive super thin and sleek computer breaks when it's physically damaged.

Oh common: I've got four laptops here. They all work fine, including two ten years old MacBook Air (non M1): mine and the wife's.

I know how to take care of a laptop. Our M1 MacBook Air screen died overnight. Oh: and it had a protective cover.

[volkl48]

The magic term is this: "single hairline crack".

If there is one continuous crack with no point of impact or other obvious damage, it will generally be covered under warranty (assuming you are under warranty) and not considered accidental damage. That was policy in the past and I doubt it's changed.

If there is more than one, in any way - not covered unless someone's being nice to you.

[judge2020]

There would be consistent policy if an official recall was put out, but that looks even worse.

[madeofpalk]

How many years did it take for apple to issue their 'recall' (Service Program, in Apple parlance) for the butterfly keyboard woes?

[Phlarp]

2 years I think? But there was more pressure being applied in the media. I remember multiple articles like this one (0) that circulated at the time.

[0]https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is...

[rvz]

So after all the hype that I have heard about the Apple Silicon computers, it seems like it takes a screen crack to make it useless and issue a repair cost of almost the price of a new one.

Especially when as soon as the computer fails to boot or stops working, you have lost all data on the computer as the data cannot be recovered.

Sounds like a total scam. Glad I never bought one on launch day.

[z9znz]

Obviously there is a defect problem affecting some of the new Macbooks, and Apple needs to step up and take responsibility. But that said, I personally think the Apple Silicon computers (the Air in particular) are worthy of the hype.

This 1 year old M1 Air with 16GB RAM is twice as fast as my colleagues' Intel MBPs (comparing same year devices), and it's _silent_. It rarely even gets warm, even with Docker, several containers, JetBrains IDEs, Spotify, Firefox with a million tabs, etc. all going.

> the data cannot be recovered

For most HN readers, not having an adequate active backup/cloud sync system is difficult to imagine. When you can transfer about 1GB/s to a modern fast solid state external drive, plus we mostly have fast internet, it's easy to have live and periodic physical and remote backups.

If there's a scam to be found, it's that Apple has a real problem affecting more than a few users, but they are denying it. The scam is not in the computer but in the warranty/repair practices.

[rxhernandez]

Wasn't worth the hype for me at all. My m1 MBP might have better performance than my x1 carbon but my x1 walks all over the m1 in terms of software I can install thoughtlessly. I tried for months to get parallels + Ubuntu to do everything I needed it do to but I had to switch back to the x1 (which I could reformat today and have my productivity be the same within an hour); what a waste of time and money.

[2muchcoffeeman]

To be fair, if you really want to run Linux, why are you getting a MacBook? Plenty of better machines for that (with different trade offs) that are better suited to Linux.

[z9znz]

I'm 30% tempted to give Linux a full time try again, this time on a Framework laptop. I previously used a Dell XPS 15 (high spec), but it was loud and hot and not a pleasant experience.

[mplewis]

I returned my X1 due to poor thermal performance, bad Windows drivers, and incomplete Linux compatibility. I switched it out for an M1 Air which has been my favorite machine of all time.

[paulmd]

> Obviously there is a defect problem affecting some of the new Macbooks, and Apple needs to step up and take responsibility. But that said, I personally think the Apple Silicon computers (the Air in particular) are worthy of the hype.

> This 1 year old M1 Air with 16GB RAM is twice as fast as my colleagues' Intel MBPs (comparing same year devices), and it's _silent_.

According to the comments in the apple forum thread, this bug affects people with older Intel-based MBPs as well.

Taking the thread at face value, if this is a super common issue, then your coworkers should also have observed significant numbers of "random failures" on their legacy Intel MBPs because those laptops too are cited in that "50 page thread" as being subject to this supposed failure mode. Do you find that to match your experience?

It is, of course, unclear whether this is an actual issue, or just a catch-all for people who damaged their screens (micro-fracture) from various drops/impacts, and then over time the micro-fracture eventually worked and became a macro-fracture. They do that - glass can be damaged without actually being visibly damaged until you put it under a microscope, and then some later much smaller stress (even just thermal stress) causes it to fracture along the weak spot.

