[embro]

Right now, even with surge, they seem to be a bit cheaper than the normal city taxi but I would bet that as soon as there will be no more competition they will raise the price AND still do price surge. In the end, we will pay more than we used to.

Uber seem to be always on the edge between aggressive profit and shady business.

EDIT: Don't think by my comment that I meant the taxis are better. I was just saying that right now, this is a great deal in most cities where Uber does offer their services but seeing how hungry they are for max profit, I doubt this will last and eventually we will realize that a broken system was replaced by another broken one.

[JumpCrisscross]

Many years ago, when I shared my New York apartment with others, a relationship developed between me and my roommate. He is a Brown -educated architect/designer. I, at the time, was an entry-level analyst. From time to time, but at least a few times a week, I'd have to walk to the avenue with him to hail a cab. Because he was black.

I'm not wedded to Uber out of principle, but I'm staunchly against our taxi establishment for it.

[pessimizer]

I'm a black man who lives in Chicago, and rarely have trouble getting a cab, dodged by maybe 1 in 10. In an Uber world where the cab companies have been driven out of business, and captured city governments allow taxi services to regulate themselves (like Uber and Lyft are asking for), people who don't have smartphones might as well start walking now. Or they can call the fly by night unregulated services that will operate in their neighborhoods by phone, and have the equivalent of surge pricing 24h a day. Or hail unmarked gypsy cabs and maybe end up dead.

I've been black all over America, often not hardly middle-class, the [edit: taxi] situation is not that dire in the 21st century, and Uber are not civil rights workers - you still have to find one that will go where you live.

edit: Not that I don't believe that your neighborhood was particularly racist, but I'll put our Chicago racists against anyone else's racists. I think the largely immigrant workforce driving taxis (especially Nigerians) are more likely to pick me up out of affinity than one might think.

[stephenr]

You think uber of all companies would have stood up for equal rights back then? They don't even follow the law now, what makes you think they'd have done the right thing then?

[rspeer]

Uber bans tipping. It collects the same amount of money regardless of who the passenger is. An Uber driver has no reason to use blunt heuristics (such as skin color) to try to visually identify fares who have more money.

[gre]

Uber now allows tipping.

http://www.startribune.com/tip-sheet-should-you-tip-your-ube...

[rspeer]

Well, that sucks.

Sounds like Uber is letting its drivers make up their own rules to continue the fiction that its drivers are "independent contractors". If they keep doing that they'll be as unaccountable for customer service as the average taxi dispatcher.

[mrits]

I really doubt tipping is the primary reason.

[samueloph]

Where i live, we're not used to tipping, is that really a big thing considered by taxi drivers when picking someone? Because we don't have tipping and the racist drivers acts the same.

[sp332]

https://medium.com/matter/ubering-while-black-146db581b9db It certainly seems to be in their favor to be less racist. http://fusion.net/story/170983/uber-racial-politics/

[CamperBob2]

But the laws that they don't follow have very little to do with doing the right thing. As far as I'm concerned, Americans have a patriotic obligation to disobey corrupt laws like government-sanctioned taxi medallion monopolies. Those laws are no different than handing out tickets for doing 56 MPH in the middle of the desert... which also would still be the case if drivers hadn't protested the law by rendering it unenforceable.

Whether Uber would have behaved more ethically than taxi companies with regard to racial bias, I don't know. An Uber driver has no idea what the race of his/her next client is. It would require some genuinely evil behavior on Uber's part just to support racial bias, much less carry it out.

[stephenr]

There are cases of Uber drivers not carrying passengers who have a fold-up wheelchair.

Then you have the whole "they aren't really employees" thing.

They (and Lyft et-al) all claim to be "empowering the sharing economy" and call themselves "ride sharing". Ride sharing is if I'm going to the shops, and offer someone else a ride to go there too.

Driving around in my private car and picking up people who want to go places, with exactly fuck all regulation, is just being an illegal taxi, which brings me to your "patriotic" argument.

> Americans have a patriotic obligation to disobey corrupt laws

So, any law that any american thinks is corrupt, they have a duty to break? Or, are you the arbiter of what's corrupt and what isn't?

> Those laws are no different than handing out tickets for doing 56 MPH in the middle of the desert

The difference is, if you break that law, you're probably only affecting yourself, or the people you know in your car.

