[MichaelCrawford]

No.

I get lots of interviews with managers who use technologies I'm quite happy with.

When I say I am discriminated against because of my age, it's because I can tell they don't want to hire me, the very instant they look at me.

Do you know the term "code word", with reference to discrimination? With me, I am often told I would not "fit the company culture".

My ex-wife was one a motel manager. She was specifically told not to rent rooms to First Nations people (ie. Native Canadians).

A friend once interviewed to be an apartment manager. She was specifically told not to rent to black people.

However, the owners of that hotel and that apartment, did not specifically come right out and say so. They used "code words", for example the apartment owner told my friend to inform people that spoke in a certain way, that there were no apartments available.

[steven2012]

Just from your responses in this thread, I think it's more your personality rather than your age. It probably a lot more of a factor than you believe.

[MichaelCrawford]

In meatspace, I am in reality quite mild-mannered, reserved and polite. As I said, the consummate professional.

Quite likely you and the others who raise objections, have never been subjected to age, racial, religious or sexual discrimination. Those who have know what I'm talking about.

When was the last time you met a Mexican-American computer programmer? One who actually had a job?

The education in Mexico, I understand, is very very good.

Even born and raised American citizens don't find much work in technology, if they are of Hispanic heritage.

That's not just me saying it - I am an Anglo. I've observed that to be the case everywhere I have ever worked, I've also read about it in the trade press.

[steven2012]

lol I'm in my 40s, work at a YC startup, and we have 3 Hispanic engineers out of 15. So, in short, you're wrong.

I'm pretty sure that you believe you are mild-mannered, but you probably aren't. Your opinions and the things you say betray the fact that you are likely hard to work with. You said that you would not respect people based on their choice of technology. That itself is a red flag about your personality. So I'm telling you, it's probably not your age, it's your personality. You sound like someone who is very hard to work with if they dare to say something you disagree with.

[MichaelCrawford]

You claim to disprove a general phenomenon with anecdotal evidence.

I'm a Physicist, I know all about this stuff. That Hispanics are not commonly employed as software engineers is very well-established. Go have a look at companies other than your own.

I do applaud you for employing them. I think highly of Hispanic people.

And yes I really am quite easy to work with. That's why I post like this on the Internet, because it enables me to be quite blunt when I want to be.

In the workplace I work hard to play nice in the sandbox.

Do you know what the term "passing" means? Consider that I am quite profoundly mentally ill. Having Bipolar-Type Schizoaffective Disorder is much like being Manic-Depressive and Schizophrenic at the same time.

I would not be able to get a job at all, were I not able to pass as someone who was not mentally ill. It is quite uncommon for those I encounter in person, to ever figure out that I am mentally ill in any way, unless I specifically tell them.

That really gets me down, so I don't make any attempt whatsoever to hide my mental illness on the Internet.

[steven2012]

I'm sorry for your mental illness. However, I feel like you would be insulted if I avoided replying to you because of it, so I won't.

I think you must be doing really well for someone who is passing as someone without mental illness, so that it probably why you believe people don't notice it. However, my bet is that it leaks through, and there is something off about your behavior that you can't pick up on. Just because you're mild-mannered doesn't mean that there isn't something that rubs people the wrong way about your behavior. I've worked with a lot of people who were mild-mannered who behaved strangely and caused people to not like working with them.

My bet is that this is likely the reason why you aren't getting job offers, as opposed to age. Because you are doing so well as someone passing as someone who doesn't have mental illness, you are probably hardcoded to believe that that's not the reason, but I would revisit that belief.

[MichaelCrawford]

I am in general able to get really good jobs.

Yes you are correct that I do rub some people the wrong way. It's rather more subtle than you would think. For example I ordered a really tasty meal in an all-night restaurant once:

"Hey that supper I ordered is really good!"

"Are you going to be able to pay for it?"

"Well of course."

"I want you to pay for it RIGHT NOW!"

"Well OK..." I pulled what was clearly $25.00 in cash out of my wallet.

"Do you have enough money?"

"Wut? This is twenty-five bucks!"

However the waitress who actually served the meal was happy to chat with me the whole time I was there. It was the owner of the restaurant who seemed to think I could not pay, despite my having three times as much cash as what the meal cost.

There are only certain people who act that way towards me. It's uncommon but when they act like that, they are quite irrational.

I am dead certain that most people I meet in real life do not know I am mentally ill. There have been quite a few people who I have known for years, who were quite surprised when I finally told them about it.

Also, I am not the only coder who faces age discrimination. I was first warned about it when I was thirty years old or so. The age discrimination is widespread, it's easy to find others who have similar experiences.

Consider - have you ever seen an old person who works at an Apple Store?

Someone in a wheelchair?

[trcollinson]

I realize from your comments below that you would like to fight this idea that there are no Mexican-American computer programmers. But the census says otherwise, and they are known to be relatively accurate. These numbers may seem quite low, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that approximately 6.4% of computer and mathematical occupations are made up of Hispanic or Latino populations. If we extrapolate that out to the data on how many software engineers are in the US from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, ~600,000, we will find that there are ~36,000 hispanic and latino software engineers. There are also quite a few female engineers of various races, and of course, other races besides hispanic and latino.

Oh, and anecdotally, I know quite a large number of hispanic and latino software engineers. They actually have jobs.

[1] http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.pdf [2] http://www.bls.gov/oes/2002/oes_nat.htm

[devopsproject]

"not fit the company culture" has many meanings. Again, if you started any type of flame war in my interview, you would be gone instantly

[MichaelCrawford]

If I start a flame war in your interview, it's because I don't want to work for you.

But before we part ways, I aim to set you straight, so that you stop making such mistakes as, for example, using CoreEdit.

I regard that as a public service to the community.

Apple's vendor lock-in is a particular sore point with me, as I have experienced it with many vendors, but Apple worst of all.

Quite commonly I interview to work on a client's very first Mac or iOS product, after they have experience with some other platform. For example I do a lot of Mac ports of successful Windows products. Also quite commonly, the client wants to make use of some really, really ill-advised Apple technology, perhaps as a result of Apple's Developer Evangelism, or having attended an Apple World-Wide Developer Conference, without the understanding that those conferences are specifically intended to enable vendor lock-in.

So I regard it as my duty to the client to advise them not to use Apple-only technologies when a suitable portable technology already exists.

[MichaelCrawford]

I don't start flame wars in meetings. That's because I don't accept offers from companies that I don't respect.

What I'm saying is that hiring managers often tell me I won't fit the company culture, as a direct result of seeing me in person, rather than communicating via email or telephone.

[devopsproject]

> I don't start flame wars in meetings

> I often get into flame wars during my interview

Make up your mind and then get back to me

[MichaelCrawford]

I already did.

What I just said is that I don't accept offers from managers that I regard as idiots.

When I am actually working for a firm, I am always the consummate professional.

[devopsproject]

I'm suggesting it is your attitude and not your age but you seem to be dead set on being right.

[MichaelCrawford]

How can it be my attitude, when the age discrimination is made plainly apparent before I even speak?