Ask HN: How to stop worrying and start enjoying?

[anxiouspete]

Hi HN,

I am a worrier. I worry about things that I should worry about, but I also worry deeply about hypothetical situations that will probably never happen. These can be to do with work, money, personal, life, you name it. You could even call it paranoia.

I am capable of idenfting the real threats from the fake ones, the ones that are extreme worst case scenarios - but I'm very bad at controlling them and letting go of them. Sometimes they can haunt me for weeks at a time.

This is of course deeply unpleasant and massively instrusive to the extent where I don't really enjoy daily life anymore.

I was wondering if anyone here has experienced these challenges and how they worked to overcome them.

All the best

[ericabiz]

You've got a couple options, both of which involve seeing someone to help.

First, consider a psychiatrist for some anxiety medication. Mine put me on gabapentin, which is mild, but yours may recommend something different. That takes the edge off. It does help.

Second, find a cognitive behavioral therapist in your area! If you don't know where to start, try psychologytoday.com -- they have listings. Look for someone who does CBT specifically.

CBT really helps with your type of anxiety, because it helps you re-train your brain. It does take time, but using CBT, you can unwind these thoughts and stop them before they start.

If you're not familiar with the world of psychiatry and therapy, please note that a psychiatrist and a CBT therapist are 2 different people. Psychiatrists prescribe medication. Therapists help you work through your anxiety. Both are incredibly useful, and I recommend you utilize both.

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. However, I have studied this extensively, and run a private FB group for entrepreneurs with ADHD, anxiety, and depression, so I have some incentive to "get it right", so to speak.

[character0]

Seconding both of these. However, I might suggest re-ordering and give therapy a shot before you go down the psychiatrist/prescription route.

[ChuckMcM]

I was going to say something similar. From the description it sounds like generalized anxiety. Talking with a therapist can help you figure out what you might be subconsciously worrying about.

[logosmonkey]

This is the exact path I took, completely changed my life! It's not an easy or fast process but it's worthwhile and can yield significant results.

[superasn]

Try doing the vertical arrow technique by David burns (google it) to see if it helps.

Basically sometimes the thing you're worrying about isn't actually the thing that is the core of your worry and this technique helps a lot with that.

For example if you're worrying about going out ask what does it really mean.. you'll come up with something like "the other person may not like me" again what does it mean "I'm a total bore" what does it mean "I'll be alone and lonely", etc. Once you get to the bottom of it then put the cognitive distortions and rational explaonations as explained.. the bottom line is when you write things down it becomes easy to see where the distortions are and fix them. But you will need to do it a lot and soon you may starts seeing results. Of course it's just my 2 cents and so ymmv.

[FigmentEngine]

sounds like "five whys" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys

[personlurking]

YouTube has videos on the downward arrow technique [1], not sure if it's the same.

I originally heard/read something similar, of all places, from Dr Phil in the late 90s. IIRC, he spoke of a middle-aged man wanting a red sports car and why he might want that sports car. Let's imagine it's cause he wants to feel young again. Why does he want to feel young again and what are all the other ways he could achieve that? And what if he wanted to feel young again because that's when he felt the most freedom? So, he wants freedom, not to be young, and not the red sports car. What are all the ways he could regain that feeling? And so on, and so forth, until one thinks they've gone down deep enough.

1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3hMmZQAdhw (9 min)

[dplgk]

What's the call to action when you get to the bottom? Let's say you end with "I'm afraid I'm a total bore". Then what?

[trevyn]

This is super simple. Use your conscious mind to program your unconscious mind.

Do this by deciding how you want to think and act, and then consciously think those thoughts and do those actions, no matter how awkward it feels or how silly it seems. You are simply intentionally programming your subconscious. The weird incongruent feeling that pops up is what it feels like when your subconscious protests.

Laughter is a great substitution, it is hilarious some of the imagined threats that people come up with.

Your subconscious is only a pattern-matching-and-producing machine. Repeat the correct thoughts and actions often enough, and it will adapt to the new pattern. It may take a few days or weeks to start to notice, and it will only be a subtle shift at first, but it will happen.

Also, stop reading or watching anything that triggers the wrong emotions.

[hluska]

So, reprogramming how your brain works is 'super simple'??

[trevyn]

Yep! You’re doing it all the time by deciding what to put into it!

[hluska]

Speaking as someone who worked very hard to overcome some problems with anxiety, I can tell you it is certainly not 'super simple'. It was very hard work and I had a wonderful psychologist to help guide me through.