Uber & Lyft together spent 8 million fucking dollars, campaigning for the right to self-regulate themselves, because they think a fingerprint background check is too onerous.

So sure, the medallion system might be fucked. But on the plus side, the taxi industry is actually regulated and follows the laws that are put in place to protect the fucking customers.

[golergka]

US in general have been more liberal on federal level and more racist on a more local level (especially in Souther state). Take civil rights act of 1875 as an example. So, a bigger company, working on a federal level in almost all the states would certainly be less prone to racism than a small cab operation run by a couple of guys from a shady garage.

[sillysaurus3]

For what it's worth, here are the prices of my last few uber rides:

  $4
  $4
  $2
  $2
  $2.50
  $1.75
  $2
  $2
  $3.75

These prices are so low that it would be more expensive to take public transit, let alone a taxi. The trips were pretty far, too.

It's obvious that this can't last, but it's pretty great for the moment.

EDIT: A few clarifications: These were in Chicago, and I haven't omitted any rides from this sample. Those really are the last 9 UberPool rides.

The reason it's so cheap is because Uber keeps carpet bombing my phone with 50% and 75% off promo deals. I don't know why. The two types of deals are "Your next 5 rides are 50% off" and "All rides between 4pm and 7pm are 75% off."

[noobermin]

Here are my last few uber rides

  $18.94
  $13.87
  $ 7.68
  $13.99
  $11.22
  $40.05
  $12.71

Some were far, some not, obviously. They are spread over a few months, obviously, given the price of a typical uber, I am not prone to using it often. It does still beat a taxi, though.

Just balancing out what seems to be a biased sample.

[akhilcacharya]

I think I can beat you here.

14.60

15.52

17.23

0.00

49.52

36.62

The last two were from SFO to Palo Alto. In all honesty $50 for a 50 minute drive isn't that bad, but I didn't pay for it either.

[wamatt]

You might want to check out Lyft. Been using their 'Line Ride' product as it's currently 50% off (at least in Bay Area).

If their growth team wants to throw VC money our way to keep me on board, why not? Recently commuting from Palo Alto to Mountain View pretty regularly and paying around $7/$8. PS Not affiliated, just a happy user.

[nihonde]

Not to mention that competition between Uber and Lyft will benefit all passengers.

[DrScump]

When you have just two companies competing in a space, that's not true competition; that's a cartel.

[akhilcacharya]

I didn't want to be stuck with the tab at the end of my trip, so I just followed the company guidelines for reimbursement - they had an expense account for the other 2 rides I took from HQ to hotel.

[nedwin]

I've had a couple of zeros or very cheap fares in last couple of days as well. What was this zero in your case?

[nommm-nommm]

Not the GP but Uber has its Android Pay promo going right now, that was my last freebie.

[akhilcacharya]

I gave a referral code to my parents and used up the bonus.

[microcolonel]

I can tell you that downtown rides are about this cheap on Uber here in Toronto.

Scale is a big factor as well, maybe you're in a place with fewer drivers, or posher folks?

[noobermin]

Can you clarify? You mean cheap as sillysaurus3's prices or mine?

We are a "smaller city", large population but a little sparse.

[HappyTypist]

You're part of an extremely limited test group aimed at calculating the price elasticity of Uber.

[vadym909]

They are just trying to get you hooked and habituated because once you get accustomed to it- they know you will be a life (or at least a very long term) customer.

[spike021]

Plus the $5 base fee, right?

So that's not nearly cheaper than taking public transit.

For example if I get an uber ride between my apartment and the train station, it's close to $2-3, but that's on top of the $5 base fee. So I could either pay $7-8, or I could pay $2 for the bus.

[johnloeber]

No, there's no $5 base fee for UberPool (at least not in Chicago).

[sillysaurus3]

Just double-checked the banking records. There's no base fee.

[CaptSpify]

Where do you live that theres a base fee?

I've never heard of that

[Nullabillity]

In Stockholm there's a 40kr (~$5) base fee for UberX: https://www.uber.com/cities/stockholm

For UberBLACK that's 50kr (~$6), and UberLUX starts out at 100kr (~$12).

[flashman]

> The reason it's so cheap is because Uber keeps carpet bombing my phone with 50% and 75% off promo deals.