50 pages of people sounds like a lot, but Macs are the most popular single-series laptop in production (other laptops have more in total, but it's fractured over many manufacturers and series) and if that translates to 500 posts / 200 unique users who broke their screen, across 10 years of usage... that's not actually all that much, or that surprising.

Once it hits the internet it gets blown all out of proportion... remember when RX 480s were "killing motherboards", or NVIDIA GPUs killing themselves due to "bad drivers", or EVGA 1080s were "dying en-masse" due to bad VRMs? Remember POSCAP vs MLCC on Ampere GPUs? Once a social-media pitchfork mob gets started, it becomes basically impossible to measure because all kinds of random failures get attributed to The Current Thing and people trumpet every random failure as being evidence of it.

I'd believe there are some amount of "childhood mortality" in a screen - the person in this thread whose screen delaminated right in the middle after a couple weeks isn't the only person to have a bad screen. But it's very difficult to distinguish which users have that, and which users just dropped it and then later had a crack start working at that fracture point. And once it becomes public that there's "an issue" (regardless of if a significant issue actually exists) there is a huge amount of piling-in where everyone whose screen ever micro-fractured from a previous bump will pop up and tell you about their screen that "randomly shattered".

Genuine question but how is a manufacturer supposed to handle that? Let's say Framework puts out a glass screen model. Do you just give everyone who says their screen shattered a replacement screen? So you're providing unlimited warranty screens for customers who aren't being careful but know to say "it did that by itself"? Do you limit it to one freebie per customer? What if that one also shatters? Do you just do it for the first 3 months, and what happens when someone says theirs shattered after 4 months? And any customers you let fall through the cracks will post a thread like this one about how you've wronged them...

Worst of all Apple is involved here, and that just sets people off like crazy. I know I'm going to get various un-civil responses for all this. There’s no question that the design of the screen is certainly worryingly fragile, but, I really don’t think that all of these are truly manufacturing faults, they’re people bumping an overly fragile design and then later having a micro-fractured screen start working on them.

[heartbreak]

How did we get from a broken screen to unrecoverable data? MacBooks can book with an external display connected.

[ganbatekudasai]

I don't think one potential defect/quality/manufacturing issue in a particular model invalidates an entire platform.

[rowanG077]

While I believe $800 is way too much I do actually believe the screen is an extremely expensive component. It's a 120hz microled screen with a very good webcam. I wouldn't be surprised it's the most expensive part on a mbp.

[newaccount74]

I agree that the screen is fantastic, but you are wrong about the webcam. The webcam on the new 14"/16" Macbook Pros is complete crap.

[rowanG077]

Then why does the notch exist? And compared to what is it crap, webcams have always been utter shit if you compare it to smartphones or dedicated video cameras.

If I look at a review comparing the Intel based Mac webcam and the 14 inch Macbook pro webcam you see how insanely better it is: https://www.tomsguide.com/reviews/macbook-pro-2021-14-inch

[newaccount74]

I made some side by side photos and videos (that I don't want to share because of privacy) of Macbook Pro 2015, M1 Macbook Air 2020, 16" M1 Macbook Pro 2021, and the front facing camera of a cheap android phone.

My conclusion:

- the only good camera is the front facing camera of the cheap android phone

- the 2015 MBP camera has low resolution and lots of noise, but the image at least looks natural

- the images from the M1 Macs look very similar. They added extreme smoothing to hide the noise. The result is that there is no details at all in the images. Skin looks unnaturally smooth and facial hair is a blurry mess. When you move your head, there are weird artefacts near the eyes.

- comparing M1 Macbook Air 2020 and M1 Macbook Pro 2021 looks similar, except the smoothing seems even stronger on the 2021 Macbook Pro

- even in perfect lighting the resolution of the camera is very low. There is no way this is actually a 1080p camera. The 720p image of the 2015 Macbook Pro has more detail than the cameras in the new Macs.

- the only good thing about the cameras in the M1 Macs is the low light performance. The algorithm is pretty good at producing a usable image even in very low light.

It's really not a good camera. It really sucks. Everything else about this laptop is perfect: The display, the speakers, the keyboard -- everything is wonderful, apart from the fact that whenever I facetime with someone I look like a blurry mess.