People who suffer should have hope, but telling them it is 'super simple' sets them up for a nasty fall. It's a battle against years of habits.

[trevyn]

You took one path, and I’m glad it worked for you. There are other paths, too.

[wilsonnb2]

For a period of a few months a couple years back, I was extremely worried about my house being broken into while I was asleep. Eventually it got bad enough to effect be seriously effecting my sleep. I would stay up late worried about it until I basically couldn't stay up anymore.

One of the things that helped me the most was sitting down and thinking, if I was going to break into someone's house, would I choose this one?

There ended up being a lot of reasons not to break into my house. We always kept our front and rear porch lights on. We had houses extremely close by on both sides, so the chances of being seen are much higher than if you broke into one of the houses at the edge of our little neighborhood. We had two larger dogs that would definitely bark if anyone unfamiliar so much as walked by. There were much larger and nicer houses nearby to break into instead.

This thought experiment didn't put the irrational part of my brain to rest immediately, but it did help considerably with the anxiety. Eventually my anxiety went away entirely - I think it was being caused by the fact that I was out of work at the time and facing a lot of stress trying to find a job. It just happened to manifest as an irrational fear of break ins.

Anyways, I recommend anyone suffering from excessive anxiety talk to a professional about it. However, it can take a long time to get an appointment depending on where you live, so I would recommend my strategy as an interim measure while you wait.

For what it's worth, I've also had a phobia of spiders my entire life and have recently been applying a similar technique to fix it. Watching videos of spiders on the internet, especially videos of people handling spiders, has decreased the anxiety I experience around them significantly. I can even kill them by myself now, instead of freezing up and asking my wife to do it. I hope to keep working on it until I feel comfortable enough to either not kill them and just let them be, or to transport them outside.

[logosmonkey]

That's actually close to what CBT is. You start asking yourself how likely the worse case scenarios you worry about are and what the more likely results are.

[shamino]

This is what I learned from Dale Carnegie, which seems to help. Imagine the very worst thing that can possibly happen, and try to imagine your life with that reality. See that it's not actually so bad. Then, do everything you can to prevent that from actually happening. Taking action, instead of thinking about it, helps. Also, distract yourself with positive relationships and exercise.

And a quote which is a little lighthearted - Michel de Montaigne said: “My life has been filled with terrible misfortune; most of which never happened"

[neverartful]

Not sure if the part you suggested is from the book or not, but OP might want to read Dale Carnegie's How to Stop Worrying and Start Living book.

[coverup]

I've struggled with this too, and one thing I found really helpful was to start keeping a diary--in particular, of the hypothetical situations you're worried about.

I found that after a while, when I would go back and read what I was worrying about, say, a month prior, it seemed so alien and absurd that it helped a lot to put my current worries in perspective.

Best of luck to you.

[vfinn]

I came to say this. Write down the things you worry about as honestly you can. The end result is that your worries become more tangible and easier to judge.

[rdiddly]

It's too bad I can't really recommend "Have your life ruined" as a cure for worrying, because it works like a charm. Not only do big, real problems put little, hypothetical ones out of your mind toute de suite, they also give you a chance to prove to yourself, in your handling of them, that you might possess enough wits, resources, badass characteristics, or simply patience with situations that truly suck ass, to actually handle most problems big or small, and know that you'll be pretty much okay no matter what happens.

Some people worry because of things they've been through, but if you're the type who worries about things you've never been through and will probably never go through, going through some actual shit will put an end to that. It worked for me. A several-year period that included the deaths of loved ones, long-term unemployment, divorce, etc., made me start focusing on what's important and, more to the point for your question, completely stop worrying about stuff that's not important. It sucked though, and it's really not the sort of thing you can plan, per se. But I came out of it and now it's like, yeah go ahead and try to threaten me... I'm not scared of anything after all that!

[amorphid]

I identify with much of what you say. For a long time I did not have the skills to deal with these feelings. Now I do, but it's always hard. A lot of this I got from about 18 months of cognitive behavioral therapy.

Here are some general tips that work for me:

1. Feelings do not need to drive how I make decisions. I have them, and work on ways to let them pass.

2. To deal with things I worry about, I confront my worries by trying, making mistakes, and learning from the experience.

3. I get better at things I can control myself, practice finding alternative approaches for things I can't control, try to steer clear of stuff that is just gonna be a problem for me, and accept that sometimes I'm gonna have to endure shit that rolls my way

4. It's a lot easier to feel good when I'm actively seeking out things to enjoy, and lately I've found a lot of joy in pole dancing (and I'm 43 y/o overweight male couch potato!)

