Ask HN: Are You a Failure?

[_fvh3]

Do you have a failed business, career, or "general" venture? If so, I would appreciate it if you could provide a brief description or a link to the project, as well as answers to the following questions:

What is the threshold for failure in your specific case?

Was there something that implicitly caused the failure that you have now realised?

Did it result in a net loss in terms of financial investment?

[toldyouso2022]

I am 35, I live on welfare and I never had a real job, only worked as a freelancer (never earned much, just a few thousands). My portfolio used to be okay a few years ago, but I was never able to capitalize on it and my programming skills because I have an inferiority complex due to the fact I don't have a degree. Of course abusive family, etc didn't help and they brought financial problems.

If you met me you wouldn't be able to tell I'm this ruined because I can socialize without problems, I'm not addicted to substances and I'm generally well liked (people invite me to events, etc). I just had a string of bad coincidences and I got thrown out of society.

especially in Italy, I feel once you go off the tracks it's hard to get back in society.

[226_ebro_treaty]

Have you thought about going back to college, at least part-time, to make yourself more employable in Italy?

[kevviiinn]

Abusive family can have a big impact on motivation and view on self worth. I hope you can see past the bullshit, you aren't worthless. Don't let them drag you down

[_fvh3]

Yep, especially because a lot of privilege and "luck" can come from family and connections

[toldyouso2022]

Thanks you're very kind

[thiago_fm]

I'm in my 30s, and despite being a gifted kid, moving to a first world country, speaking 3 languages and making great pay as a senior eng, I still feel like a failure for:

- Not having my own business

- Not managing people at the moment or doing many leadership activities

- Not having 7 figures networth

- Being a homeowner, but still paying mortgage for the next 10 years

- Not being yet an excellent communicator, and oh boy, I did invest sooo many hours into this

We all feel like this sometimes, despite many achievements, it's part of being a human to desire for more, and admire others for making it much further than us.

Nevertheless, I think we need to appreciate what we've got going for us, no matter how small that thing is, because life is full of surprises and if I look back, many of my achievements were because I kept fighting no matter how unfavorable the odds were.

Another aspect is that time in our lives is limited. With my poor upbringing I've already spent countless hours dedicating myself to making more money and becoming more successful and optimizing for certain outcomes.

Is it worth to keep doing this endlessly, until I have no more days left, or just give me time to enjoy what I have now? That's why it's important for us to understand what we want out of life outside of what is expected from us. So removing a few items of your "life TODO list" and accepting to be a failure on them is okay.

Maybe all you needed was more summer days in a park and you are wasting your time looking to become more prestigious in your field of work.

Comprehending the price of success and allowing yourself to "be a failure" seems to be more interesting to me lately... also more challenging, as I've been trained to win. I took years of therapy to reach that conclusion, hope it helps you and calms your heart.

[cyclotron3k]

I've had this quote from George Orwell knocking around inside my head recently: "A man who gives a good account of himself is probably lying, since any life when viewed from the inside is simply a series of defeats."

[xupybd]

Just to let you know, your written English reads like a native speaker.

[thiago_fm]

I've been working on it, that's always a delight to hear.

[AprilPhoenix]

I don't need to post links. I've failed at everything I've ever done in my life, professional or otherwise. I'm broke as a result. This isn't hyperbole, and I'm sorry if it sounds melodramatic-I think the user handle should show my mentality, FWIW.

There are a lot of reasons why, but the one that is relevant to this thread is not grasping the following: not realizing that people who stand out in life are so adept at picking themselves up from failure, do it so rapidly and seamlessly, have had so much practice at doing it that you don't even recognize they do it.

Practice doing that. No matter how insignificant the task is. My threshold for failure now is not doing that, and not pushing myself in life tasks where it really matters to me personally. (Important to distinguish.) And I'm already seeing a difference.

[226_ebro_treaty]

I know what you mean because when my friend "failed", he spent a year working odd jobs, learning some Stock Market "stuff", and then decided to pursue a degree online and within less than a year he had a WFH job (a rarity at the time) lined up in his field.

Meanwhile, in comparison I failed more and more, and am still struggling to this day. Unlike you I am not broke, but I have severe health anxiety, as well as a lower intelligence level than most (at least when it comes down to academics). Needless to say, I'm a college dropout.

