[kyazawa]

I went from Vocaloid hater to fan in the span of this year. There are Japanese Vocaloid producers who are pushing the boundaries of pop music in a way that wouldn't be possible with a real singer. I've never come across anything like this music in the West. Definitely an acquired taste.

My Vocaloid song recommendation: Ungray Days by the producer Tsumiki. Tsumiki creates a sharp, aggressive sound that is disagreeable at first but really addictive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvF3Mwj5d4E

[IAmGraydon]

I'm sorry, but come on. Being a musician myself, I always try to keep an open mind and fully realize that not all music is supposed to give you the warm and fuzzies, but IMO nothing about that is interesting. It sounds like mathcore on fast forward with a chipmunk incomprehensibly chattering over it. No interesting harmonic structure, no interesting instrumentation or arrangement, rhythms straight stolen from other genres.

I'm being genuine when I say I'm interested to hear what about this moves you. I almost always get it even if I don't like it. This...I don't get it.

[kyazawa]

Certainly Ungray Days incorporates many rhythms, chord progressions, and other structures that are derivative of other works. I think this is true of all pop music though. These strike me as songwriting elements that have withstood the test of time because they work, so I don't necessarily view them negatively - to the contrary I feel that I need a certain number of these familiar elements for music to emotionally resonate with me. What I love about Tsumiki's music is these common pop structures combined with the fast tempo, weird voice, and busy instrumentation. There is chaos unfolding in the music but at the same time it is held together by classic structures that I recognize from older songs. It produces this chaotic yet focused energy that really gets me going. There's definitely nothing complex or groundbreaking in this song in terms of musical structure, but I haven't really come across other music with a similar "vibe", if you will (System of a Down may come closest for me.)

[syntheweave]

What I like about the song OP linked lies mostly in the legacy of how Vocaloid has been used in the past, e.g. "Disappearance of Hatsune Miku" [0] - there are certain textural elements that come with using Vocaloid that show up repeatedly, and a big one among them is "rapid chatter" effects. There are other ways of getting a similar result that don't sound the same, just like a session performance is probably going to sound different from a sampled instrument.

If you examine this stuff on the basis of harmonic structure, rhythm or arrangement you're basically going down the path of discounting most of electronic music, which is discretized into microgenres just on the basis of using a faster tempo, a different snare hit sound or an unusual mixing strategy. You have to really lean into timbre and texture to find what to appreciate.

[0] https://youtu.be/5qkTpJAhywg

[bearmode]

There are all sorts of styles that use vocaloid, it's not all the fast chipmunk stuff.

I'm also a musician, there's a lot I can enjoy with vocaloids and utaus.

Also fwiw, 'rhythms stolen from other genres' is a really weird comment for a musician to make.

[garbagetime]

None of the things you mentioned are necessary conditions for good music.

[Shared404]

It's definitely an acquired taste. I'm about 50/50 on vocaloid songs personally.

IMHO, the best gateway drug is this album/series this is from, though that may just be my personal nostalgia:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_lGrcOtzck

Another interesting vocaloid artist is SOOOO. However, anyone who has struggled with depression/self harm or has suffered abuse should not look them up if they think there is any possibility of being triggered by a mention of it (to the degree where I opened youtube in a private tab to find these links so that I wouldn't risk them being recommended while I'm in a bad headspace).

That being said, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUIelJYMO4U, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OOWWNFTguY, and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZ0I71Yawo encompass many of those feelings better than any other songs I've heard.

I personally like the chaotic quality that many vocaloid songs carry, and much like other somewhat experimental genre's you start to be able to follow more after listening to it over time.

[alexvoda]

There are certain limitations (which will get better in time) and it's also because it is a stylistic choice. Vocaloid certainly created it's stylistic niche due to early limitations and it is quite hard to find songs in other styles using voicebanks that are suitable for other styles.

EDIT: That being said Miku can also be amazing: https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23655091

The original in a more Miku style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqJNc9KVIZE

Or a more jazzy version but not as good as the first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwG9viczjhs

Compare to a human cover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEsyBaG-uNw

Here is a different example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIBdpzporFs

Of course the original version which is true to Vocaloid style is like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqps4anhz0Q

Even if Vocaloid is capable of much more than just Miku, Miku is immensely influential in the subculture.