Does this affect how much the driver receives? E.g. do they receive a share of the full fee, or the discounted one?

[nudgeee]

Their payout is based on the full fare.

[lifeformed]

What city?

[blhack]

I saw prices like this in Mumbai.

[baddox]

Shhh, don't tell Uber/Lyft, but I would gladly pay more than taxi rates to use their service. In my view, price is hardly the primary advantage they have over taxis.

[zyxley]

For me, this starts with my complete distrust of metered taxi pricing in the first place. Literally every taxi ride I've ever had in the States had the driver take a longer route than they could have just gotten from Google, sometimes to the point of absurdity.

With Uber and Lyft, on the other hand, I know ahead of time what I'll be paying.

[rz2k]

Drivers are eventually going to follow pretty closely what the metering algorithm wants them to, with a moderate adjustment for passenger satisfaction for the sake of tips. Consider different per fare starting fees, and different per mile and per minutes additional fees. If the fixed revenue part is relatively high you'll end up with very fast, but probably unsafe, cab rides. High per mile rates and you'll possibly end up on unecessary freeway legs. High per minute rates and you might get dropped where there are a lot of new fares rather than where you want to go.

[dawnerd]

Thats assuming the driver follows the route uber/lyft tells them to take. It is still really nice to have an idea of the route and the bill.

One reason I like Uber/Lyft more is I can take it a few blocks. A taxi driver would be upset if you only needed them for a short ride.

[tyingq]

>>Shhh, don't tell Uber/Lyft, but I would gladly pay more than taxi rates to use their service.

Pretty sure they are aware, and just waiting until they have enough market share to make good on that.

[mahyarm]

Taxis are a shady business pretty much world wide it feels like.

[pkorzeniewski]

It depends, for several years now I order taxis in my city from the same company and never had any problems - price is similar to Uber, ordering takes literally several seconds over the phone (call, tell the street, hang up) and drivers always take the shortest route (they usually know the city in and out, hardly ever using GPS). The only downside is that the cars are quite old, but always clean and a fun fact - a 20 years old Mercedes is more comfortable than a brand new Toyota :)

[supercoder]

In my city (Melbourne Aus)

- There's a surcharge for phone bookings

- Taxis generally refuse small fares

- Taxis still just use their gps

- Taxis are more expensive

- Taxis drive more aggressively

- The cars aren't as clean

And they're wondering why their business is getting eaten alive...

[serge2k]

Here in Seattle they bitch when you want to use a credit card, then pull out the really old mechanical slide things to take payment.

Coming from Canada where the card just works I was shocked.

[auxym]

Not in Montreal. The law obligating taxis to accept CC just passed a few months ago and many drivers still try to pull the broken machine stunt.

[developer2]

I've had two different taxi drivers in Montreal offer up their cell phone with their personal Square card reader and account instead of the official machine. The first one pulled out the real machine when I called him out on it. I paid and filed a complaint against him. The second refused and acted like nothing was wrong, even though I clearly knew what was up. I refused payment, filed a complaint, and have continued to receive service from the same company without issue.

The taxi industry is corrupt as hell. Credit card fraud, drivers who take clueless tourists on an hour trip when it is a 15 minute drive, theft of forgotten items in cars, unlicensed drivers driving others' cars when the legal driver is off-hours, etc. Some of these people belong in jail, but the worst they ever face is a slap on the wrist or possibly losing their job. Any competition to them - legal or not, I don't give a shit anymore - is welcome. Their monopoly is abused by the owners as well as many individual drivers. Their business deserves to fall apart.

[Scoundreller]

Or when it's "working", it's a scam to copy your PIN and give you the last victim's card back: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/taxi-debit-scam-1.3478...

It's partly a consequence of there being so few banks in Canada, so you only need 5 or 6 fraudulent cards to hand back to the user.

[stormbrew]

Until very recently they tended to do the same thing in Edmonton and Calgary, and they only started uniformly taking debit in the last couple of years at all, so that's definitely not a universally Canadian thing.

You should see their faces when you pay through the app they set up recently. Most of them don't know wtf is going on.

[pyre]

> You should see their faces when you pay through the app they set up recently

Well, then they can't pull the "credit card machine in the car isn't working, so let me drive you to an ATM so you can take out money to pay me. Sorry that I waited until after driving you to your destination to tell you this, despite the fact that my car advertises credit card payments on the outside. Oops! I also left the meter on while we drove to the ATM! Silly me! You still have to pay me for the extra on the meter, though." (Of course, if you threaten not to pay, the credit card machine magically comes to life.)

