[chunkymilk]

> Always be kind, and say it’s your fault.

I do this with internal teams at work. I've found approaching other teams with issues with their library/framework in a "this could be our mistake" manner really helps in keeping them from getting defensive and stonewalling.

[wintogreen74]

Saying, "I'm sorry; I've made a mistake" is the killer disarming technique for even the most emotional conflict. Not sure if it's our pride or fear of liability but western culture is very hesitant to say "sorry" - other than the fake one "I'm sorry if anyone interpreted my actions|remarks|words as ..." - that doesn't count.

[grouseway]

I know this is a tangent, but if anything, western culture is better about this. We're not an "honor" culture, and we don't warp family relationships to "save face". People are not even allowed to apologize in some other cultures because it brings shame on their family/group.

To give a really grotesque example, there is an country run by autocrats that carelessly unleashed a plague on the world because they prioritized their self image over taking descisive action to prevent an epidemic.

[spicymaki]

There are plenty of examples of honor culture within western culture, such as the Antebellum South. Dueling was huge amongst the aristocratic cultures of Europe and US (see Alexander Hamilton). It is certainly making a comeback today. In the US specifically certain people were against mask mandates to the point where they actually banned people wearing masks during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. Masks became a point of contention where some people needed to defend the family/group from wearing them at any cost.

[jeffhuys]

Do NOT do this too much, though. I did this in my last relationship and it turned into resentment from me, while she walked all over me, knowing I would say sorry for everything. It wasn’t her fault, I should’ve protected my values more, but this is a slippery slope. However, my next partner in my opinion should take this and say something like “no, this is not your fault. Let’s work on it”.

It could go both ways. I can never change though; saying sorry is too simple for me

[nlitened]

> she walked all over me

> It wasn’t her fault

Sir, I don't know you at all, but coming from personal experience, if you often get walked over, maybe it's time to stop taking shape of a door mat. Maybe it _was_ her fault, and you deserve better.

[alias_neo]

> maybe it's time to stop taking shape of a door mat

I'm sorry, I know this is a serious discussion, but this made me laugh. I need to use this in the future.

[5n00py]

I would agree on this from experience, even though I would agree with the initial statement as well. The advice applies for some parts in life but not all social contexts.

[dayjaby]

Admitting weakness gets exploited very easily by people.

Me: Sorry, I forgot about some details about the stuff I was working on last month.

Him: Your memory is so bad. I can literally remember all the details of the last 6 months. Try to become more like me.

[datadrivenangel]

And this is a great asshole filter.

[fuzztester]

google boss brain asshole joke

[theonething]

> but western culture is very hesitant to say "sorry"

This is very wrong. Eastern/Asian culture with its obsession with saving face is the culture where saying sorry is anathema.

[mrweasel]

It's also very Japanese to say "sorry" and accepting blame I believe. That might be what they mean with by "Asian culture", but it's certainly doesn't apply to all of Asia.

Years ago we started to get basic introduction into Chinese culture, so that we could better navigate situations with a Chinese customer. This helped to better understand requirements and defuse certain situations. I've NEVER experience Chinese or Indian companies go to the same length, instead they will frequently attempt to bullshit their way out of situations or be offended that you believe that their product/service might in some way be at fault and they sure as hell won't apologize for it, under any circumstances.

[cgrealy]

Just don’t generalise about massive groups of people? “Eastern” and “western” culture are not monoblocs.

[fuzztester]

"culture" itself is a stupid generalization

[david-gpu]

> Eastern/Asian culture with its obsession with saving face is the culture where saying sorry is anathema

Ever been to Japan?

[JoshTriplett]

Absolutely. The same is true for bug reports: if you always approach any bug report with the possibility that it may be your mistake, 1) you avoid annoying someone if it is your mistake, and might actually get helpful advice, and 2) you're more likely to get a cordial reception for real bugs.

You don't have to be excessively self-effacing about it, just avoid presenting things as though the project you're reporting it to being at fault is the only possible conclusion.

[jle17]

It's also important to consider how what you view as a bug might not be one from the point of view of the person treating your issue. It is so, so infuriating to receive a "bug" report asking you to "fix" something that is in fact a feature request for something that is not implemented yet.

Even if you get an error from the software, consider that you might not be using it as intended or setup properly.

[steve_adams_86]

I do something similar. Hey, I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong. Can you help me figure it out?

Then be grateful for the help, because it truly isn't granted or a given that people have to drop everything and figure things out for you, even if you work together. And even if the mistake was actually theirs. Gratitude is huge.

[davedx]

Whatever happened to honesty?

Sure, be kind, but don’t bullshit people. My personal and professional tolerance for bullshit is very low these days because there’s so much of it.

[thinkingemote]

Say "I might have made a mistake" as there's always a non zero probability even if small that you actually have even if you believe 100% that you haven't.

[vasco]

Yeah because a bunch of people will read this and instead of realising this means their state of mind should be one of humbleness and respect for who is going to help you, and that's why you lead with "hey I made a mistake", they'll still feel like other people messed up and are dumb and an obstacle to whatever they need to do but will add "I made a mistake" as a first sentence "life hack". Usually you can tell if someone means it based on how they write or say the rest of what they need though.

[makeitdouble]

You'd probably get the same response approaching them with a "we're trying to do this but couldn't make it work, could you help us ?" kind of pitch.

Except if you're actually convinced it could be your mistake, getting that tone will feel like getting played like some small kid. Most people will help you anyway and be professional, of course.

That reminds me of detective Columbo. It's cute and all when it's supposed to be done to strangers. Imagine Columbo coming to you every week with that same convoluted spiel.