[snapcaster]

It always feels like these articles never mention the "real" reasons people work out and stay motivated. It makes you super attractive! It's great to be treated so nicely by everyone (compared to how i was treated when 50 pounds heavier). It's validating to have members of your desired sex lust for you. I wish I was wise enough to be motivated by the idea that i'll be more mobile in 40 years but if i'm being honest I think the actual motivation is the validation from others

[hammock]

Being attractive isn’t just about members of the opposite sex wanting to bone you.

It’s about having a head start in the pecking order game for any room you walk into, work or social or otherwise. It’s about people moving out of your way on the sidewalk instead of the other way around. It’s about people showing respect and going the extra mile at the airline counter or the retail store.

There are a lot of subtle benefits that people probably don’t want to readily acknowledge

[giantg2]

"It’s about people moving out of your way on the sidewalk instead of the other way around."

More likely to signify who is or isn't the asshole.

[hammock]

You can still move aside if you want to. The difference is the choice is yours.

If you were always moving out of the way when you were smaller, because you had to, is it so noble? If it isn’t truly a choice to?

Becoming attractive unlocks doors in the world that were previously locked. It’s always up to the individual what they do with them

[giantg2]

"If you were always moving out of the way when you were smaller, because you had to, is it so noble?"

There are other ways to be precieved as dangerous. Appearing to be dangerous is the real choice. Having the image of being bigger/stronger can actually have negative effects as well when considering things like what level of force is considered justified against you, other people seeking to prove dominace just due to your threatening appearance, etc.

"Becoming attractive unlocks doors in the world that were previously locked."

Not really. Sure it would help in certain things like mate selection, being an OF model, etc. Maybe you get slightly more courteous treatment. But it's not really opening doors that couldn't be opened in other ways. Not to mention that being attractive does not require big muscles. There are other ways to achieve that.

[hammock]

Agreed on the first point and good context. Tempted to lump it in with “great responsibility.” Doesn’t just apply to physical size, if you are a CCW it’s important to take extra care to avoid situations you don’t want to be in like someone else (cop or otherwise) thinking you’re a threat when you’re not

On the second point, may I ask do you have big muscles?

[giantg2]

I have some muscles, but not that big. Overall I'm physically attractive.

Muscles and attractiveness might have made my situation slight better in some ways (like dating), but it hasn't made up for social inadequacy. There are many people who are less attractive who have gone further in their careers etc with better social skills and such. So there are multiple angles to get ahead. Being physically attractive doesn't hurt, but I think being attractive in other ways is more important.

[bigtunacan]

Such a naive take. I suspect you haven't spent much time in bad neighborhoods where there's a high chance that the "weak" looking person approaching on the sidewalk is strapped. You don't show some mutual respect and you're likely to get shot.

[hammock]

I live in Chicago man. Im always on the border of a bad neighborhood, I play pickup in the park anywhere, and I regularly volunteer on the statistically worst block of the entire city. I have spent time as an inmate in Cook County Jail(1). Come visit some time I’ll show you around

(1)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_County_Jail

[bigtunacan]

If that's the case then you should know being fit isn't going to mean much if you run into an actual BMFer.

I grew up in Atlanta and I lived in Chicago for awhile. From my personal experience, and the stats back me up, Atlanta is worse for violent crimes. The worst thing that happened in Chicago was someone broke into my car when I wasn't home. In Atlanta I was stabbed when I wouldn't hand over my wallet.

Through sheer luck during my youth I didn't end up dead or in prison.

[tptacek]

I live in Chicago(land --- across Austin from Austin and Augusta). What is statistically the worst block of the entire city?

[mattgreenrocks]

> If you were always moving out of the way when you were smaller, because you had to, is it so noble? If it isn’t truly a choice to?

I get what you're saying, but the subtext is the weak are less noble because they can be pushed around. Feels like punching down.

> Becoming attractive unlocks doors in the world that were previously locked.

Much better framing.

[hammock]

And I get that what I said can be interpreted that way but it’s far from the truth. If anything it’s easier for the weak to be noble because there are fewer decisions they are given to make.

At the other end of the spectrum it’s nearly impossible to be consistently noble if you are say, the leader of the free world, with great power comes great responsibility etc.

But in the Catholic Church for example there are just as many saints who had small influence, often not even extending beyond themselves to another person, as there are saints with massive, global influence

[matwood]

Not in my experience. The people who are assholes are usually not confident in who they are. They feel they always have to prove something. People who are confident in themselves if something goes down are typically the nicest people.