Oddly enough my friends are successful people. PhD holders, Business Owners, and people working in very respectable fields. I just wish I was a little like them, but alas.

We shall overcome!

[throwaway0842]

> Oddly enough my friends are successful people. PhD holders, Business Owners, and people working in very respectable fields. I just wish I was a little like them, but alas.

God I feel that. I’m not one to usually be spiteful or jealous or others success but it’s getting really hard to see everyone’s wins while it seems like my life is collapsing now.

[226_ebro_treaty]

You feel like that because you want to be successful like them. It's a normal feeling. I'd be weirded out by someone who doesn't have it. Virtual hug.

We're all just strangers on the internet, but I feel just like you do. It does discourage me. I've cried. I've been angry against people who have tried to help me out of pure altruism. It's hell. People who are lucky enough not to experience this will never understand what's like to have a mental breakdown on a Friday Night at 8pm, in which you question your entire life, while people your age are having the time of their lives partying and drinking.

No matter what you do, keep on trying. That's what I do. There are other things in life who make it worth living besides a salary and a career. Again, virtual hug.

[ManlyBread]

Friend told me about Bitcoin in 2009 and I dismissed it as stupid. Tried to get into it in 2012, even mined it for a bit but ultimately stopped and used what I've mined to buy a bunch of useless stuff like Namecoin domains. Dismissed it again when it hit 800$ thinking it can never be be higher. Wrong again.

Basically I tried to hop onto the train several times and each time it felt like I shouldn't (so I didn't), yet at the same time these were the perfect opportunities to do so. If at any point in my life I'd decide to take it more seriously I might have been able to significantly increase my wealth. I wonder if the next best moment to do so is now.

[roland35]

I had an extra $1k to invest in 2010, and I narrowed it down between Apple stock and Bitcoin (lol). I ended up choosing APPL, which of course did well, but I ended up selling all of it shortly after to buy a laptop.

Long story short, I'm sure I would have sold Bitcoin a looong time ago too, had I purchased it. Don't beat yourself up over it! And especially don't go after other silly high risk investments to make up for the FOMO!

[is_true]

Everyday there are dozens of opportunities to become rich, just play the lottery.

[Silverback_VII]

>I wonder if the next best moment to do so is now.

Your post seems like a sophisticated advertisement, and it probably is.

[giantg2]

I mined .10 BTC around 2012. I lost it somehow (never properly transfered to the wallet). I was really trying hard to find it once it got over BTC hit $20k.

[S_Bear]

My wife and cats love me, I have fun and engaging hobbies, and we make enough each month to pay bills and have a little left over. After getting hammered in 09 during the recession, I gave up my ambitions and started living in the moment a bit more. Since then, I've been diagnosed with a degenerative joint disorder that limits my capabilities.

Every now and then I see a job posting that piques my interest, but I'm largely content with my life and plan to run out the last 12 years of work with as little stress as possible. I could buckle down and make more money and retire sooner, but it really isn't worth the stress.

[226_ebro_treaty]

What happened to you in the 2009 recession?

[S_Bear]

Got let go a week after closing on a house. Learned the true value of hard work and loyalty, as my network shunned me and I stumbled around for a few years in a new career. Thankfully my wife's income let us run only a little in the red for a couple years until I could find my footing again.

Doing great now, but I'm never giving a job any more effort than I'm comfortable giving. I killed myself with crazy hours for 3 years and had nothing to show for it.

[226_ebro_treaty]

Thanks for sharing! Best of luck!

[matheusmoreira]

Career. I'm not a failure in general, I'm pretty successful. I consider myself a failure as a programmer though. I failed myself when I was a teenager by quitting and choosing another profession instead. I did it because at the time I thought I was gonna be miserable doing it for a living. These days... I don't know. I suppose I'll forever wonder what could have been.

[level87]

I did something similar. I spent my 20's and early 30's working as a furniture maker, I loved parts of it but financially it was difficult. When I was younger I spent whole summers coding for fun, all the friends I had at that time are now working at Google and Facebook while I am just getting started again.

I love making things and solving problems, and the medium isn't as important as I once thought. I wish I had realised this earlier and perhaps I would be further along in my career and financially more successful, but life doesn't work like that I guess. I feel like I've done things in reverse as I often read about software engineers romanticising woodwork.