[rowanG077]

Correction: MiniLED not microLED

[fezfight]

I wonder if Tim Cook has a lot invested in rare earth mining companies or something.

[umvi]

> My 14" M1 MacBook Pro repair cost was $809

My custom Ryzen 7/RX 570 Linux PC built from parts cost less than this, so a repair of this magnitude just boggles my mind. At that point just buy yourself a new computer.

[TheDong]

People just don't understand how good desktops are, right?

On my flight yesterday, when I pulled out my full tower Ryzen with 2x 3090 GPUs, I got told that the power outlet on the plane seat shouldn't be used for my 1200W power supply.

And yet, the same flight attendant said nothing to the macbook user a few rows over who was clearly plugged in. Frankly, it's appalling how few people understand that a cheaper desktop is comparable to a laptop.

[sseagull]

I mean, unless you are an extreme outlier, you spend more time on the ground than on an airplane. Why would you optimize for working on an airplane over your typical workday?

For me personally, 99.9% of my work is done at my desk (1), so why not have a more powerful, upgradeable, repairable computer to work with?

(1) I'm not hip enough to work from coffee shops

[jrockway]

I agree with you. When I travel I just take a tablet for some reading on the flight and maybe some light HN reading before bed. To do actual work, I kind of like my split keyboard, mouse, and 32 CPUs. I don't bother trying to get a ton of work done on the road; if I need to talk to someone in another state or country for work, we have video conferences now.

It's amazing how much shit you get on HN of all places for sitting at your desk programming.

[z9znz]

> extreme outlier

Contrary to popular myth, not all of us live and work in a basement. Myself and many people I know, my non-technical girlfriend included, use our laptops all around the country and in multiple other countries.

I do agree about upgradeable and repairable, which is why the Framework laptop is getting pretty attractive. But there's still nothing that compares in performance and portability to my M1 Air.

[runjake]

Right, that's why they said "outlier". Most people aren't going all around the country and multiple other countries. Most people sit at home on a computer, and sit at work on another computer.

Like you, I am also an outlier, using my MacbBok all over Hades.

[z9znz]

That also suggests that modern tech workers who have a hybrid work arrangement are outliers. That's getting to be a pretty large group.

Heck, even before COVID, my previous company only gave out laptops. Those things would get moved all around the office - from desk to desk, to multiple conference and meeting rooms, home, etc. This has been the norm for at least 5 years in my experience.

[threeseed]

> Most people sit at home on a computer, and sit at work on another computer

a) You don't know what most people do.

b) I would add that those of us that are in a hybrid mode e.g. working equally from home and work are given laptops specifically because we are expected to use the same computer in both environments.

[pmontra]

My work is done almost 100% at a desk, in different rooms of my home depending on the season (some get too cold or too hot) or on a whim. A desktop won't do. And sometimes I really take my laptop to somewhere else.

[sseagull]

Different strokes for different folks and all, but it's hard for me to imagine this. I have 3 large monitors, so even if I had a laptop I would want to move those around as well.

After working with large monitors, I don't know how anyone gets serious work done on a laptop screen.

I do have a laptop, but it is relatively inexpensive and used mostly as a thin client to my desktop (as others have mentioned).

Edit: I will also add, I like having a dedicated space for work. This prevents work from creeping into my life everywhere in my house. I can't be on the couch, watching a movie, and have the urge to work - I'm not in my work space!

[vladvasiliu]

I mostly agree with you, in that I usually find working on only a laptop screen frustrating and love having a dedicated work area.

But it depends on the task I do. For example, I quite enjoy working from my parents' garden when it's nice outside and if I do some focused work. Like reading some "long-form documentation" (where I don't need to follow it along as I apply it) or when I do some routine sysadmin work.

I have a big monitor (don't like having multiple monitors) at my parents' house, with a dedicated desk in a "work area". I also have this at home. And I also have this at the office. It's much more comfortable to move around these locations with a laptop than it would be to haul around a desktop, or have multiple desktops and having to keep them in sync. When I need actual horsepower, I have a Xeon workstation at my house, and my work allows me to leverage it remotely if needed. Guess what? I basically only turn it on for games.