Does it sound better live ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_xTet06SUo )? Or for a closer comparison with the first link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nepNc0Gk1E8 ? Sure, even though the Vocaloid style has its own charm. But you also do not need to be able to be able to sing in order to create a song with Vocaloid, so overall it's a great tool. If the song is good, someone will eventually cover it live.

Vocaloid allows many who want to compose but do not sing to participate in a remixing ecosystem. The collaborative nature of the community is an incredible strength.

[numlock86]

> sounds like mathcore on fast forward with a chipmunk incomprehensibly chattering over it

Such an excellent and on-point description for 99% of Vocaloid content.

[sithadmin]

Try listening to what passes as mainstream J-pop/J-rock. By Japanese standards, the vocaloid scene is actually pretty innovative.

[cmehdy]

I'm not up to date on J-pop/J-rock as of 2022 but things of past years like King Gnu's Hakujitsu or LiSa's First Take performance seem pretty decent as far as fairly popular music goes, and I'm sure I am missing a lot of stuff due to my musical interests having shifted a fair bit over the years.

[1] King Gnu - Hakujitsu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ony539T074w

[2] LiSa - Gurenge: https://youtu.be/MpYy6wwqxoo?t=45

[lstamour]

Hah. I was just about to post how that song earlier reminded me a bit of LiSA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CwkzK-F0Y00 or the Dorohedoro opening https://youtu.be/_nsNWzypHHg

[numpad0]

Innovative by mathcore(TIL this is a genre tbh) standards. Frankly I'd think GP is spot on, even though I love Vocaloid songs.

[azubinski]

You're right. And you are too soft in your wording. This sounds disgusting.

[YurgenJurgensen]

Please listen to Kiichi's "Francium" and tell me how much you hate it. My enjoyment of the song is greatly increased whenever I'm reminded that people dislike it.

[lsaferite]

> My enjoyment of the song is greatly increased whenever I'm reminded that people dislike it.

Why?

[azubinski]

There is a clear explanation for this. If you like something that others find disgusting, it allows you to consider yourself special. Entire subcultures stand on such a psychological focus. Everything has a place under heaven, and this is not good or bad.

[smaudet]

Good or bad, it does mean a general increase is "unique" behaviors which are taken for reasons besides "its good".

Diversity is important, but it has the drawback that compatability suffers. Monoculture is no better, but the tendency to dismiss what others find unique is a recognition of the general (biological) strategy, to conserve some status quo to build community.

General advice, don't have strong feelings about what others like - if they enjoy similar things fine if not their opinions are not worth much in the first place. At the same time, don't be afraid to enjoy what you like or find your tastes change over time, it's natural and not necessarily wrong.

Worst thing you can do to a young person, be old, and tell them you love everything they like - either they will think you a foolish old person or be devastated they aren't as hip as they thought they were...

[zoklet-enjoyer]

Yeah, that's pretty weird. I thought this stuff would be cool slowed down, maybe like some DJ Screw type stuff, but no.

[Philip-J-Fry]

I don't feel much from that one. But I will drop some of my favorites here in case anyone wants to discover them.

CHO-DARI- - Hatsune Miku https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU1HjAPvHG8

Mum / 雄之助 feat. flower https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjAcngUNiZ8

Hana to Nare / Yunosuke feat. KAFU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqKbuEDvaf8

IA - Conqueror https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3E5fb39xcs

[hatsunearu]

Wow, it's time for me to shine (see my username)

Twitter Land - STEAKA : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_qQEU_uGjw

Chimera - DECO*27 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6HKcNVbByc

Start Up! - Nariyama Ryo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFOV9NbkiJM

My name is - yanagamiyuki : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hj3BDehQGc

Dance with me - Osanzi : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n37kZTKbpSM

Highlight - KIRA : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYUNaQaDfa8

Ghost city tokyo - ayase : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWl5viCqGSc

Aqua illumination - PedestrianP : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F02fIei8gZU

These songs might be pedestrian (heh) to you, but there is so much niche and experimental all using the same voice--I find this highly fascinating.

