[capableweb]

> defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries

Lol.

> Our grandparents told us stories about the russian army that many found hard to believe. And here we are proven that they were right all along.

This is true for any military power, read stories about areas under occupation from "freedom loving" or "non-freedom loving" (?) military groups, and you'll find it is equally horrible no matter what country the groups are from.

[tim333]

Standards change though. I mean a lot of developed nations did atrocities a century or two ago but Russia is a bit behind the times.

[capableweb]

I'm not sure if you count the US as developed or not, but in case you do, here are some highlights more recently than "a century or two ago":

- Haditha massacre

- Mahmudiyah rape and killings

- Abu Ghraib prison

- Enhanced interrogation techniques

- Sơn Thắng massacre

- Countless of others

All by US officials and/or military members.

[nickpp]

Obviously unfortunate, but tiny, isolated and unintended incidents. Handful of victims. Widely condemned by the society. Meanwhile, Russia is bombing countries and killing millions as a strategy of conquest, while most Russian are clapping approvingly.

[capableweb]

I'm not sure if "killing millions" is on purpose a exaggeration or not, but again, Russia is not alone in doing killing and bombing as a strategy (civilians be damned), the US is very familiar with that strategy. Do you think the initial night raid on Iraq was only targeting military targets? They were dropping random bombs on Baghdad. Multiple campaigns of Vietnam were just dropping a ton of bombs all over the country, no matter who it hit (Look up "Christmas bombings").

And lastly, don't forget about the only nuclear bombs that have been dropped have been dropped by the US military. That was indiscriminate killing at a scale never seen before, or since.

Look, Russia is horrible, the invasion is super fucked up, I wish they weren't do that and it'll take a long time before I'll ever forget about the horribleness that Russia put others through, as I've personally helped people being received from Ukraine into the country where I currently live. But that doesn't mean other military powers aren't as horrible as Russia, all of them are, it's their purpose so that's what they do.

[nickpp]

Oh, since you had to go all the way to the Second World War to find some arguments, here in Eastern Europe we remember too. We remember the grandparents gone to Siberia never to return. The hunger. The Red Army atrocities. The Nomenklatura they left behind. The cleansing of anybody with the "wrong" past or connections. The tinpot dictators they propped up. The “wonders” of communism - more hunger. Chernobyl and atomic war rhetoric. Paying with blood to get rid of them in the 90s. The corruption they left behind. Then Georgia. Polonium tea. Novichok. MH17. Syria. Ukraine.

No, millions is not an exaggeration. It’s an understatement. The only thing we reproach the USA: that they didn’t intervene. They were no angels, but there is no comparison. They are not the same and any attempt to muddle the waters and make them all seem the same is a desperate strategy of a falling imperialist power to throw the blame around. But we are immune to this, we grew up with the KGB monitoring jokes and pillow talk. We know this dirty game and here in Eastern Europe your tricks don’t work anymore. We have eyes to see and we know who are the good guys making the unfortunate occasional mistake and who are the pure evil ones.

[capableweb]

I'm glad it seems like we agree then, all military powers have abused their powers and hurt countless of others.

[ElectricalUnion]

The fact that most of Latin America was or is under non-democratic, rightwing governments is unfortunately not tiny, not isolated, totally intentional, with lots of victims and ignored by society.

[ElectricalUnion]

> I mean a lot of developed nations did atrocities a century or two ago

I wish those atrocities were just "a centrury ago" but they're in fact pretty recent.