5. Unsecured debt sucks and always makes me feel like crap & that makes everything I do harder

I believe you can be a confident badass if you want to be. If you wanna vent w/o judgement, hear my story, or chat in general, my email is in my profile.

I wish you success on your journey to less angst & more satisfaction!

[sjg007]

5. Unsecured debt is unsecured! You should feel free by that! They took the risk on you! If you can't pay, don't.. yes your credit will hurt and it will hurt some future plans potentially but at the same time it is not the end of the world.

[amorphid]

I see you've never had student loans in the USA :) There's no way to escape those unless you're in a permanent coma and Obama is still POTUS.

[sjg007]

Student loans are secured. They are secured to your future income, tax refunds, and social security. Only dischargeable in extreme hardship. They are basically the most secure debt in the country.

[DoreenMichele]

1. If you are running a fever, short of sleep or otherwise physically wracked up, it doesn't count. Just let it go later when the fever breaks or you finally get some sleep or whatever.

2. Don't just let these ruminations run wild. Ask yourself what outcome you would like to see. Try to figure out a way to imagine coming up with an excellent solution.

3. "Count your blessings." Stop and list some of the things that are going right. On any given day, you are likely to have a column of bad news and a column of good news. We tend to pay more attention to the bad news. You can give push back against that human tendency.

4. Eat something, drink something, take a nap and/or "stop and smell the roses." When you are falling apart emotionally, spend a few minutes engaging in self care. It can make a big difference.

[peterkelly]

It sounds like you may be suffering from OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder). One of the more common symptoms is excessive worrying about seemingly trivial things, to the point of becoming obsessed with ways in which they could go wrong, often coupled with excessive checking and avoiding certain situations.

With OCD you can often intellectually identify things as real/fake, but another part of your mind takes over and overrides those and triggers worrying even when it's unwarranted.

I would strongly recommend consulting with a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis, and advice on how to proceed. I've gone through a couple of pretty bad episodes with this, and have been helped immensely by a combination of CBT (cognitive-behavioural therapy) and prescribed medication. Of course everyone's situation is different; but it's definitely worth seeking professional help.

[asdsa5325]

This does not sound like OCD.

[andrei_says_]

Have you considered taking a break from worrying for a short period of time?

Set a timer for 1 minute and give yourself a vacation from the world. A total permission to drop worrying about anything, with the reassurance that no negative consequence will result from that 60-second interruption.

During this minute, notice any impulse to engage in fixing, improving, changing things in any way, and drop it. It’s helpful to visualize yourself dropping the thought off the edge of a cliff.

At the end of the 60 seconds look around and note that there are no disasters. Feel the sensations in your fingers and toes and notice that you’re safe from immediate danger.

This is a very practical approach of retraining the mind’s habit.

When this is easy, increase to 5 minutes. The timer is important as your mind needs the reassurance.

This is one practical way you can get out of anxiety loops. Attempt it and see what happens.

Worked for me. Now I am capable of dropping the worry at will.

[davebryand]

Meditation can help you get meta on the process so that you can watch yourself getting worried and recognize it as something that is of the mind. As you start to see the patterns on how worry develops in your mind, you can start to choose your response. Once you can choose your response, you can decide if you want to take action or if you want to let them go.

Once you are outside of the worry spiral and see it for what it is, you may find that not only do you not have to worry about these hypothetical situations, but that there is nothing at all to worry about in this single iteration that you're taking through the simulation.

EDIT: Highly recommend Transcendental Meditation. Here is some info on their anxiety results: https://www.tm.org/reduced-stress-and-anxiety

[jason_slack]

Meditation has been extremely helpful for me. I am happy to talk about this if there is interest.

[nadezhda18]

sooo second on that

plus doing sports like jogging, stretching; this helped me a lot to calm me down and get rid of mood swings

[badminton1]

Certain level of paranoia can actually be beneficial in some lines of work.

Bobby Fischer suffered from severe paranoia and constantly feared being poisoned among other unlikely things. But that flaw was also a great source of strength when he played chess.

Andrew Grove, co-founder of Intel, wrote a book called "Only the Paranoid survive". An example of how some level of paranoia can help you as a CEO.

I think the secret is: balance. Surely bad things can happen: we can choke like eating, or hit by space debris and die but winning the lottery is probably more likely.