The above songs I think give a pretty wide longitudinal view of Vocaloid music and the variety you can find in the fandom, from just Hatsune Miku as the vocal.

[jowsie]

> My name is - yanagamiyuki : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hj3BDehQGc

Never thought I'd find something this interesting from a HN thread, thanks!

[EarthLaunch]

> My name is - yanagamiyuki

This one is incredible! It's like rap+vocoder. I listened to all of these and loved it, thanks!

[bakabakabaka]

Also adding: a couple of imageboard originals that introduced me to vocaloid, not really a fan of most vocaloid music though. I still don't know what sub-genre these are -- the producers being anonymous doesn't help!

Luka(?) sounds pretty natural here, too, especially for 2009. I still remember thinking at first that it was sung by a human.

/jp/ themesong - anonymous ft. Luka, Len, Rin, Miku https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCSM4W8vk3Q

/jp/ themesong 2 - anonymous ft. Luka, Miku https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jp_themesong_2.webm

Edit: better audio on the first one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC2QrK4c3Qw

[ztgasdf]

Adding to this, I highly recommend works from nulut[0] and niki[1].

[0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sEptl-psU0

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgHbvHpT5ww

[capableweb]

All of the examples linked so far sounds highly artificial, so much that I'm guessing part of the charm for the listeners is the artificial and robotic sound/voicing, so the producers make it extra so in order to giver higher satisfaction.

Is there any examples of songs out there going the opposite way, trying to use something like Vocaloid to make the voice and singing as realistic and human-like as possible?

[YurgenJurgensen]

Ai Dee by Mitchie M is famously tagged [Miku & Luka sing like humans] on the original upload, so that was an explicit goal. Of course, it may not sound as impressive today as it did in 2012, but it's a reasonable attempt.

[Shared404]

You could make a case for SOOOO in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OOWWNFTguY. I don't know if it's intended to be as realistic/human sounding, but portions get close.

Most vocaloid definitely leans into the robotic quality.

[capableweb]

Which portions specifically? Gave it a listen and didn't find any parts that came close to not sounding robotic. Maybe in comparison to the other examples linked here, that one was better (but I'm unsure if that's actually true), but if that's state of the art, I'm not sure it really comes close to hitting the mark.

[Shared404]

Definitely not state of the art as far as being humanoid, that would be the top level link.

It's also not particularly humanoid, just closer than most vocaloids I've heard. Going off of my memory of the song, it's more the intonation then the timbre that stuck out as being more realistic.

I'm afraid I'm not willing to listen through the song currently, I usually dredge up some stuff I'm not wanting to deal with right now when I listen to this artists music.

[hatsunearu]

Vocaloid sounding robotic is kind of the appeal to me.

[fallat]

That IA one was nuts!

[nineteen999]

I've gone from being Vocaloid indifferent to a Vocaloid hater. Being the father of a 12 year girl who is obsessed with imaginary Japanese Vocaloid artists, I'm totally over the sound of it, although I agree the histrionics produced by these things can be fairly amazing to hear from time to time.

What I did find more interesting was the AI "sung" version of Joelene that was doing the rounds a few days ago, based on the voice of Holly Herndon:

  https://youtu.be/kPAEMUzDxuo

Interested to see where that goes, although I've got to admit, I'm a purist, and any type of digital vocalist is going to make me go "meh" sooner or later when compared to even a half decent human singer.

[smaudet]

There is definitely a element to high energy music which appeals to younger crowds. Same reason clubs tend to turn music up to levels capable of causing hearing damage.

I even exploited this fact as a way of staying awake a couple times while taking long road trips, as a stand in for caffeine.

Having high energy music is OK, allowing it to disturb the peace is not, time to teach the lessons about manners and being considerate, I suppose (buy a pair of headphones for her, limit her volume so she doesn't suffer early onset hearing loss).

