[bertil]

Always be kind, and say it’s your fault.

If you don’t do it for the sake of the person you are asking for help, do it because it works better. That’s the most practical advice [0] ever given by Hans Rosling [1], the Fact master himself:

> In fact, I have the secret to how to get the best help immediately from any customer service, like the phone company or the bank or anything. I have the best line, it always works. You want to know what it is? When I call, I say, “Hello. I am Hans Rosling and I have made a mistake.” People immediately want to help you when you put it this way. You get much more when you don’t offend people.

[0]: Unless you are in charge of a developing country’s budget and have to decide between education and healthcare.

[1]: https://blog.ted.com/qa_with_hans_ro_1/

[chunkymilk]

> Always be kind, and say it’s your fault.

I do this with internal teams at work. I've found approaching other teams with issues with their library/framework in a "this could be our mistake" manner really helps in keeping them from getting defensive and stonewalling.

[wintogreen74]

Saying, "I'm sorry; I've made a mistake" is the killer disarming technique for even the most emotional conflict. Not sure if it's our pride or fear of liability but western culture is very hesitant to say "sorry" - other than the fake one "I'm sorry if anyone interpreted my actions|remarks|words as ..." - that doesn't count.

[grouseway]

I know this is a tangent, but if anything, western culture is better about this. We're not an "honor" culture, and we don't warp family relationships to "save face". People are not even allowed to apologize in some other cultures because it brings shame on their family/group.

To give a really grotesque example, there is an country run by autocrats that carelessly unleashed a plague on the world because they prioritized their self image over taking descisive action to prevent an epidemic.

[spicymaki]

There are plenty of examples of honor culture within western culture, such as the Antebellum South. Dueling was huge amongst the aristocratic cultures of Europe and US (see Alexander Hamilton). It is certainly making a comeback today. In the US specifically certain people were against mask mandates to the point where they actually banned people wearing masks during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. Masks became a point of contention where some people needed to defend the family/group from wearing them at any cost.

[jeffhuys]

Do NOT do this too much, though. I did this in my last relationship and it turned into resentment from me, while she walked all over me, knowing I would say sorry for everything. It wasn’t her fault, I should’ve protected my values more, but this is a slippery slope. However, my next partner in my opinion should take this and say something like “no, this is not your fault. Let’s work on it”.

It could go both ways. I can never change though; saying sorry is too simple for me

[nlitened]

> she walked all over me

> It wasn’t her fault

Sir, I don't know you at all, but coming from personal experience, if you often get walked over, maybe it's time to stop taking shape of a door mat. Maybe it _was_ her fault, and you deserve better.

[alias_neo]

> maybe it's time to stop taking shape of a door mat

I'm sorry, I know this is a serious discussion, but this made me laugh. I need to use this in the future.

[5n00py]

I would agree on this from experience, even though I would agree with the initial statement as well. The advice applies for some parts in life but not all social contexts.

[dayjaby]

Admitting weakness gets exploited very easily by people.

Me: Sorry, I forgot about some details about the stuff I was working on last month.

Him: Your memory is so bad. I can literally remember all the details of the last 6 months. Try to become more like me.

[datadrivenangel]

And this is a great asshole filter.

[fuzztester]

google boss brain asshole joke

[theonething]

> but western culture is very hesitant to say "sorry"

This is very wrong. Eastern/Asian culture with its obsession with saving face is the culture where saying sorry is anathema.

[mrweasel]

It's also very Japanese to say "sorry" and accepting blame I believe. That might be what they mean with by "Asian culture", but it's certainly doesn't apply to all of Asia.

Years ago we started to get basic introduction into Chinese culture, so that we could better navigate situations with a Chinese customer. This helped to better understand requirements and defuse certain situations. I've NEVER experience Chinese or Indian companies go to the same length, instead they will frequently attempt to bullshit their way out of situations or be offended that you believe that their product/service might in some way be at fault and they sure as hell won't apologize for it, under any circumstances.

[cgrealy]

Just don’t generalise about massive groups of people? “Eastern” and “western” culture are not monoblocs.