[voltagex_]

I wonder if any drivers will try and claim you haven't paid them when using the app (because witchcraft)

[dylz]

What are mechanical slide things? Like you swipe instead of use chip?

[StevePerkins]

I can't tell if you're being cheeky or are just really young. Up until the past decade or two, it was very common to process credit cards by placing the card onto a tray with a slip of paper over it, and swipe a pressure bar over the tray. This physically caused the digits on the card to make an impression on the paper:

http://cdn.toptenreviews.com/rev/misc/articles/4734/type-or-...

Many credit cards today simply have the digits printed on them in ink, rather than raised lettering, so I don't know how this would even work half the time today.

[nfriedly]

I'm not certain that this is what the OP was referring to, but this is what I thought of:

http://www.possupply.com/media/catalog/category/4850-CC-Impr...

It's a machine that you use with copy paper and slide it over the card. The name and numbers are raised up on most credit cards and leave an imprint on the paper. The cardholder then signs the paper.

I've used them when I worked at a department store for customers who's magnetic strip had worn out to the point that our computers couldn't read the card. I imagine the main reasons for a taxi driver to use one is that 1) it's cheap and reliable, and 2) it works offline.

[SturgeonsLaw]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bClUYQTPL._SL1000_.j...

They take an imprint of the embossed credit card details for later processing

[eisa01]

Try taking a cab in Düsseldorf, there they don't have the slider and type down the CC number with a pen. Payment takes a couple minutes..

They also complain about you paying with CC, even after they had introduced a credit card surcharge last time I was there

[roel_v]

I waited almost an hour for a cab in Sydney a few months ago, calling 3 times in between being told every time 'it's on its way', with a 3 and a 5 year old waiting outside on the sidewalk - not fun. Had to take the bus to get to my destination at all. Have gotten extremely suspicious of aus cabs since, despite my usual airport service being excellent.

[fphhotchips]

Sydney has easily the worst cab service in the country. Half the time the cab doesn't even have A/C.

Also, I find that the airport service is made wonderfully redundant by the mostly excellent Airtrain.

[endgame]

I visited Adelaide once and had to get the map book out of the passenger-side pocket. For a destination in the CBD.

[voltagex_]

Same in Canberra - the problem most of the time is driver turnover. Say what you will about London cabs, but The Knowledge is an amazing thing.

[vostok]

> 20 years old Mercedes is more comfortable than a brand new Toyota

Is that true? It's been a long time since I've been in a 1996 S-class [0], but the Toyota Avalon Hybrid is rather comfortable.

[0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Mercedes...

[hueving]

Most Uber x drivers aren't in an Avalon. I usually get a Camry or a Prius here in the bay.

[vostok]

I'd wager that a Camry is still more comfortable than a 20 year old Merc. The Prius is debatable.

[voltagex_]

The new Camry and Prius (V) are fantastic - that's what the taxis in Canberra, Australia are being replaced with, since the Ford Falcon AU hasn't been made since 2005 and the cars are starting to fall apart.

[z6]

I'd say yes. Had a 92 E class and it was one comfortable car.

[pandler]

Uber was a godsend when I was in Kenya where metered taxis were out of the question and where taxi drivers were especially exhausting to haggle with. Even when I could possibly negotiate a cheaper price with a normal cab, I would usually call an Uber anyways just for the peace of mind.

That is, unless I sought the sheer thrill of tearing through the streets of Nairobi on the back of a motorcycle taxi.

[denzil_correa]

They are so due to the business of issuing medallions.

http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/47636506327/the-tyranny-of...

[nihonde]

In Japan taxis are very pleasant, but expensive, and can be complicated.

I say pleasant because the drivers are usually super-polite, dressed in a neat uniform, quick to get out of the car to help you, keep their cars immaculate, etc.

I say complicated because Japan has an infernal resistance to using street names and marking addresses. If you can get your destination to appear on the "navi", you're OK. If not, you'll be doing a lot of "more towards the castle" and similar guesswork.

[cJ0th]

Could you tell the driver a GPS address?