[226_ebro_treaty]

You've just described grass is always greener on the other side :-)

[silisili]

Same feeling. I was writing games and small applications C++ for fun as a teen in the 90s. I was so fascinated by it, but found ultimately, it really depressed me. Probably just spending too much time thinking, not socializing, etc.

Didn't touch code or an editor again until 2009 or so, on accident so to speak trying to debug something for the boss. Found out a couple years later that I could get paid to code...had no idea. Then saw what all those kids at Stanford did and were making, and immediately felt like I missed the biggest opportunity of my life.

Oh well. Millions of what could have beens in life, no sense in wondering...

[matheusmoreira]

> it really depressed me. Probably just spending too much time thinking, not socializing, etc.

Yeah. Moving away from programming had an incredibly positive effect on my life. Almost everything that used to be awkward for me is easy now because of that one choice. Especially socialization, communication, speaking in public and with confidence, interpersonal skills in general. I really developed as a person in ways I don't think I would have otherwise.

I do miss that long deep thoughtful concentration though. Just thinking about software. The ideas present in the code and how they relate. Better ways to express them. Like a beautiful little puzzle coming together. A reflection of my mind. Twelve hours straight of nothing but this.

I'm glad I can afford to do this as a hobby now.

> Then saw what all those kids at Stanford did and were making, and immediately felt like I missed the biggest opportunity of my life.

Managed to avoid that particular dreadful feeling at least. Typical software engineer salaries that get posted here are truly ridiculous amounts of money in my country. Would be wonderful if I could make that much money working remotely from here but they're not gonna pay US salaries to non-US citizens. The exchange rate arbitrage is what makes them attractive to employers in the first place. I calculated how much they'd have to pay me for it to make sense to switch careers and was pretty happy with the result.

[silisili]

I think it's important to take stock of what you have, and especially if you subscribe to the butterfly effect way of thinking, realize it would all be gone.

For example, I have a wife I couldn't imagine living without, and a child who fills my days with laughter. I've been married twice, so this isn't a case of not knowing what's out there, but appreciating what I have now. I have a nice enough house, my health, a vehicle, even a fun little dog.

So any vision of an alternate path would have to exclude all that. Maybe it would be better even. Maybe it would be far worse. I wouldn't trade what I have for a billion dollars, so that removes most of the financial incentives, I guess.

[rexpop]

> Moving away from programming had an incredibly positive effect on my life. Almost everything that used to be awkward for me is easy now because of that one choice. Especially socialization, communication, speaking in public and with confidence, interpersonal skills in general.

I realize that you are possibly rationalizing and grieving a loss, ie employing a "sour grapes" perspective, but programming is not an inexorable obstacle to interpersonal skills. On the contrary, it can be—and has been for the gross bulk of my career—a highly social activity not unlike relating anecdotes at cocktail party while playing the piano. It's a true shame, and pet peeve, that coders are painted all with the brush of introversion, seclusion, isolation and singular, misanthropic focus.

[matheusmoreira]

I'm not saying developers are all like this. I'm saying I used to be like this. I was definitely one of those stereotypical introverts. I just didn't want to socialize at all. Computers were so much more interesting than people to me. As a kid I felt more comfortable just immersing myself in computing for 14 hours straight.

Only after I moved away from programming to a people-oriented profession did that change. I'm sure others will have different experiences and they're just as valid.

I don't think I have a sour grapes perspective at all. I'm proud of my choices. When I was writing that post it just became clear to me the consequences of those choices: what I gained and what I gave up. Sometimes I wonder what life would have been like had I made different choices but overall I'm happy with the path my life took. I still consider myself a failed programmer but that's okay.

[sph]

Having a failed business or career != being a failure.

Every successful person has failed at something, until they succeeded. That's how it works.

The premise of this post is very shaky.

[_fvh3]

Honestly I wrote the title just for clickbait, people in turn interpreted the post as if I was asking if "they were a failure", though I was really asking if they had a failed business or career. Unfortunately, I cannot edit post titles.

[temp20230425]

I'm 30 and this is my situation:

- I have health issues that decrease my quality of life and leads to embarrassment. I can't work an in-person job anymore.

- I work freelance but have one client, and they're an miser - very tight with cash, so I barely meet my minimum needed income to cover expenses and save a little.