[fuzztester]

"culture" itself is a stupid generalization

[david-gpu]

> Eastern/Asian culture with its obsession with saving face is the culture where saying sorry is anathema

Ever been to Japan?

[JoshTriplett]

Absolutely. The same is true for bug reports: if you always approach any bug report with the possibility that it may be your mistake, 1) you avoid annoying someone if it is your mistake, and might actually get helpful advice, and 2) you're more likely to get a cordial reception for real bugs.

You don't have to be excessively self-effacing about it, just avoid presenting things as though the project you're reporting it to being at fault is the only possible conclusion.

[jle17]

It's also important to consider how what you view as a bug might not be one from the point of view of the person treating your issue. It is so, so infuriating to receive a "bug" report asking you to "fix" something that is in fact a feature request for something that is not implemented yet.

Even if you get an error from the software, consider that you might not be using it as intended or setup properly.

[steve_adams_86]

I do something similar. Hey, I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong. Can you help me figure it out?

Then be grateful for the help, because it truly isn't granted or a given that people have to drop everything and figure things out for you, even if you work together. And even if the mistake was actually theirs. Gratitude is huge.

[davedx]

Whatever happened to honesty?

Sure, be kind, but don’t bullshit people. My personal and professional tolerance for bullshit is very low these days because there’s so much of it.

[thinkingemote]

Say "I might have made a mistake" as there's always a non zero probability even if small that you actually have even if you believe 100% that you haven't.

[vasco]

Yeah because a bunch of people will read this and instead of realising this means their state of mind should be one of humbleness and respect for who is going to help you, and that's why you lead with "hey I made a mistake", they'll still feel like other people messed up and are dumb and an obstacle to whatever they need to do but will add "I made a mistake" as a first sentence "life hack". Usually you can tell if someone means it based on how they write or say the rest of what they need though.

[makeitdouble]

You'd probably get the same response approaching them with a "we're trying to do this but couldn't make it work, could you help us ?" kind of pitch.

Except if you're actually convinced it could be your mistake, getting that tone will feel like getting played like some small kid. Most people will help you anyway and be professional, of course.

That reminds me of detective Columbo. It's cute and all when it's supposed to be done to strangers. Imagine Columbo coming to you every week with that same convoluted spiel.

[rendaw]

I think this works great sometimes, but I've been in plenty of situations where "I messed up" leads to being railroaded into the "boilerplate tech support" discussion tree. "Did you try doing X", "Did you confirm that Y is Z", "Make sure your VPN is working, try installing a new config", and finally "That's strange, double check all your parameters, there may be a typo in there somewhere"

[wbl]

My dad once took apart his motorcycle to change out a cylinder seal. He put it all back together and it wouldn't start. The mechanic at the shop heard the story, and then checked one thing: indeed my dad had forgotten to refuel it. That tech support tree is always worth checking.

[trogdor]

Oh, man. Flashback to the time I painstakingly rebuilt the carburetor on my scooter, then spent way too long trying to figure out why it wouldn’t start.

The kill switch was set to “off.”

[shutupnerd0000]

He took apart a motorcycle because the gas tank was empty?

[dijit]

no, he forgot to re-fill the tank after disassembling.

[KennyBlanken]

That's cute that you think people working the bottom rung have any sort of autonomy and aren't monitored constantly for compliance with scripts, decision trees, policies, and procedures.

[smoyer]

I'm going to try that's but will need more information about Hans Rosling to get through the identity verification ...

[wantoncl]

Or just watch his TED Talks, back when they were actually good:

https://youtu.be/hVimVzgtD6w https://www.ted.com/playlists/474/the_best_hans_rosling_talk...

[jeroenvlek]

You're joking, of course, but I recommend reading Factfulness if you want to learn more about the late Mr Rosling.

[mynameisnoone]

Blame doesn't really help solve or prevent problems. Root cause, blameless analysis with awareness and new tests and mitigation does. Also, career-wise, you won't become an IC9 by admitting to making a lot of mistakes. It's best to just solve them as fast as possible.

[abstrakraft]

I find laying of blame to be the most egregious waste of time, for work as well as personal issues. People who insist on it are, by and large, not people you want to spend time or money with.