[ptaipale]

If you know it, probably. But if you don't, and if the navigation system doesn't know, it's going to be hard. The street numbering is different from the West.

In Japan and South Korea, a city is divided into small numbered zones. The houses within each zone are then labelled in the order in which they were constructed, or clockwise around the block.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_numbering

[germanier]

Korea introduced street names and house numbers a few years ago and the new system is now the only official, though of course the former system is still popular. For taxis usually you still name nearby landmarks but they can also input a (western-style) address into their GPS.

[nihonde]

Usually, they can tap in the phone number of your destination and it will come up. That's a popular way to use in-car GPS here, and reasonably reliable.

[jacalata]

Japan's amazing urban geography doesn't seem like something Uber can fix, surely.

[yummyfajitas]

Just think how bad it might be if cities were to create regulations to keep out anyone besides Uber.

Then Uber might create a medallion system - artificially limiting the number of cars on the road - to maximize their profits [1]. Uber would also have no real incentive to monitor their driver's behavior - after all, it's not like they'll lose any business to Ola, Lyft or Meru. They might even engage in racist protectionism, like banning cab drivers from the wrong ethnic group [2]!

I sure hope no one ever gets this kind of monopoly on taxi cabs!

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_New_York_City#Meda...

[2] http://www.firstpost.com/india/dont-know-marathi-cant-drive-... (For those unfamiliar, Shiv Sena is basically the Donald Trump party of Maharashtra.)

[DrScump]

Uber has no need to worry about maximizing profits via limiting drivers, or need for a medallion system, in the long term given that their long-term goal is no drivers at all:

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/17/ubers-self-driving-car-future...

(one example; there are more recent articles)

[Scoundreller]

Uber's headstart already makes it difficult for any upstart to compete with UberPool. In Toronto, Uber appears to be taking aggressive action against drivers that refuse Pool:

http://uberpeople.net/threads/reject-2-pool-in-a-row-get-kic...

[HappyTypist]

There's no reason Uber would create a medallion system. They'd just raise the commissions that drivers pay.

[pfarnsworth]

The company's stated goals are to compete against mass transit, so I doubt they would raise prices. And they would be making the exact same mistake that their predecessors did, which led them to get disrupted. I'm pretty sure Uber isn't that stupid to not realize if they started acting like taxi companies, they would pretty easily get disrupted the way they have been as well.

If they did all it would do is decrease demand, and would allow other competitors to make their ways into the ridesharing market. I think the CEO is smart enough to know that making a product that is great for customers with margins so low that it makes it really hard for new competitors to come up is a great business to be in.

[AdamJacobMuller]

Perhaps, especially if you mean that surge pricing will be above regular taxi pricing.

That said, I'm fine with that. I live in a suburban area and getting a (traditional) taxi is complicated and getting a car service is both complicated and expensive. Uber is simple and convenient and I'm fine with paying (some) premium for that.

[Scoundreller]

Uber says they don't surge the price because your battery is low. All that's happening here is users are less willing to wait out a surge when they're in danger of being without an Uber (and an inability to call a cab).

[KKKKkkkk1]

Why would there be no competition to Uber? Are they lobbying for traditional taxi companies to be banned from the market?

[thesimon]

But why should traditional taxis still drive for lower rates when they could earn more through Uber?

[agumonkey]

In Paris it will very rapidly outbid traditional Taxi companies. Uber hooks into the psychological side of in the now calculation, you only think about the base price not the end-to-end fee, by the time you're paying it's too late.

[nickparker]

The common complaint against Uber is that drivers barely make any money when you factor in minimum wage.

Their solution won't be increased prices, it'll be the end of drivers. I'd love to see someone actually run the cashflows, but the current prices seem to me about adequate for healthy profit on driverless vehicles. All this nonsense about paying drivers is just incredibly expensive market building.

[developer2]

>> The common complaint against Uber is that drivers barely make any money when you factor in minimum wage.

The question is whether drivers are making less than minimum wage. This is admittedly more difficult to calculate in an unbiased manner due to a lack of consensus as to whether gas, insurance, vehicle maintenance, etc. should be counted towards a driver's costs of operation.