[giantg2]

Yeah, and the assholes are the ones who expect people to move out of their way because they're bigger.

[snapcaster]

Agreed, it's everyone that treats you better not just potential mates

[pavel_lishin]

I think this definitely depends on your age.

I'm about to hit 40, and I'm definitely more motivated by being healthier in 20 years, than I am by random strangers lusting for me. (I mean, it's nice to have my spouse lust after me, but turns out she does that with my current body.)

[jvanderbot]

Speak for yourself. I'm 42 and married and I want my wife to feel pangs of healthy jealousy. I want all the benefits of the halo effect.

Being able to get up off the ground quickly or drag the kids around on a sled is also nice.

[mattgreenrocks]

Truly grokking the extent of the halo effect was a bit of a I-want-to-puke moment. I suppose I expected that attraction could be an intrinsic thing. I don't think it undoes that, FWIW, but things like the halo effect certainly throw fuel on the fire.

[pavel_lishin]

My motivation to do at least a little bit of exercise every day to build up a routine stems directly from my back aching when I pick up my kid. I don't want it to ache! I want to play with my kid :P

[nkingsy]

My back aches when I pick up my kids because of poor form on heavy deadlifts in my late 20s, 15 years ago.

[pavel_lishin]

This is why I'm not doing those, at least not until I pay a professional to teach me how to do it properly :P

[red-iron-pine]

aye. long standing back, knee, and hernia issues from working out hard in the Marines.

form and recovery count for a lot, people!

[snapcaster]

Hell yeah man, get after it

[gamerDude]

That may be a reason to start, but most people that I know that consistently work out learn to enjoy it. For me, it helps me release emotions and feel more focused in the day.

Being fit definitely has its social benefits in romance, but it isn't the reason I go when it's far below freezing out at 730 in the morning.

Research also backs this. That the people who keep going find ways to enjoy it and not for the long term hope of losing weight or looking fit.

[toolz]

I really wish depressed people were more in tune with just how profound resistance training is for your mental and emotional health. Instead it seems easy to dismiss weight lifting as some sort of bro-club occupied by oppressive toxic individuals (at least that was my passive opinion of it for years).

[phil21]

I wouldn't quite say I went so far to think it was a toxic bro-club, but I certainly did not give resistance training the consideration I should have until this past year.

If I could make a single change in my life 20 years ago, it would be getting into a gym habit. I tried back then, but had both horrible trainers (the "puke and rally" bro type) and friends who didn't have a clue about what they were doing. It all seemed pointless to me unless immense effort was put in. I also worked landscape and came from a blue collar family background where working out was seen as a sign of bougieness - who needs to pay to go work out if you work hard all day?

But this year (at age 42) I got a personal trainer at a local gym and started going once a week. She is great, and matches my personality and style to the workouts. I never realized how quickly and easily you can start seeing results - and that feedback loop can be quite addictive.

I can't say I look forward to going into the gym now, but I at least don't dread it. Once I'm there and halfway through my routine I'm quite happy I went, and it really does impact your mood and emotional state probably much more than I even want to admit as I type this. It's hard to realize you went through most of your life ignoring such a major component of success - basically playing life on hard mode for no particular reason.

The gym is also interesting in that you can be having a real shitty unproductive day - but you go in and get your routine done - and you can still feel accomplished. Bad week at work? At least you still got your 3 workouts in and are 2% stronger than last month.

[dustincoates]

The crazy thing is, at least at every gym I've ever been at, that's the farthest thing from the truth when it comes to serious lifters.

They've all been, almost to a person, incredibly welcoming and eager to help. It's more often the casual exercisers that are a problem, if anything.

[ColonelPhantom]

Is it that the people who keep going find ways to enjoy it, or that the people who find ways to enjoy it keep going? Your comment seems to imply a certain causality that I do not find immediately convincing.

[robofanatic]

> it isn't the reason I go when it's far below freezing out at 730 in the morning

The reason could be addiction.

[toolz]

Not likely, the definition of addiction requires harm. Resistance training has profound wholistic benefits. It's possible that someone can neglect professional or personal relationships to the point of harm, but I don't think there's any reason to assume that's the case here.

My point is simply that just because you do something compulsively, does not make that thing an addiction. E.g. breathing is compulsive, but it's not an addiction.

[AtlasBarfed]

See: people working out even when injured, people who exercise to be as thin as possible. People doing steroids and other drugs for performance or appearance. These are edge cases.

