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by capableweb 1152 days ago
Multiple actors can be horrible at the same time. The US is pretty horrible when it invades other countries, so is Russia.

As far as I know, Ukraine never had a military big enough to actually do any invasion of other countries, but if Ukraine was the size of the US with the military of the US, I wouldn't bet on them not being horrible when invading other countries.

3 comments

Multiple actors can be horrible (<0 ethics), but that doesn't mean that their absolute ethics value is irrelevant, or their relative horribleness to others.

Russia is systematically deporting Ukrainian children to Russia and integrating them into Russian families as a matter of state policy.

They're also indiscriminately bombing civilian targets weekly.

Even during the worst days of Fallujah, the US and UK didn't pull back and just arbitrarily pound the city to dust with standoff munitions out of spite.

Ukraine inherited a substantial amount of Soviet materiel after the collapse of the USSR, as well as the personnel trained in its use, however this quickly deteriorated as the support industrial base was in tatters (in Ukraine and Russia).

But in the early 90s they absolutely could have made a very credible invasion against most of their neighbors. [0,1]

Especially, say, the Cobasna ammunition depot in Moldova that's right on their border with up to 20,000 tons of Soviet munitions. [2]

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunn%E2%80%93Lugar_Cooperati...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasna_ammunition_depot

> but if Ukraine was the size of the US with the military of the US, I wouldn't bet on them not being horrible when invading other countries.

It didn’t stop them from taking part in the invasion of Iraq:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain...

It doesn't even compare. Countries unlucky enough to be invaded by Russia wished we were "conquered" by USA instead.
Uh, millions of dead Iraqis and Afghans are going to see your wish and say "sure, why not?"