[calsy]

This is all getting rather stupid. Laptop aren't for serious work? What planet are you on? You like stationary devices because you like to compartmentalise your life. Well thats great for you, but it's hardly normal.

[bsuvc]

I mostly work outside in an Adirondack chair, so for me, it does make sense to optimize for mobility.

I don't have a Mac though... Dell XPS 13 running Ubuntu works great for me. Never had an issue with the three I've had over the years.

[threeseed]

> For me personally, 99.9% of my work is done at my desk

And for many of us their computer is not used exclusively at a desk.

It's also used at work, on a couch, on a plane, in bed etc.

[smoldesu]

Yeah. Only thing I'll add is that I use my laptop as a thin-client, so I don't ever find myself pining for more power. Works great for watching YouTube, editing text and SSHing into my desktop via Tailscale when I want some more power. Using my Macbook in the same way is just more of a hassle, but that's probably because I don't use iCloud/the App Store...

[lttlrck]

You don't have to travel much at all before a laptop is essential.

And at that point I'd imagine it's way easier to optimize for mobility, for a vast majority of people - unless they're working entirely in virtual workspaces/the cloud - in which case a laptop is perfectly fine anyway.

[intrasight]

I too don't get this transition to working on laptops. What a crappy form factor. I do have two of them - and they get used about 2 hours per month on average.

[mikeryan]

I actually understand the subjective differences for people to choose a desktop over a laptop.

But I really don't get your point about form factor. Using, external monitors and adding a keyboard and mouse to a laptop is a non-issue.

[slicer2]

If you add external monitors, keyboard and mouse you just recreated non-mobile work environment that costs more money and has worse performance than workstation.

[calsy]

Would you be surprised if I told you that laptops have ports that allow for external devices like a display/keyboard/mouse.

Would it also surprise you that people would prefer a device that they can be used anywhere, rather than a fixed location.

The only way you could not get this transition is if you've never had to go anywhere outside your home.

[depr]

Next time bring a portable battery.

[rejor121]

It is pretty appalling. Much better to go through the hassle to bring my portable, solar rechargeable 1200 watt power generator onto the plane than it is to fork over the extra cash for those silly little lap warmers.

[kurupt213]

You should have shown her the daisy chain of 5v lithium batteries you used to power it. That really puts the stewardess in bitch-mode

[wtallis]

Is a desktop whose price doesn't include any display really the best comparison you could come up with for a discussion of laptop display repairs?

[brewdad]

The beauty of the desktop is that you can buy a display that fits your budget and needs. A desktop monitor that's equal to a typical 1080 laptop display can be had for $150. If you need something better, you can spend more but very few people will need to spend more than $500.

If it breaks, you plug in a new one at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the laptop repair with the only downtime being how long it takes to drive to the store.

[acdha]

This is like saying that you don’t think formalwear is a good deal because your Costco jeans are more durable. Desktops are great, I heartily recommend using them instead of laptops for most people, but it’s not especially revelatory to point out that laptops make design trade offs to hit their size & battery trade offs.

[jabbany]

Actually it really isn't.

The more expensive something is the higher the ongoing costs to maintain it. It's the same case with cars where more expensive ones are also more costly to maintain and fix.

When people buy a more luxury item, it's because there is something about the item that they value where no cheaper equivalent exists. MacBooks certainly have several such features: quality of display, ecosystem integration, form factor, battery life, speakers, aesthetics... These things might not be the same things you value, but for those who care it's just as important. This is also why some people buy luxury cars and others just get the cheapest whatever that gets them from A to B.

FWIW, I run an HP Ryzen laptop that cost me just $350. But I do so because the 2h battery, non-HDR (and probably not even 100% sRGB) 1080p screen, lackluster speaker, and "borderline serviceable" trackpad don't bother me at all. I would not buy a MacBook as it offers no features I care about at a significantly higher price, but I respect people who do buy MacBooks because they fit their needs.

[2muchcoffeeman]

There’s lots of things that are more expensive and last longer with no maintenance. There was an entire thread yesterday about how stuff doesn’t last as long and sometimes if you can afford it, you should pay 7x for a Vitamix or KitchenAid.