[zer00eyz]

Lets put a different spin on this.

You realize that "I also worry deeply about hypothetical situations" is something that many people can't or won't do.

Have you ever shared with someone one of your issues (maybe something more mundane) and they blew it off only to have exactly that outcome (and then had to bite your tongue instead of saying I told you so?) Maybe you thought of it and didn't say it and kicked yourself for NOT bringing it up.

If you can do this then you may have a skill (and one that is somewhat unique).

The worry part, and the fact that it is chronic and haunting is a problem.

For me, It stopped when I realized that I wasn't getting to enjoy things in my life due to the worry. I made a lot of changes on the way. I embraced the fact that I was going to die - and that it was out of my control - you could get hit by a bus staring at your phone one day... a jet engine could fall out of the sky and kill you. I had to embrace the fact that I could not change the world only my role in it. I had to embrace the fact that anything I paid for was replaceable. That I could always find another job - that if I had to I could live in a shelter or a trailer or my car - because it would only be temporary because I could make it better. It took a LONG time and a LOT of self talk. It took a few bad things happening that were easily avoidable but also less of a real problem then what I made them out to be.

IF you don't think you can do this, or it won't work for you, then seek professional help - it works for a lot of people and may work for you.

[hubby]

My wife has the same exact issue. She will ruminate for weeks about things that don't matter but to her could put her in an awkward situation. Her anxiety can bring out the worst in her towards people who love her most and causes me anxiety/stress because I know what situations trigger her. It makes me want to hate her, to be perfectly honest. I know that is of no help to you, but reading this made me want to vent.

[anxiouspete]

No, not at all. It's good to vent! I hope your wife can find herself at ease soon. It's fucking shit to be like this

[chillwaves]

Some people seem to radiate neurosis and spread it to any susceptible minds, including family, friends and pets.

[mrburton]

There's no easy answer, but let me share how I function and deal with stress.

1. Remember, you worry because you /can't/ absolutely control the situation; sometimes you can influence it. 2. In the grand scheme of things, anything you produce good/bad will eventually be forgotten; sooner than you think. 3. Embrace failure and mistakes. They will happen and the only thing you can control, is how you react and deal with them. 4. When something starts to deeply stress you out, take a moment and say to yourself "Fuck it, let me move on right now and come back to this later. 5. Let me repeat this one item again...

You can only control how you think and how you react. Focus on what you can control and let what you can't control do its thing.

Learn to take your mind off of things once in a while. That's why a lot of founders try to use the weekend as a moment to forget about work.. or at least try to :)

Stay mentally positive, stay up beat and remember life is short. So in the time being enjoy it! If you really feel helpless, that's your mind telling you to "Go change yourself!" its not "Go give up" we always misread that emotion.

[mahesh288]

You might want to talk to closest people and share your feelings. Comforting words and having people who care you can improve your mindset. I am not an expert but a suggestion.

[joslin01]

What are you protecting if you're spending all your time protecting it? What are you really scared of?

Sometimes we're using our worries as deflections of a bigger problem or lack we feel in ourselves. Sometimes we think happiness only comes in the way we know and we gotta protect it. But does it really matter in the end? If you don't fear death (and not invite it either), what could haunt you?

[mancerayder]

Try evaluating theoretical events with a probability rating. It doesn't have to be crazy specific, for example: you're worried about your boss being mad at you and firing you next week because you heard there might be some layoffs. Real threat, uncertainty, the worst of it. You ask, is there a greater than 50 pct chance or less than 50 pct chance that this can happen? It's not meant to be scientific, only build perspective. And also it helps acknowledge that the threats ARE real, without letting them suffocate.

Another way to build perspective is to triage between something you have control over (test coming up: well, one can study more) versus something you don't (I'm really worried about the storm they're talking about on Saturday).

The brain likes to loop and build habits. Building perspective consciously when you sense the negative thoughts is one way to 'exercise' the mind to build habits to have better perspective.

[sjg007]

I always keep the frame of mind that you cannot really predict if you will be subject to a lay off or if you will get hit by a car walking down the street. And if you could predict it, then why not apply for another job if you think it will happen! So it's a very unlikely possibility.

[lioeters]

I think worry, anxiety and paranoia are normally healthy instincts (planning for the future) that got out of control. From the description, it sounds like that "circuit" has gone overdrive and this generally anxious state has become habitual.