No guarantee she won't turn out to be obnoxious as an adult, but that's the genetic lottery, I'm afraid.

[spywaregorilla]

Hmm interesting. I'm not familiar with this scene. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I feel like it feels kind of hollow. Like there's a lot of energy in it, but the vocaloid part just feels so emotionless. Maybe that's a cultural barrier though. Jpop and Kpop make me feel similarly and they're actually singing.

On the western side in a similar vein you've got hyper pop coming up from 100 gecs and laura les and what not. This kind of sound, hypertuned and almost as incomrehensible, sounds better to me. You do still get a vein of emotion. I love this sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=879ysA4h9r4

[makeitdouble]

On the cultural barrier part, vocaloids are nowhere touching the leaderboards even in Japan, so it is far from being a widely accepted thing yet.

To me the most interesting part to vocaloid is the ability for a sole producer to make a complete song without any external help. The vocal parts have always been a barrier, and while emotionless and still lacking in some areas, vocaloids are “good enough” to support a well produced song.

We’ve seen creators rise through the ranks through vocaloid, get experience and exposure, to then move to full professional production with a staff and an actual singer (who’s voice will also be heavily processed, but they have a ton of tuning experience at that point)

I also agree with the parent comment that some creators do benefit from the “mechanical” part. Throwing more links, Giga works with both singers and vocaloids and is pretty good at extracting the best of boths: https://youtube.com/c/GigaVideos

[aidenn0]

> To me the most interesting part to vocaloid is the ability for a sole producer to make a complete song without any external help. The vocal parts have always been a barrier, and while emotionless and still lacking in some areas, vocaloids are “good enough” to support a well produced song.

An early example of this was the debut album of Boston which was mostly recorded in Scholz's basement with him on every instrument except drums, then the tapes were mailed to LA for Delp to record vocals. I think it's rather funny in particular that Rock and Roll Band was written and mostly recorded before the band even existed.

[vallanceroad]

> I'm not sure how I feel about it. I feel like it feels kind of hollow. Like there's a lot of energy in it, but the vocaloid part just feels so emotionless.

In Japan, the term is "denpa" (電波ソング). Denpa music is intentionally strange as it is catchy, and hypnotic as it is awkward. There are many producers creating high-BPM electronic vocaloid music that is chaotic for effect. It is a bit more twee than the western sounds, as you mentioned, but it can be quite enjoyable if you're in the right mood.

More on denpa music: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denpa_song

Nanahira playlist, an example of a vocaloid character: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHIyvhJadXM

Explaining Vocaloid in 3 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GODXMGAMpVc

Also, I think you'd enjoy the Song Exploder podcast. If you haven't heard it already, check out the episode where 100 gecs break down how Money Machine was created:

https://songexploder.net/100-gecs

[jowsie]

Nanahira is a real person, not a vocaloid

[kokocute]

There's no overlap between denpa and vocaloid; I think you'd have a very difficult time having the vocaloid sing out of tune in a charming way.

ななひら (nanahira) is probably the most well known denpa artist, but she mostly sings normal songs now I think (and has a lovely voice doing so).

ココ is my favourite denpa artist https://youtu.be/2wl8Ofce8TE

[thaumasiotes]

> In Japan, the term is "denpa" (電波ソング)

In Japanese, there is no distinction between syllable-final [n] and syllable-final [m]. But in English there is. Traditional romanizations of Japanese will transcribe this as "dempa", for the obvious reasons that (a) that is what the Japanese spelling says; and (b) that is also how the word is pronounced.

I often see English speakers get very confused over exotic modern transcriptions such as "denba" or "senpai", believing there must be a reason they are written that way. But I'm not sure what that reason is supposed to be.

[naniwaduni]

Following the "spelling" surely suggests consistently spelling 電(でん) as "den", not alternating n/m depending on the environment? The Japanese don't write different んs for 電波(でんぱ)・電流(でんりゅう)・電話(でんわ).

Attempting to approximate pronunciation is a valid theory of transcription, but one which also ought to prescribe that 電気(でんき) be transcribed as dengki; English is not much less discerning of syllable-final [n] vs [ŋ] as it is vs [m]. This is not a position I've ever seen anyone defend in earnest, though.