My intuition says that it shouldn't matter. If a driver is willing to work for a very small margin of profit or even at a financial loss, it's their fault for taking a job that doesn't provide. If Uber doesn't pay, then don't work for Uber, it's as simple as that! Let the market decide; if people were to refuse working for pennies, then Uber would be forced to offer decent income or go out of business due to lack of drivers. And yet after having this initial opinion, the thought occurs... what if this was the norm for employment? Clearly we cannot operate as a society if every job paid like that. At some point, does regulation need to kick in to prevent such abuses from being the norm?

I don't know. It just makes no sense to me that anyone would be an Uber driver if it doesn't pay whatsoever. I can't decide who's more at fault - Uber, or the people offering themselves up as bait to a broken system.

[MarkMc]

Why is there a "lack of consensus as to whether gas, insurance, vehicle maintenance, etc. should be counted towards a driver's costs of operation"? The driver pays for these things, so they should count towards the driver's cost of operation. Seems clear to me.

Also, it seems you are happy for Uber to effectively pay below minimum wage. Does that mean you want to see minimum wage abolished?

[developer2]

I know, my position isn't quite decided. I just think there's a certain onus on the people who choose to be drivers, who accept the way things are. Why the hell are they agreeing to work for Uber if they're not making any money? Go find a job that pays then. By taking up a job with Uber and dealing with their bull, they're directly supporting and sustaining that system.

I can understand why it would be terrible if every business tried to pull this shit. Nobody gets paid to work? How would society function? But if you work for an outlying company like Uber where there is no money, that is your problem. Go find a paying job. It's not like Uber has a monopoly on the job market and everyone is required to work for them, for nothing. It's a choice. So don't choose to work for nothing? All I'm hearing is "I signed up to be a driver for Uber. I know they pay nothing, but I intentionally choose to work here, knowing it pays nothing!".

If this were a real problem, Uber would not have any drivers, and they would be out of business. If it were an even more serious problem, we'd have tons of companies paying nothing, and our first world economies would collapse overnight.

[Hondor]

You could say the same about gambling, loan sharks, and minimum wage laws in general. We have these laws to protect people from themselves. We aren't all rational decision makers, especially not those of us who are desperate.

[maxerickson]

What would be the downsides of forcing companies that are engaging people in tasks that require operating a vehicle to offer reimbursement for that operation?

A big upside is that it simplifies evaluating the position for the person doing the work.

A downside is that the company would have to monitor for fraud (but this is pretty easy for Uber which is premised on tracking the distance the vehicle travels).

(contractors and employees, either arrangement)

[snowfield]

One company offering below minimum wage and you can go to another place

Everyone offering below minimum wage because that's ok now and you are fucked.

I don't think Uber should be allowed to offer below minimum wage, personally.

[savanaly]

Why wouldn't a competitor undercut them if they did that?

[newjersey]

In my (possibly incorrect) understanding, the promise of uber to shareholders is the network effect. However, you're right. This elasticity only goes so far. If Uber is smart, they should work hard to keep prices (and profits) low as long as they can afford to do so.

[jfoster]

If Uber becomes what you imagine it will get replaced.

[aaron695]

Do you have any evidence of this other than normal HN parnoia?

Why would they. Their cut would not be a hell of a lot more with a price hike. Why kill off sales? Why open up to competitors?

They are in a numbers game. Not a high ticket game.

Can you give an example of another company that has done this?

McDonald's hasn't gone to $20 burgers.. why would Uber price hike?

[jacalata]

McDonald's hasn't, quoting the OP you responded to, 'cut off all competition'. Are you imagining that with no competition, McDonald's would still not raise prices?

[aaron695]

People could still cook at home or go to restaurants, so I think McDonalds with no competition wouldn't. Why would they risk losing their monopoly if they had one in fast food.

Uber doesn't care what it drivers earn, why would it hurt sales by giving them more money?

Uber has broken a monopoly, yet people are prattling on that they might create one?

Has a company ever done this, one real world example?

Why get a monopoly by out pricing the competition then raise prices to allow someone to do it back to you?

[icebraining]

The idea that Uber can cut off all competition is suspect. They had to spend a lot of money because they were fighting the taxi monopoly and introducing a new type of product. But nowadays, all you need to compete is an app. The threat of competition is always there, as there's very little lock-in for both users and drivers.

[rpgmaker]

In my area 2.1x surge (plus base fare) is still cheaper than a normal -and notoriously shitty- taxi.