As others have noted, and from my own experience, I believe you can self-program or (de-)hypnotize yourself, to enforce healthier thought/behavior patterns consciously. Sometimes, the help of others is just what you need, whether it's spouse, friend, or a professional. The unbalance ("disorder") could have hormonal/chemical causes too, so would recommend plenty of sunshine, exercise (oxygen), balanced diet, vitamins..

I'll also echo another commeter's emphasis on the value of humor to alleviate worries and have a more open outlook on life.

[VarFarYonder]

Strip it back to basics.

What is worry? It is when you're compelled to react to a thought with more thoughts. The response is habitual. You cannot let the thoughts sail by without commenting on them.

So the real question is not how to stop worrying, but how to weaken the habit of reacting to specific thoughts.

I think takes time to find an approach that works -- to discover how to both weaken the habit and how to not strengthen it. It's a lifestyle change. Some trial and error is probably necessary.

I don't think there is a magic solution. Try various things, learn how your current mental life causes you to worry. You'll try something, and your worries might increase. So try something else. And when you notice that some change, after some time, has caused you to worry slightly less, stick with it.

[minikomi]

You're over-analyzing things before they happen and not reflecting enough. Get a blank book and write down your worries with a lot of space underneath to spare. After a week, revisit the book, and see if they came true or not. If they came true, write underneath how you handled them and what they taught you, and how you can move forward with that experience. If they didn't come true, write how you overcame them without worry, or why they were silly to begin with. Do this for a few months. Revisit the filled in pages regularly.

The idea is to reframe your worries as either teaching experiences, or as silly/easy to overcome.

[sj3k]

This was me several years ago. I did a couple small things that changed my life in a big way. See a psychiatrist to talk through your problems. It may help you identify why you worry so much.

When you feel the worries coming on, make a conscious effort to calm yourself; and be nicer to yourself. You are awesome. You are great at handling any issue. Repeat it over and over and over. Take care of yourself.

Make an effort to be more mindful. Stop and smell the roses every once in a while :)

[stephenbez]

There is an awesome book written on this exact topic: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NCV2RIR/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... "How to stop worrying & start living" by Dale Carnegie

It has very actionable and simple advice. I've given the book to many people and they all have liked it.

[robg]

How is your sleep? You'll find an active literature on how anxiety affects sleep, but less so on how lack of sleep makes anxiety much worse.

https://adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/related-illnesses/sle...

The starting point for you might be improving your sleep habits first.

[mamcx]

A unorthodox idea from a guy that know nothing:

Turn your worries into histories. Make it a novel, comics, fan-fiction or similar. I'm too lazy and no even write then, just play it into the head. Because, what if somebody read about them!

> I also worry deeply about hypothetical situations that will probably never happen

This mean you are good at build plots! Take a look at https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/ and http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/search_result.php?q=plot.

For example, I was thinking this past week when I was into a stresfull bug hunting that turn to be a compiler bug (how unexpected!):

"but what if I'm a pacifist that enjoy kung-fu and live in a place where I can't decide to not fight?"

https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/114706/mar...

And boom! is solved.

---

Turning worries in histories allow to counter them. You can insert a hero, and let he handle it. Then, obviously, you will start worry more. "What if he need to defeat the dinousaur with lasers but a carnivorous-plant that is also poisoned with stuff that conveniently cause depression symptoms to the hero, now how can he fight it? AND IS RAINING!"

So, instead to fight all the time, you let it flow, but make it flow INTO A RIVER YOU OWN.

I don't say this work all the time, but is good for me.

[blunte]

I recommend you read, or if speech is your thing, get the audio book of The Power of Now, by Eckhart Tolle.

It's basically written to help people "solve" this problem that you describe.

Another book that is far less articulate, but still worth a read, is F*ck It, by John C. Parkin.

[p0wn]

I'm currently reading this book - Waking Up - A guide to spirituality without religion. It tackles being present and in the moment. This might help - anecdotally it's helping me.

[amirathi]

A question that helps me in these scenarios:

Is this thing going to matter 10/20 years from now? You'll be surprised how few things really matter in grand scheme of things.

[option_greek]

Anecdotal: Try probiotics, drinking kefir helped me relax. After some search online, I came to know that it is expected. YMMV.

[interdrift]

Learn to accept life as a bit of a joke and try to face everything that you choose to do with your whole heart

[wisienkas]

The best books I ever read to challenge those worries was:

- The subtle art of not giving a F*

- The rational Male

- No more mr. nice guy

[mabynogy]

You can go to a church and pray. Maybe some of your worries are justified.