(Romanization for anglophone is a bit of a lost cause anyway, since we're going to fuck up the vowels no matter what you do.)

[thaumasiotes]

> Attempting to approximate pronunciation is a valid theory of transcription, but one which also ought to prescribe that 電気(でんき) be transcribed as dengki; English is not much less discerning of syllable-final [n] vs [ŋ] as it is vs [m].

That is blatantly incorrect. English converts syllable-final [n] to [ŋ] when followed by a velar exactly the same way Japanese does, and English spelling reflects that. Consider the English words "think", "clunky", or "handkerchief".

[naniwaduni]

Sure, now show us lack of assimilation to a subsequent bilabial (in a context where /nk/ does assimilate), which is what Japanese does and that you're implying English does differently (it doesn't). English has it baked in so deeply that most would-be /np/s are already spelled <mp>, which muddies the waters a bit, but these past few days have given us plenty of clips of people pronouncing "government", haven't they?

[tuanx5]

+1 for 100 gecs; their sound is a very distinct aural palate cleanser that I consistently enjoy. See also Charli XCX's How I'm Feeling Now album and midwxst's SUMMER03 EP

[jancsika]

It's a random-walk of blues riffs over a stock diatonic chord progression with a slow (and predictable) harmonic rhythm.

The only conceivable surprise is a crude chromatic key change to the minor version of the raised mediant.

You'd think the precision of those dynamic envelopes and timbral games would push the artist to venture out and explore that mediant relationship to create quicker and more jarring harmonic progressions and modulations. But no-- it turns out to be less inventive than the mediant chains emanating from, say, Joni Mitchell and her acoustic guitar over fifty years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q2jiRUVLgI

(I find some of the lyrics apt, too.)

Compared to the cookie-cutter harmony and melody of the music you linked, even Mitchell's augmented triad in the melody at the end of the chorus sounds like the musical equivalent of solving fast homomorphic encryption.

It's the the audio tech that is on display in the music you linked, so every other musical consideration shifts to the background to illuminate that tech. I get that. But holy shit why does that baseline have to be stuck in the fucking 1650s? While I love the "electrified Vivaldi" hack that is heavy metal from the late 70s/early 80s (Master of Puppets et al), I question whether we really need more than one musical genre based on that parlor trick.

It would be like every stand up comedian ending their set with increasingly theatrical pyrotechnic pull-my-finger jokes. I could laugh my ass off at the absurdity for a year, maybe two. But forever?

[tuesgloomsday]

It’s possible you’re stuck on the first slope of the dunning kruger graph.

My (possibly wrong) impression of your comment is that you seem to have made the mistake of associating complexity with quality in music which is extremely common in those who’ve just started looking into music theory.

Most music needs only the smallest dash of novelty to achieve the perfect mix of the new and familiar to its target audience. If you start attempting to evaluate popular music on what about it is inventive or new, you’re likely to find yourself unable to appreciate most of what people are enjoying and cut yourself off from loving a broad spectrum of musical expression.

You might also find yourself unable to express why you enjoy the music you do like in a way that doesn’t come across as if you’re arguing an objective scientific point——an approach which might undercut your argument by making you unintentionally come across as someone who has just learned a lot of fancy theory jargon and is eager for an excuse to wield it.

[bambax]

I'm not sure I understand what Vocaloid does? Does it generate vocal parts "from scratch" / just from lyrics? Or is it more like a vocoder?

The track you reference sounds like chipmunks sped up 2x; it's not unpleasant to listen to, and fun, but I feel it could be made just like that (record at 80bpm, high pass filter, maybe transpose 1 octave, and speed up to 180), no "AI" involved.

[redwall_hp]

It's an instrument: you have a piano roll interface, draw in your melody like editing MIDI in a DAW, and add lyrics to each note (usually with some manual phoneme fine-tuning), and it outputs a stream of vocal audio.