- Because of the above, I have been stuck in a very poor apartment for the last 8 months. Water leaks, air quality issues, noise, shit-water rings around the toilet base, dangerous electrical faults, etc

- Prior I was a late to graduate college student, then worked at a few corporate jobs, but it killed me to be a part of that corporate dysfunction I saw every day.

- I quit multiple jobs because they burned me out.

- I think I'm still burned out because my client is being a prick, not giving me the hours I need yet expects me to be available.

- I keep thinking about starting my own business, but no sustainable income = no business

- I have an addiction to THC edibles because it makes my situation feel less hopeless.

- I'm a complete idiot see above.

[_fvh3]

Do you think you could still enter the job market working something like a part time job to prevent burnout? Its quite refreshing to hear a realistic situation of freelancing, so thanks for posting.

I know something like THC or drugs will be my downfall in life, I have a very addictive personality and often cannot escape addiction of any kind

[revelio]

I have a business that is on track for failure. It's got some time yet but seems unlikely to turn around. The threshold for failure in this case is that it does not generate enough revenue to pay me and my partner a proper salary and won't any time soon. The cause is probably one of either over-estimating the market size or under-estimating the difficulty of building awareness of the product within that market. It's a bit hard to tell the difference. There might be other causes but it amounts to: not enough customers show up and pay for the product, and advertising doesn't seem to work. It will have resulted in a net loss, however, I'm lucky to have ample resources and so it won't make much difference to my overall net worth. It is an affordable failure.

A deeper root cause is perhaps a different kind of failure in the past. Several times in my career I've had the experience of appearing to have career success due to either initiating or being very early involved in successful projects. But this didn't lead to a stable or cushy career. Instead what happened each time is that after a few years the organizations in effect thanked me for my work and then pushed me aside due to various forms of back-room politics. I've never been fired but have been sidelined or driven to quit, each time with the people closest to what happened making it clear that what happened was deeply unfair and often not just involving me but also others being pushed out at the same time (and thus usually it wasn't strictly personal but involved wider organizational dysfunction).

Creating a company was my hope for an escape from this, to find peace and stability at last where good work done can build something for the long term, without the constant mental drain of wondering if there are people manoeuvering behind the scenes to tear it all down. Alas, you can see the key weakness: the company was created to satisfy my own needs, not because I saw an upswell of untapped customer demand. Creating successful companies is hard, especially in the software world where there are many competitors who are engage in market dumping with loose VC money for years or decades at a time. I chose not to raise (a deliberate choice, the option was there), because building a cash burner is easy but doesn't satisfy the goal of creating long term stability. So unless we pivot and get lucky with some new idea I'll probably have to return to the corporate world later this year or next and just get used to the idea that life will likely always be somewhat restless.

[ggwp99]

I have failed so much in my life career-wise: fired from multiple jobs, lost huge investments, failed in 3 businesses embarrassingly, burnt out and let everyone down etc... What I thought initially is that I was never going to be able to get out of it, I am doomed. Reality is people forget instantly, but you get lessons that you use your entire life. If someone did not fail and directly succeeded, I am wary of them as something must be wrong. You will learn to love failure and appreciate the lessons.

[_fvh3]

Thanks for sharing!

[throwaway0842]

If I do not find another job soon, it’s safe to say my career was a failure. Sad because it was the one thing that I was area of life I actually managed to get anything out of so far.

As for why, there’s too much to try and condense into a single HN comment, but my career started off on the wrong foot, and I was not really that “into” tech by the time I decided to make the jump from hobbyist to professional.

I would not say it was a net loss though, mostly because it didn’t cost me much and I did manage to snag some decent money finally by the end. No, the net loss is probably going to be in whatever I try to do next.

[_fvh3]

you are not a failure in my eyes

[giantg2]

I'm a failure. I didn't live up to my potential. I'm lazy. Nothing I do works anymore. My career is in jeopardy because I'm "slow".

My main cause would be naivete. I believed all the stuff you're taught about the world in schools, by parents, etc. I believed the company when they told me stuff like they don't outsource or layoff. I'm wasn't aggressive enough to go after promotions or switch jobs. This resulted in me (dev, masters, 10+ yoe) living in a med-high COL making close to $100k with a family to support.

[226_ebro_treaty]

I'd love to fail into making $100k :-)

[giantg2]

Well I might not be making it much longer with my bad ratings. Plus, it's not a lot for supporting a family (lower cost areas would be different).