[bertil]

Are you IC9?

[davedx]

Agree. Honesty, transparency, professionalism.

Practice those first, then work on inter personal soft skills.

Don’t bullshit people by lying to them about “whose fault it is”.

[chubs]

I like to append ", unless I'm missing something?" in a similar manner, might be useful in situations where 'made a mistake' doesn't actually make sense :)

[mrweasel]

One habit I picked up from a previous job was that if something is negative then it's always "I", if it's good, it's the team, "we". So "I failed to meet our deadline", "We successfully delivered the project on time and within budget".

It basically helps move things forward, blame has been allocated, how do we move on from here, but this only works if you have a health work environment.

This wasn't a company policy or anything like that, it was just how we talked and supported each other.

[maerF0x0]

Did you find it hard to sell/justify your own promotions when you were asked to self-review ? In the past I've found management quick to dilute my accomplisments as "Team" and pin my flaws as "Me"(maerf0x0). Been passed over for plenty of promotions in my day despite delivering value that just ticks away and does its job year after year, and rarely needs "firefighting" ...

[neilv]

You can ask customer service for help politely and constructively, without disingenuously (or passive-aggressively) stating that the problem is your fault.

If you want, you can acknowledge how you tried to fix it and failed (if that's accurate). But don't say that the problem is your fault unless it is.

(There are situations in which taking blame for a situation not necessarily yours might be a convention, but mistakes of vendors when talking with the vendor aren't one of them, IMHO. For example, you might take a little heat for colleagues, when appropriate, and all the CEO you're talking with needs to hear right then is, "Sorry, I don't have that for you yet; let me get that to you later today." Not "I've been pestering Bob since Monday for the dependency." Then you can go tell Bob that you two really need to solve this in the next couple hours. And if there's a larger problem, like Bob has been overextended by a family problem, or tasking has been unclear since a tentative pivot, then work it with management in the appropriate vertices of the org chart.)

[ZeroSolstice]

I'm going to be a bit pedantic and say fault and mistake are not equal in the message they convey. Hans says he has 'made a mistake' which is not the same as saying 'I'm at fault.' In the end it might be proven that you are at fault but until then all you know is that something went wrong, isn't working, etc.

[bertil]

I think that’s the kind of pedantry that is relevant in that case and in designing your product and customer support tree.

Friends of mine hearing him would say, He never says what the mistake is precisely, but there’s always the option that it was booking a flight with that airline.

[phgn]

Hey thank you so much for linking the Hans Rosling interview, he seemed like a really great guy -- it led me to buying his book just now!!

[jorvi]

I mean, that sounds very holistic in theory, but in practice just doesn't work out.

A few days ago I suddenly had my french press for coffee suddenly shatter and almost blast hot coffee over my upper body.

How am I supposed to start that call with "Hi, I'm jorvi and I made a mistake"..?

It's not like that is a unique situation either. And you can guarantee that if you tell customer service "I made a mistake", and it is clear they delivered a broken service / product (but often want to duck responsibilities), there is no way in hell they will not take the freebie you just gave them by admitting fault.

[CaptainOfCoit]

"Hi, I'm jorvi and seems I made a mistake or something, my french press just exploded in front of me! Can you help me figure out what went wrong?" is one way of putting it.

[ZeroSolstice]

I agree. If a part failed or broke unexpectantly it makes no sense to say it was `your fault` or `you made a mistake`. The goal is the solve the issue at hand and following the representative's instructions to either fix it or prove the item is defective is the easiest way to get there. If it was a mistake on your end you learned something new but I don't see any additional benefit by saying you made a mistake when you don't know what went wrong.

[bertil]

How can you be sure if you would never try?

[NateEag]

You can't, but it turns out acting reasonably under uncertainty is a better goal than being sure of things.

[hhsectech]

"Hi Hans Rosling..."

ticks the 'potential liability' box

"How can I help you?"

[DonHopkins]

"I've Made a Huge Mistake."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwQW3KW3DCc

[taskforcegemini]

this is what I usually do (to skip the blame game and get to working on the solution), but REALLY be careful about WHO you tell that you made a mistake

[fuzztester]

that dale carnegie book