I’m not sure this compares to luxury cars, since MacBooks more than ever are more like appliances. So it’s arguable that paying more should get you a more durable product.

I mean there’s loads of people who have pre-shitty keyboard MacBooks that have lasted years. I have a great 2012 MBA that still works great and I paid a premium for it then. I’d be happy to pay a premium again for a similarly long lasting computer. You’re also paying the apple premium so that if something goes wrong, they fix it with little fuss. Something I have also used over the years.

[jabbany]

Not saying more expensive things don't last longer, just that usually it is not proportional to the price difference (and that's fine).

If you really want to compare, if I got a similar spec-ed MacBook to what I need, I'd have to spend easily $4k+. That means I can outright write off my current cheapish laptop 10+ times over the entire lifetime of an equivalent Macbook and I'd still be in the green.

Premium products are premium because you need them to do something that no other device can. Durability _could_ be a premium selling point for some stuff (tools for example), but for electronics and cars it almost never is. OTOH, I'd happily concede if someone wants to spend $3k+ just to get the better monitor or better battery life on the Macbook.

[deebosong]

That's how I feel about bikes. I like that enthusiasts get the really nice fancypants stuff. But if I'm gonna be doing my own maintenance, and riding for durability along with functionality, then the lower end stuff ends up being more for me than the latest & greatest.

[jabbany]

Yeah, I have a friend who has a nice fancy carbon fibre bike meanwhile I just have a random no-name brand because it does everything I need it to do for commuting and I don't care that it weighs several kilograms more...

[thomas-st]

Honestly, if I had broken the screen, this seems like a fair cost for a new display like this. Apart from the the cost, I'd also like to mention the repair process (via mail at their Houston repair facility) was very speedy. I got a quote within hours of them receiving the product, and it was shipped the next day after I approved. The supervisor mentioned that if they ever set up a repair program for this issue, they will refund the fee.

Now, if only they could also fix the audio crackling issue that me and many other users are experiencing... (https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/s4r1m5/macbook_...)

[xdfgh1112]

Wow you praise Apple even after they screwed you! The cult of Apple is still going strong!

Edit: parent was made to pay 800 dollars for a screen breaking which wasn't his or her fault, but still goes on to say "they said they might refund it later" and "the repair was quick". The rationalisation is painful to read.

[thomas-st]

To be clear, it's completely unacceptable they are charging for this repair. My intent was to give some perspective on how the repair process went overall, I needed the device back for work.

While apart from the cracked screen issue the hardware is amazing in my opinion, the overall software issues make using macOS painful sometimes (processes running at high CPU -- now mostly offloaded to the efficiency cores, WebKit views having issues loading, anything syncing to iCloud sometimes not working, sometimes working on the 2nd try, Messages/Apple Mail search only finding some of the messages, audio crackling issues with wired headphones/AirPods/built-in speaker, etc.)

[sva_]

I had a warranty on my Lenovo laptop included for which a guy came to my house and replaced the defective part at no extra cost - within 3 days of reporting it and almost 3 years after buying the laptop.

The laptop cost me around 1200 Euro in total.

[josephcsible]

> if I had broken the screen

But the whole point is that it's Apple's fault that these screens are breaking, not the users'.

[numlock86]

What boggles my mind is why you didn't get a computer with a Centrino Core 2 Duo with an integrated graphics card.

> Ryzen 7/RX 570

At this point just buy yourself a couple of used computers.

[aaaaaaaaaaab]

May I ask how long the battery lasts on your your Ryzen 7/RX 570 Linux PC?

[jxy]

You can last a "full day" on AAA batteries. A manageable configuration is likely double-suitcase with copper link, each contains 10000 Alkaline AAA batteries.

[Krasnol]

A CMOS battery lasts probably something around 5 years.

[qbasic_forever]

Does it scale down your graphics and sound to look like Tiger handheld LCD games when you're gaming on the CMOS battery?

[Krasnol]

I plug it in just the same way I'd do with a gaming laptop.

[ReadTheLicense]

The cheapest comparable desktop display costs $1500 (27 inch)...