Human Japanese singers, especially women, tend to operate in a higher octave range than what is common in the west. It's slightly culturally insensitive to take shots at vocal pitch when talking about J-Pop. Pitch is largely a social/cultural construct, and Japan generally leans into the idea of higher pitch -> polite or cute and lower pitch -> aggressive or rude. (e.g. you raise your pitch when talking to your boss, and drop it to express your disgust with someone.) Just putting that out there, not trying to be accusatory or anything. It's just always good to keep in mind that western cultural norms are hardly universal.

[bambax]

Ah, thanks for the heads up!

For the record, I was responding to the gp saying

> ... pushing the boundaries of pop music in a way that wouldn't be possible with a real singer

=> I felt it was possible to do what the example does by singing slowly and speeding it up afterwards.

[recursive]

The chipmunk effect isn't even necessarily part of it. Most vocaloid music is in a more "normal" range.

It's a synthesizer. It's an alternative to human singers. I can imagine someone seeing a digital piano for the first time. "I'm not sure what it even does. I could just use an acoustic piano. It sounds the same."

[bambax]

Yeah fair enough. I have no problem with Vocaloid -- but I do have a problem with the over the top marketing copy (sorry if that was unclear).

[sithadmin]

As for the chipmunk sound, it's not unusual for female j-pop vocalists to operate one or two octaves higher than the unfamiliar western ear would generally consider pleasant.

There's also plenty of music directly derivative of the vocaloid scene that maintains a similar aesthetic with 'organic' vocalists and dispenses with some of the awkwardness of vocaloid-oriented compositions. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjJMIWyl_l4

[makeitdouble]

A slightly more natural sounding track for reference: https://youtu.be/9vyIPWBeRes

This one if an official track for a popular vocaloid rythm game.

Also, at this point the “chipmunk” sound is part of the brand and will be kept to some extent for tracks labelled as vocaloids (it’s kind of a market on its own)

[Arnavion]

It generates audio from phonetic lyrics.

[hatsunearu]

you write down phonemes on a DAW, and it synthesizes the voice for you. you also put down vibrato or other modifiers like you would for most other instruments.

the audio is generated from a voicebank that is a database of prepared phonemes recorded from a voice actor. some packages come with multiple variants of voicebanks, like you could have a "soft" voice and a "vivid" voice.

[YurgenJurgensen]

Look at the upload date on the video. It's 2 years old. No AI was involved, as that's being touted as a new feature of V6.

[empressplay]

This is a geeky song I did in English using Vocaloid singers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2k8EOBL75o

Not great, not terrible.

[oidar]

Ungray Days slightly reminds me of oneohtrix point never.

[fjallstrom]

Yeah like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UztCDH2xuQ

[oidar]

This is such an excellent album.

[timoth3y]

Thanks for turning me on to that.

It's definitely not my thing, but Tsumiki's use of vocals is interesting and well executed.

[GoblinSlayer]

IME addictive music is the worst.

[fullstop]

It gives me Splatoon vibes.

[knaekhoved]

The rapper/producer Deko has been doing some very interesting stuff with adding vocaloid synth characters to rap/hyperpop music. He has two vocaloid "characters", Lil Yammeii and Lil Hard Drive. Most vocaloid rap I listen to is terrible but this stuff is super well produced. He'll even do things like add breathing noises to the vocaloid tracks, which improves the sound a lot. https://youtu.be/usRDtHjYKzU

He also has some funny parodical bits he does, like rapping about having a lot of money/jewels/etc and then the vocaloid characters rap about having a lot of RAM.

[Semaphor]

> disagreeable at first but really addictive.

Nope, certainly stays disagreeable to me. I wonder what makes people enjoy weird stuff in so many different ways. I might not like this, but I enjoy white noise artist Merzbow [0] or breakcore from Drumcorps [1]

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=przphi3RjeE

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXEzn43VITM

[antiterra]

I think people who have never heard Merzbow are likely going to misunderstand your post as being dismissive rather than understanding of either opinion.

As a small form of resistance to the surveillance state I partake in, I have taught kids to ask any nearby personal assistants to play woodpecker #2 and they find it hilarious.