[226_ebro_treaty]

I understand. Hope you make it through your current difficult situation, and get to a better place. Wish you the best of luck!

I just wanted to point out that to consider yourself a failure because you're "only" making 100k is a bit ridiculous. Going by that metric, 99% of the world's population is a failure. You're not a failure. You've just fallen through some hard times. Try your best, and you'll be out of them soon enough.

Virtual hug.

[giantg2]

"you're "only" making 100k is a bit ridiculous. Going by that metric, 99% of the world's population is a failure."

Ok, I'll put it a different way - houshold income is below the 50th percentile for the area. So by that measure, 50% of the world population is doing better than I am on a location-based relative measure.

[xupybd]

One job that is a bad fit does not define you. You are probably not as bad as you think. This might not be the job that best suites you. Don't give up.

[_fvh3]

From an outside perspective OP sound really pretentious and a show off, though I think he is mischaracterising failure as a "missed goal"

[giantg2]

Sure it does. I don't have any other options and it will define my life through the hours I spend there and the income I derive from it.

[_fvh3]

Thank you for sharing your situation

If you don't mind me asking, are you the only person in your household with a significant income & do you live in a country with social services for childcare?

[giantg2]

Yes, and not really. Although childcare is not a barrier in our situation.

[_fvh3]

Sorry, to clarify I meant: Is state-funded childcare an option in the country you reside in?

[aizyuval]

Im 18 yo, trying to understand this world and myself. I started a venture last year, which I was crazy about as my first. A few months didn’t pass by until I got noticed that my so-called friend so-called “partner” has been cheating me and frauding me. The product sucked and I seemed to be (unintentionally) screwing my customers.

I should have checked my partners more closely and also the product.

Looking back, I don’t understand it - but I stopped it then. Since then I’ve been fighting to start a promising venture with no success. Yet. It’s been a year and a half.

[xupybd]

If you're 18 you are too young to have failed. It sounds like you're doing very well for someone of your age. Most haven't tried to launch a product at 18.

[aizyuval]

It did feel like a big, stupid failure, but you’re right. Thanks for the words.

[swami108]

I’ve failed more times than most people. But I’m not a failure.

[_fvh3]

Im glad I made you comment for the 1st time making you comment since you made your account in 2013 :)

[swami108]

Tells you how many years I’ve been failing

[_fvh3]

Haha, I only looked at your profile to check out your "failed" projects. If it's okay with you, could you please provide a brief description or links to those projects that didn't quite work out?

Edit: If this sounds like an AI response I used ChatGPT to correct my grammar, I can barely write a coherent sentence on my own, even though I am a native speaker.

[swami108]

Haha, no worries :)

My latest failure was Wize, a mobile app that let anyone share their skills. It was a great idea, a bit early for its times (live streaming app before Instagram Live and Tik Tok), and it had a great start--we were in the top 20 at the Launch Hackathon, won an award from Google, and we had grammy award music teachers teaching on the platform. It failed because we pivoted too early. Building the two sided market was challenging, but instead of narrowing our focus to one topic, we decided to pivot to a "professional 1-1 coffee chat platform", and then again to a networking app–"Tinder for professionals." After going to a lot of conferences and meetups and talking to professionals, the resounding message we heard was that this domain was tough to dominate and it was going to be an uphill battle for us.

The biggest lesson I learnt in this is take advice with a pinch of salt. There are many successful apps today that resemble v1 (Maven), v2 (Intro), and v3 of Wize, and I think we would have been fine if we had persisted.

A more detailed write up of Wize, if you're interested: https://swamiphoto.com/wize

[ipaddr]

I see everything as a failure and success. It's a two headed 3d coin and everything depends on where you are looking from and where you are looking to

[_fvh3]

I wonder if posting this was a good thing or a bad thing

[_fvh3]

By venture I mean something akin to a financial goal

[_fvh3]

HN really be [Dead]-ing the most wholesome posts

[codevark]

In the late '90s, we were Amazon before Amazon knew what it was doing.

Now I work in IT for a private college. Pay sucks, benefits are great.

I tell a lot of stories to the young folks.

[_fvh3]

What do you think was the factor that prevented you from becoming Amazon?

Thanks for posting

[sneed_chucker]

Sounds comfy honestly, as long as you can pay the bills