[jordank]

Having rented a Tesla via Hertz last year, here are some quick remembrances:

-The car was not charged fully when I rented it.

-I had to park in a pay parking lot at a shopping mall to charge the car. Charging to 100% cost me $7 but took 30 minutes of my time.

-The UX of most of the basic car functions was much harder to learn than a typical rental car. I'm sure that Tesla's UX quirks start to feel normal after a while, but I had trouble locating basic car functions and had to text with Tesla-owning friends for advice.

None of these things made me want to rent a Tesla again.

[jefftk]

> The UX of most of the basic car functions was much harder to learn than a typical rental car. I'm sure that Tesla's UX quirks start to feel normal after a while, but I had trouble locating basic car functions and had to text with Tesla-owning friends for advice.

This was also my experience: "you'd only know if someone told you or you looked it up, and late at night after a cross country flight with two tired kids while poking at unfamiliar menu options on the dashboard tablet I was pretty frustrated with their minimally discoverable approach" https://www.jefftk.com/p/tesla-model-3-review

[shepherdjerred]

For me, test driving a Tesla was a very scary experience because of this. They're not intuitive at all, though I'm sure those who own Tesla's are mostly familiar with the quirks.

[2sk21]

That was an excellent write up! I am really surprised that the built-in navigation system does not enable you to search for charging + activity. That seems like it ought to be essential!

[jefftk]

Thanks!

It's possible that searching for charging+activity is possible and I just didn't find it? But I spent a while looking!

[HumblyTossed]

> The major downside of the cruise control was phantom braking. In about 450mi of driving up and down CA 101 I has three false positives, where we suddenly decelerated:

> I was in the rightmost of two lanes and an SUV was parked in the breakdown lane with its hazards on.

Why was this a false positive?? This is what you are supposed to do if you don't get over to the left.

[dev_tty01]

They said it 'suddenly decelerated.' That is NOT what you are supposed to do when a car is in the breakdown lane.

[khalilravanna]

Similar experience.

- Rented Model Y. Show up and no Model Y. “We got a 3”. I’m driving to Vermont with snow but no choice now. “Ok sounds great.”

- Have to stop every couple hours to charge.

- Multiple times the GPS plotted us a route which would have battery hit 0% before arriving to charger. Nerve wracking.

- Most of the full speed charging stations had lines and if we did the slow speed ones our entire weekend trip would be spent charging.

- Regenerative braking is cool till you’re going down hill in snow with all season tires. Then it’s a great way to lock up and slide. Thankfully I’m not a noob. (Also not that I expected winter tires from a rental, even in Boston, but cmon Hertz.)

My biggest takeaway is that if where we stayed had a charger for overnight charging it would have been fine. Without that it was undeniably worse than renting a gas car. We basically had to plan our days around the rental which is a bit insane. I don’t doubt that having one to whip around local with a charger at home would rule but for anything more than short drives I don’t think a rental electric makes sense.

[aftbit]

>Rented Model Y. Show up and no Model Y.

I don't understand how this isn't considered fraud. If you try to cancel your trip, they want to charge a crazy fee, but if they don't have the car that you reserved, sorry maybe we can offer you another one. Rental car companies need a good lashing from a government regulator.

[ilikepi]

Generally you don't rent a specific model, you rent a "So-and-so or similar". And undoubtedly the rental agreement specifically gives them permission to make substitutions. It's unlikely this scenario has not been fully mitigated by corporate legal and risk management.

[threeseed]

As Jerry Seinfeld once said:

They know how to take the reservation. They just don't know how to hold the reservation.

[FourHand451]

It's been a while since I've rented, but I assume this is covered in the agreement when you make a booking. I'd guess their butts are covered from the fraud perspective. Maybe misleading advertisement though?

[alkonaut]

> with snow

Isn’t the 3 and Y mostly equivalent, one just slightly larger? There is big difference in clearance, 2/4wd or anything else that would make them different in a cold climate drive? Or am I missing something?

[tootie]

The story has been that Tesla is losing market share even as EV sales rise. Early adopters were happy to buy in to a truly unique experience with a funky-looking vehicle and a complete rethinking of interiors and controls. Meanwhile, Kia, Hyundai, VW are producing EVs that just kinda look and drive like normal cars and the bulk of market prefer that. And that's indirectly causing backlash on Hertz because the drop in prices is what killed the financially viability of their deal. This is less about EVs being a bust and more that they put all their eggs in one basket and forgot to keep them warm.

[Kon-Peki]

> Meanwhile, Kia, Hyundai, VW are producing EVs that just kinda look and drive like normal cars and the bulk of market prefer that.

Kia.com -> View Inventory -> within 50 miles:

EV9 = (263) 246 Available, 17 Arriving Soon

EV6 = (153) 151 Available, 2 Arriving Soon

Niro EV = (39) 38 Available, 1 Arriving Soon

They all have $XXXX discounts on them. I'm not sure the market is falling all over itself to buy them.

