[ChrisMarshallNY]

I find it heartbreaking.

I grew up in the Cold War (my father was in the CIA). Russians were considered brutish, non-creative, and untrustworthy.

Then, the Berlin Wall came down, and everything changed.

I started to see amazing creativity come from Russia. Music, technology, art, actors, dance, all kinds of stuff. I loved working with Russian engineers. They were some of the best techs I'd worked with. I have a lot of Russian music in my iTunes rotation. I've enjoyed a number of Russian shows, on Netflix. At one time, that would never have been the case.

It really seems as if the door has been slammed on that.

[asats]

Most of the brightest ones have left the country, so I do wonder if it might result in being a net positive for the world, moving a million brightest people from a decaying autocracy into the functional countries with good management, potential investors and a culture of innovation.

Russian culture in Russia might be done for though, at least for a while.

[qzw]

>> Most of the brightest ones have left the country

I feel like that needs to be qualified? Maybe ages 20-40 and of a certain social-economic class can leave fairly easily, but it’s gotta be much harder to leave if you’re too young, too old, too poor, have too few connections, or have aged parents, young children, etc.

[asats]

Well, that's what I mean, a million of the 20-40 age group of a certain socioeconomic class, with relevant skills, a lot of ambition and not many dependents. Those are the exact group to start new things and do a lot of good, and my point was that maybe the world is better off with them in the more productive countries vs even the pre-war Russia.

[ghostwriter]

You’re conflating a group of pro-western enterprise software developers - with little to no adulthood responsibilities aside their work, due to their age - with a group of the brightest folks.

[asats]

Software developers make up maybe a third of that wave, if that. There's also artists, scientists, teachers, journalists, political activists and all kinds of other folks that simply don't see the future in the country. A lot of them are families with kids, so it's often not the lack of responsibilities but a higher willingness to take the risk.

[ghostwriter]

Political activists and journalists are hardly the brightest group of people either, so you’re just assigning the opposition group that you prefer to align with, with a token of “the brightest” because it makes you feel good about it. How about you look at the rest of the society who couldn’t or weren’t willing to leave the country and who still run projects in Russia despite the sanctions. Are they not the brightest because they work and associate their career within - let’s say for the sake of the argument - Rosatom? That’s just one hard science sector of the vast energy industry of the country, for starters.

[ivan_gammel]

People who left the country are not just software developers. We have seen the exodus of musicians, scientists etc, which after some very painful decision process just packed their things and took next flight anywhere. Many took their families.

[ghostwriter]

Software engineers were a simple example of the conflation point. Those who left and those who’re the brightest aren’t the same group.

[hdjjhhvvhga]

> pro-western

What does being pro- or anti-West has to do with the topic? There are many Russian expats in Germany who openly manifest their support for Putin's war on the streets of Berlin. You can be anti-Western and at the same time pragmatically leave Russia to avoid draft and being killed for basically no reason.

[ghostwriter]

That’s a fair point. I was trying to exemplify the conflation point between two groups with the assigned traits (“the brightest” vs “rest of them”) with bringing my own selection of people everyone would clearly disagree with to be a valid representation.

[q1w2]

For those that cannot afford going to the West, others have migrated to Turkey, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Armenia, etc..

[yostrovs]

In many ways, Russian culture has been preserved better outside of Russia than inside. Russians have had a tendency over last few hundred years to absorb other cultures rapidly, thus changing their own. French, Italian, English, now American. Watching Russian TV now by someone who left in the 1990s is quite strange because almost every other word is taken from English, while a different word was used in Russian 30 years ago.

[thriftwy]

I wonder if there are any specific examples of Russian culture that are preserved outside Russia but lost inside Russia.

Russia 30 years ago was a failed and miserable state with corresponding words choice. In the modern Russia not many actual people watch TV.

[asats]

The russian old believers in Brazil is the first example that comes to mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17-3EGQ1aAw

[thriftwy]

The preservation of rural everyday culture, dress and habits is a nice thing, but Russians in general are an urbanized nation whose culture is in books, music sheets and moving pictures.

I doubt that Latin American Old Believers produce, or even retain, much of these.

[yostrovs]

You're referring to Soviet culture mostly, particularly in regards to film.

[yostrovs]

Russian food, language, and religion are better preserved by Russian communities outside Russia. Immigrants that left in 1990s as adults speak purer Russian than TV news people.

[ivan_gammel]

“Preserved” in the original state, like in museum - yes. Russian communities outside Russia rarely contributed anything new to it. Russian culture actively developed in last 30 years, against all odds and efforts of the state, which coincidentally wanted to freeze it or roll back in time too.

Russian language indeed borrowed a few words, but this is not a bad thing, it’s a common reflection of Zeitgeist that happened to the language before.

[yostrovs]

Russians outside Russia for the last 100 years have contributed literature, music, movies, and helped to introduce Russian cultural aspects to the West. In the past 30 years this only accelerated. Even before this war there were huge numbers of Russian intellectuals, artists, etc living in the West, but contributing to Russian culture.

[dimaaan]

Thank you for that kind of words.

It's so rare nowadays.

While i agree with technology, art (painters, literature), dance (ballet), i didn't think Russia brings much to the worlds of music.