They exist, and endorphins are using the addiction biological framework.

Regardless, exercise people.

[toolz]

Feel free to ignore this if it feels like nit-picking, but I'm particularly sensitive to "addiction" language.

We don't have a biological framework for addiction, we have a framework for building routines and healthy habits. The system is incredibly beneficial and we'd do ourselves a great disservice not utilizing that system to improve our health and lifestyle.

Again, I'm fairly sure we all understand what you're saying, but I find there's a great deal of cumulative power in the language/framing we use day-in and day-out and I believe my characterization isn't just optimistic, but more accurate.

[red-iron-pine]

> We don't have a biological framework for addiction

yeah, we do. and it involves neurotransmitters.

"addiction" may not be the right word in this (workout) context, but it's a well established concept in other contexts.

[mattgreenrocks]

Addiction is feeling compelled to do something against your will. Consciously choosing despite circumstances is probably the furthest thing from addiction, and what the OP is referring to.

You can learn to enjoy pushing yourself in this way. To an outsider it can look like you're hooked on it, or that it is easy to make the choice every time.

[matwood]

I've been lifting weights for so long I don't remember what my original motivation was. Probably look good and/or be better at sports. Now, it's just who I am. I like being strong and confident. I like the mental and emotional health I get from lifting. The only thing better than lifting weights has been BJJ. But, because I lifted weights for years, it was much easier to get into BJJ.

[red-iron-pine]

> the mental and emotional health I get from lifting

this should not be discounted -- a lot of studies back up the anti-depressant effects of regular exercise. i find it's the closest i get to a 'moment of zen'.

[matwood]

Definitely. My wife has said a few a times, "you're being an asshole, go workout," and she's right. No matter what's happening, it puts me back in a good state of mind.

[anbotero]

I started working out after a break up, so I could pick things up quickly again; I only did it for 6 months thinking about that, enough to get somewhat lean (I wasn’t obese).

To be honest, I’ve been doing it for 6 years (38M) and I only do it for health reasons. Sex, daily activities, I can do whatever just fine and usually with better performance. I don’t go pushing myself to the max, dead lifting Earth; just enough to (if I can) force myself a bit more and to keep me in shape and keep this strength that has helped me so much already. I don’t do no preaching, nor do I want to be in a strength competition, nor do I do it for attracting partners.

Good things come easier when you feel better yourself (confidence) and you can actually back some of those things up.

[ar_lan]

> It always feels like these articles never mention the "real" reasons people work out and stay motivated. It makes you super attractive!

I think this dismisses a large portion (possibly the majority) of people who exercise. There are major mental health benefits, it provides structure, it’s fun, etc.

If the only reason people work out is for aesthetics then everybody would just be a bodybuilder. But there’s a huge swath of sport and modalities people pursue instead.

[filoleg]

> If the only reason people work out is for aesthetics then everybody would just be a bodybuilder.

That makes an assumption that majority of the population thinks that bodybuilder physique is the most attractive one. If you are optimizing for aesthetics, imo the maxed out bodybuilding physique is both very difficult to achieve and isn’t going to optimize for most-liked aesthetic.

Out of bodybuilders i personally know, it is either about the challenge or going for the aesthetics that they themselves like and want (all while being very aware that it isn’t necessarily what most people like, and that’s valid).

That’s just a small nitpick though, fully agreed with the entirety of the rest of your comment.

[Zandikar]

> If the only reason people work out is for aesthetics then everybody would just be a bodybuilder.

You're assuming that the body builder aesthetic is everyones desired aesthetic, it's not.

Also, working out for your health and working out to be more attractive are not mutually exclusive things. I'd argue they're the same thing, and even if you disagree, it's still reasonable for a large numebr of individuals to cite both health and aesthetics as their motivation/reasoning.

[ar_lan]

> You're assuming that the body builder aesthetic is everyones desired aesthetic, it's not.

I'm not, it was just an example. I can't edit, but you're right this could be more clear. What I mean is that if aesthetics is the only goal then people would exercise optimizing for aesthetics exclusively.

> Also, working out for your health and working out to be more attractive are not mutually exclusive things. I'd argue they're the same thing, and even if you disagree, it's still reasonable for a large numebr of individuals to cite both health and aesthetics as their motivation/reasoning.

This is a strawman. I didn't say exercise is only for health, nor did I even imply it. I said that health can be a primary motivator. That said, I'd still disagree with your statement.