[bobthepanda]

I think Kia and Hyundai are dealing with reputation damage after their cars were so easy to steal for a couple years.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/04/business/hyundai-kia-thefts-i...

[nblgbg]

Its not completely true. Check their popular gas models like telluride etc, you still have to pay above MSRP or some crap accessories to get the cars. They are selling gas cars extremely well.

[p_j_w]

GP was talking about market share and you're talking about inventory. You may be right that GP is wrong, but the data you're sharing doesn't say one way or the other.

[Spooky23]

How’s the Tesla shipments going?

The industry saturated the market, which will lower the prices. People will buy them cheap. Market at work.

[tootie]

We're not at saturation exactly, sales are growing but growth has slowed and competition is much stronger. It's entirely possible Tesla has peaked and won't recover but that's speculation. I'm still confident EVs will be all or nearly all cars on the road in the near future but it's going to be more like 20-25 years than 10.

[Spooky23]

Personally, i think they’ll be 30-40% of cars.

I think we’re entering a trough where the artificial incentives start to lose their effect and we really figure out what the market needs and navigate the FUD as we “digest” some of the lousy early cars.

We’re still early in the market and tech breakthroughs make it unpredictable — Tesla’s survival is probably tied to delivering those.

[tootie]

The deciding factor is going to end being politics. Democrats will continue pushing mandates and Republicans will try to block or undo them.

[code_runner]

I had an almost opposite experience and ended up buying a tesla a handful of months later when it was time for a car.

the UX was a bit of a pain at first and I didn't understand the regen braking, but I felt that I at least had menus instead of buttons with symbols in weird places. I have a theory that I'm not as good at remembering where my buttons are as other people because i've never thought twice about the buttons being on a screen instead.... I always have to glance at what i'm setting

All that said: I would never want to drive or own one of the teslas without the turn signal stalks on the steering wheel and all that.... just seems like asking for trouble

[s1mon]

At one point I really thought that our next car would be a Tesla. So when Hertz had a Model 3 available after our Hyundai from Enterprise was stolen (yep Kiaboyz hack time), we tried it out.

We had similar UX issues. It's crazy. I'm all for a very clean interface, but the affordances for very basic functionality are limited. It started with just getting into the damn car. I felt like an idiot just trying to unlock the door. After we struggled for a few minutes we finally had to ask a Hertz attendant. Similarly, there were a lot of cabin controls which are buried in the touchscreen UI. Because I like to play with new toys, I was willing to take the time while parked to watch some videos and figure things out, but a Model 3 is not an easy car to just get in and drive without some prior knowledge. What's also kinda crazy is all the ways that things can be customized (e.g. one pedal driving). I wonder if Hertz resets any of this to the lowest common denominator after a rental?

Charging was a bit of a pain without access to charging at our hotel. There was a supercharger site not too far away, but sitting for 20-30 minutes in a mall parking lot is not my idea of fun. We definitely want our next car to be an EV, but only because we would install a charger in our garage. I'm still not sure I would make the EV choice without that.

I rented a Model 3 again another time, but through Turo, and had hardly any issues, but that's because of this prior experience.

These days, Elon Musk has turned into (or exposed himself to be?) such a nut job that I can't see buying a Tesla. It's very frustrating, because overall I still like the Model 3 better than most other EVs.

[vel0city]

I'm a bit confused about your difficulty with unlocking and driving off. The car should have unlocked itself upon approach, and all you would have needed to do to drive would be to swipe the always on part of the screen to drive. Was it not this way with the rental?

I don't own a Tesla and I'm not a fan of their extremely minimalist interior, but those two things should have at least been the easiest to do.

[kccqzy]

How does the car know it should unlock when approached by the right person but not a stranger? It has a Bluetooth connection to the phone. For a rental, the person renting probably doesn't have the Tesla app, and it's not obvious how to use the key card.

None of this is easy for a rental. They are only easy for a person who bought the car and owns it.

[vel0city]

On my car the fobs auto unlock the car when approached, you don't need the phone app. There is nothing similar for Teslas? Just the backup card with it's oddities and your phone? Didn't they have that little toy car remote?

[kccqzy]

They do have that remote but since it doesn't come with the car, you can bet rental companies didn't pay extra to provide customers with that fob.

[s1mon]

They give you a key card. Without some prior knowledge, try to figure out where to use the key card.

Putting it near the B-pillar is not the first or second things I tried. In retrospect given the RF nature of how NFC works, it makes sense that behind something non-metallic makes sense. I think I may have tried things near the edge of the windshield (didn't Zipcar work like that?).

[_ea1k]

I think they only give you the card, so walkup unlock won't happen, at least before setting up a phone key.

[robbyiq999]

> The UX of most of the basic car functions was much harder to learn than a typical rental car ...

Strange there is no voice control, I mean the car is smart enough it can drive itself .... right?