Curious what is in you iTunes rotation?

[ChrisMarshallNY]

Mostly techno stuff.

Also, surprisingly, some really good flamenco guitar, and Arabic-inspired stuff.

Some might be from former Russian nations, but some is straight from St. Petersburg.

I’m not really in a position, at the moment, to find the various songs. I have a big library, and it takes a while to find stuff.

I have very eclectic tastes.

[SSLy]

s/former Russian/former Soviet/

[ChrisMarshallNY]

Good point. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Teodorz]

Also, Russian rock bands are really good if you know the language. The words are deep and emotional and far from banal standards.

[kelipso]

Russia and US were political enemies.

> Russians were considered brutish, non-creative, and untrustworthy.

Russia and US stopped being political enemies.

> I started to see amazing creativity come from Russia.

Russia and US started being political enemies again.

> Russians are considered brutish, non-creative, and untrustworthy.

It's not really clear but I think I'm starting to see a pattern here.

[gumballindie]

Yeah one of the two is constantly brutalising its neighbours, while the other is busy building tech and defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries. Our grandparents told us stories about the russian army that many found hard to believe. And here we are proven that they were right all along.

[biorach]

>defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries

You mean America was doing the defending? That's hilarious.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in...

And then there's the horror show of American intervention in South East Asia, and then there's the meddle, I mean Middle East.

[capableweb]

The US has been proven to meddle in democratic elections in every single continent, except Africa I think, at this point. But meddling in Africa will surely be made public at one point or another.

[ethbr0]

On the other hand, are we really comparing the leadership of Afghanistan and Iraq to Ukraine and deciding these things are the same?

Last I checked, Ukraine hadn't invaded its neighbors, gassed ethnic minorities, or taken freedom from its entire female population.

The US handled Afghanistan and Iraq poorly, and lied about reasons for going in, but there were actual underlying reasons.

Ukraine is only being invaded because Russia thinks it can.

Hell, Ukraine explicitly gave up its weapons of mass destruction... in exchange for security guarantees... from Russia.

[ForestCritter]

Actually, Ukraine was forcing an ethnic, language and religious cleansing on its people in the two regions that petitioned for sovereignty. Read about this several years ago before all this stuff blew up and propaganda made stuff murky. Their current leader was put in place by a coup. The old regime was corrupt but that doesn't mean the new one is better. Ukrain was already in a civil war.

[capableweb]

Multiple actors can be horrible at the same time. The US is pretty horrible when it invades other countries, so is Russia.

As far as I know, Ukraine never had a military big enough to actually do any invasion of other countries, but if Ukraine was the size of the US with the military of the US, I wouldn't bet on them not being horrible when invading other countries.

[gumballindie]

Dont bother, it’s a waste of time. I’ve gotten used to the idea that some people are pure evil.

[cultofmetatron]

> But meddling in Africa will surely be made public at one point or another.

The french has most of africa on lockdown in that regard

[capableweb]

> defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries

Lol.

> Our grandparents told us stories about the russian army that many found hard to believe. And here we are proven that they were right all along.

This is true for any military power, read stories about areas under occupation from "freedom loving" or "non-freedom loving" (?) military groups, and you'll find it is equally horrible no matter what country the groups are from.

[tim333]

Standards change though. I mean a lot of developed nations did atrocities a century or two ago but Russia is a bit behind the times.

[capableweb]

I'm not sure if you count the US as developed or not, but in case you do, here are some highlights more recently than "a century or two ago":

- Haditha massacre

- Mahmudiyah rape and killings

- Abu Ghraib prison

- Enhanced interrogation techniques

- Sơn Thắng massacre

- Countless of others

All by US officials and/or military members.

[nickpp]

Obviously unfortunate, but tiny, isolated and unintended incidents. Handful of victims. Widely condemned by the society. Meanwhile, Russia is bombing countries and killing millions as a strategy of conquest, while most Russian are clapping approvingly.

[ElectricalUnion]

> I mean a lot of developed nations did atrocities a century or two ago

I wish those atrocities were just "a centrury ago" but they're in fact pretty recent.

[Brian_K_White]

Did I miss the memo where we invaded Canada or Mexico?

[gre]

I'm having a hard time parsing the parent quote, but if you're asking when the US invaded Canada and Mexico, here are some times.

Canda:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Invasion_of_Quebe...

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=War_of_1812&usesk...

Mexico:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_Mexic...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War

[daveguy]

You misquoted your source. Clever tactic.

[candiodari]

I think the problem is more along the lines of which particular Russians the Russian state allows to be considered ... and less changes in the individuals, either on the sending or receiving end of considerations.

[scrollaway]

Correlation is not causation. Russia’s political decisions have a great influence on both geopolitics AND the decisions of individual Russians on whether they stay in the country.

[imsointeresting]

That political opposition has a very high opinion of themselves.

Despite the gloomy predictions, Russia keeps doing fine on all dimensions.

War in Ukraine was not a good thing to happen, but Russia is not that badly managed, and the West is not that well managed.

[Paradigma11]

Last quarter: -45% oil and gas revenue. $29 Billion deficit. Ruble losing ~1/3 its value. GDP is still doing somewhat fine with that booming war economy. I guess all those white ladas have to be build somewhere.