Someone who is diagnosed with diabetes and changes their lifestyle to be more active and eat better might get the benefit of looking better after some time, but I'm pretty sure their primary motivation is to not die. Remember, OP claimed the real reason people work out "is to look good".

But you're ignoring a lot of people who simply want to see what the human body is capable of, or just have fun, or any other number of motivators. Someone who runs ultra marathons, doing bodybuilding shows, powerlifting, etc. surely is more interested in testing their limits possibly at the expense of their health/aesthetics.

Or sometimes people just want to play basketball because it's just exceptionally fun.

[Zandikar]

> What I mean is that if aesthetics is the only goal then people would exercise optimizing for aesthetics exclusively.

In that case, apologies for misunderstanding, and agreed fully. I was saying the same.

The only part of your comment I disagreed with was the assertion I took issue with up top, which we've already covered was a miscommunication on our part. The rest of it was supporting what you said.

> I didn't say exercise is only for health, nor did I even imply it.

You aren't the only one in this comment chain, and the topic is the dichotomy between the motivating factors of aesthetics vs health in exercising for fitness, thus why I zeroed in on that, using your prior example and the implication therein to highlight that said dichotomy is not exclusive. we already addressed that as a miscommunication though rather than an actual disagreement.

In other words, I was agreeing. And despite you saying you disagree with me, you immediately go on to substantiate that point with the diabetic having multiple justifications for exercising: There's more than one reason to exercise, and they aren't exclusionary.

[m463]

Motivation depends on the individual. Why do people buy cars of color x? Why do people drink beer/wine/energy drinks/coffee?

[elzbardico]

Being attractive to members of your desired sex not necessarily mean being a Don Juan.

I am happily married for over 15 years and enjoy not being a couch potato for my wife. And of course, being fit helps a lot with your sex life besides the aesthetics aspect of it.

[jebarker]

Not for me. I do strength work because it enables me to keep running/hiking in the mountains and that's good for my mental health. Last year I had to have knee surgery due to a running injury, it's plausible that would have been avoided with stronger upper legs. I also have a kid now so I'm acutely aware of wanting to be healthy in old age so I can have more time with them. As I understand it, preventing loss of muscle mass is an important factor in longevity.

[FooBarWidget]

I think that really depends on your relationship status. I'm married and I'm more worried about longevity. Besides, my wife will not like it if I attract other girls.

Having said that, doing weight training or other kinds of exercise is really hard when kids are young and consume 98% of your time. Maybe in a couple of years I can start doing this seriously instead of ad-hoc. Hopefully still in time to combat the decline.

[gruez]

Related, but arguing for the opposite: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/nvmfqdytxyEpRJC3F/is-being-s...

[snapcaster]

Not the opposite, more like an additional point to what I mentioned. The key thing for people reading this who have never gone from fat to fit is that EVERYONE treats you better when you get fit. Men and women, it's not necessarily about sexual attraction people just appear to treat physical attractive people better in all cases.

[phil21]

Yes. This was the primary motivation for me to lose weight last year. Health is a close second, but it's a much more delayed gratification thing vs. seeing the immediate social benefits just 6mo later.

Going from morbidly obese to the mid-range of the normal weight BMI chart in about 6mo time has been absolutely eye opening for me.

It's less about sex than it is about appeal. I don't care so much about being desirable to the opposite sex these days - but the impact of being considered conventionally attractive in pretty much all social contexts is profound.

There certainly is an impact from self confidence, but it cannot explain the whole difference. Humans simply treat people they find attractive differently than those they do not.

[giardini]

snapcaster says "It makes you super attractive!"

I'm unconvinced. Visit any gym and you'll see that very few people are attractive and certainly no larger a percentage than the general population.

[bufio]

It's all in your head.

[snapcaster]

It really isn't man, it's "partially" in your head of course. Being more confident and secure does increase attraction, but sadly the halo effect is real and how attractive you are will massively influence your treatment

[starwin1159]

59 kg 190 cm 33 old

any suggestion?

[mharig]

Eat more meat.

[alienicecream]

"It's validating to have members of your desired sex lust for you."

Thank you, very politically aware of you, however, I am in good shape but do not feel the members of my desired sex lusting for me, please elaborate on how to induce this lust in the desired sex, diameter of biceps, visible abs? What is required of the facial geometry? Thank you, can barely ;) wait to be lusted for.

[snapcaster]

I don't know why you responded like this. Did something about my comment offend you? I don't get the impression you're asking for advice in good faith so won't answer, sorry if I misunderstood the tone