[RandallBrown]

There is voice control.

https://www.tesla.com/support/voice-commands

[vel0city]

I don't want to use voice control to turn the wipers on or use my turn signals, and their radically different placement takes time getting used to.

[inciampati]

I tried and failed to rent a Tesla from Hertz. Paid for the EV manager special, and got a crappy compact car instead.

[cowpig]

> Charging to 100% cost me $7 but took 30 minutes of my time

Did you really charge to 100%? I guess people unfamiliar with Teslas aren't used to the idea of charging to 80-85% as a default

[tiahura]

If you’re renting F battery life.

[csa]

> If you’re renting F battery life.

It’s a time issue.

The battery charges much faster when low on charge and slower when close to full charge.

I imagine the op was at 80% or more within 10 minutes or less.

My comment to people about teslas is that they will be disappointed if they try to drive it like an ICE car. It’s a different driving experience (e.g., you almost never want or need a “full tank”), and the good parts of EVs won’t be as noticeable if one doesn’t integrate those differences.

[itsoktocry]

>It’s a different driving experience (e.g., you almost never want or need a “full tank”)

What does this even mean? I both want and need as much range as possible when I'm driving my rental car. I don't care about long-term battery degredation.

[csa]

> I both want and need as much range as possible when I'm driving my rental car.

Do you really? If so, that’s either due to where you live or work (few charging stations) or you’re a relatively rare “cannonball run” type of driver.

On my model y, I can charge up to 60% or so, and I can drive for 2 hours to the next charging station (for long trips). After that, I want to stretch, take a short bio break, and get some food or something to drink. I will be back up to 60% or more by the time I’m done, and I am usually fast with my “pit stops”.

If you mostly drive short range local stuff, then it is very easy to charge when you do almost anything else — go out to eat, get coffee, shop for whatever. If you’re renting for business, then your hotel almost certainly has a charger that will charge you enough to get you around all day.

You pretty much have to construct a very unique set of circumstances to make it such that “always charging to full” is an important necessity.

> I don't care about long-term battery degredation.

As I said before, this is a time issue, not a battery degredation issue. Charging to full during the day (while you are waiting) is almost never necessary. Full charge overnight is fine — it costs you no time.

If your situation is so different, please tell me what your typical day is with regards to driving and refueling, and I will tell you what it could look like with a model y. It really won’t be a big difference in terms of time.

[lelanthran]

> My comment to people about teslas is that they will be disappointed if they try to drive it like an ICE car.

Why would renters drive it any differently to any other rental car?

> It’s a different driving experience

The only experience car renters want is reliable transport now. The car is not the primary objective, their destination is. Anything that degrades the journey to the destination is a turn off.

[csa]

> Anything that degrades the journey to the destination is a turn off.

I didn’t say it is a degraded experience. It’s just different.

If someone feels like that’s a degraded experience, that’s an issue with them and their expectations rather than the car.

As a simple example, some folks hate the Tesla controls, especially the touch screen. That’s fine. I love those same controls. Most common actions can be handled by the stems, most of the others by voice, and a few others require touch screen. If these things get a person bent out of shape, then a Tesla isn’t for them, and that’s ok. It works perfectly for me and my tastes. It’s a matter of expectations.

[lelanthran]

One last thing:

> If someone feels like that’s a degraded experience, that’s an issue with them and their expectations rather than the car.

The renter's expectation is that they just get in and drive to their destination. I don't think that that is an unreasonable expectation to have when renting a car.

OTOH, it is unreasonable to tell paying customers "you have to put in more effort and pay more if you want to be a customer"; the customers are just going to go elsewhere, where the business is being snobbish and using the "You're holding it wrong" response.

[lelanthran]

> I didn’t say it is a degraded experience. It’s just different.

Not for you, maybe, but adding extra steps to a task is a degradation for many people.

For most people, the extra 30m involved in renting a Tesla from Hertz vs a regular ICE car is an objective degradation in experience!

Hertz could have reduced the degradation by ensuring that all the Teslas left their lot fully charged. They could have allowed returns to be 50% charged.

They could have done lots of things to make the experience similar to an ICE car. They didn't.

[ncallaway]

> My comment to people about teslas is that they will be disappointed if they try to drive it like an ICE car

That kinda...tells the story of the article doesn't it? It's a pretty terrible rental experience if people will be disappointed if they try to drive it like the cars they're used to.

[gausswho]

For charging speed you are right, the last 10% is at reduced rate. But, if I understand correctly, battery health is not depreciated with a 100% charge limit on Teslas with the newer battery composition that started sale in late 2022.

[Klathmon]

That's not universally true, both battery chemistries are in use and still being sold new (I believe the smaller batteries are using the new "100% safe" chemistry, while the long range variants are using the "keep the charge around 70-80%" chemistry.)

The car will alert you if it's not safe to charge frequently to 100% when you set the charge limit.