[3bproblem]

If anyone ever learns how to actually stop comparing themselves to others I'd love to hear it. Many of the most well-adjusted, pleasant people that I know still compare themselves to others naturally, it feels like a subconscious behavior almost at the level of breathing or getting hungry. (I liked the article though)

[baxtr]

When I'm in comparing mode, I use two "hacks":

1. If you compare yourself and envy someone, consider what you specifically envy. Then consider whether you are willing to change EVERYTHING with that person to get that one thing. Their parents, their childhood, their spouse, and so on. I always say no and move on.

2. Instead of comparing yourself upwards, compare yourself downwards. We frequently envy people who are more successful, wealthy, intelligent, and so on. But how many people envy you? How many people are actually less successful, less wealthy, or less intelligent? Most of the time it helps to calm me down.

[crackercrews]

Regarding #1:

As a young man, I was out for a bike ride when a man drove past me in a very expensive Mercedes coupe. My first thought was that I would love to be in his shoes, and what an amazing life he must have.

My next thought was that a man of his age would probably see a young man like me out for a weekend bike ride and wistfully think of his own youth. Not just the vigor of youth but also the lack of responsibilities.

[crhulls]

This makes me think of the adage:

-When you are young you have energy and time but no money -When you are an adult you have money and energy but no time -When you are old you have time and money but no energy

Obviously the answer is to embrace what you have in the moment but easier said than done.

[nuancebydefault]

Super nice trilogy, above thread!!!

[NhanH]

There is a saying in Vietnamese roughly translated to “Looking upwards, I’m worse than everyone. Looking downwards, everyone is worse than me.”

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/trông_lên_thì_chẳng_bằng_ai...

[danenania]

Can't find a link, but there have been some studies on students and schools that show the students near the top of their class in not-so-great schools tend to be more successful than kids who are below average in elite schools, even if the latter have higher test scores. It really shows you the power of comparison and the importance of choosing the right pond for the size of fish you are.

[niemal_dev]

And thus it is very wise to be grounded to the reality, however that is possible. Everyone is worse than me == superiority. Everyone is better than me == inferiority. Everyone does what they can and I should focus on what I can also, believing in myself and investing in my own growth == freedom.

[danenania]

While it's pretty morbid, another thing to consider is that whatever thing that person has that you want, there have been countless people who had copious amounts of that thing and were still so depressed that they killed themselves. That includes plenty of people who were the envy of everyone around them.

It's a good reminder that there are no silver bullets when it comes to happiness and a meaningful life. Beyond meeting basic needs, it's much more about being happy with what you have than trying to obtain something that you don't.

[antisthenes]

> another thing to consider is that whatever thing that person has that you want, there have been countless people who had copious amounts of that thing and were still so depressed that they killed themselves.

I find this lazy argument completely unconvincing and reject it entirely.

Very rarely would something like 2x total comp change the way someone lives, and if suddenly stumbling into a double income radically changes your life to the point where you become depressed, then that's kind of on you. Get therapy (you can actually afford it now), trade your money for more free time, seek meaning, be more generous and altruistic - acquire more friends, help others.

> Beyond meeting basic needs, it's much more about being happy with what you have

That sounds nice on paper, until you realize you've lived a few decades unable to afford anything beyond basic needs. I know this is HN, so 90% of people here are in an income bubble, but please try to imagine for a split second how miserable life is if you can't afford hobbies, healthcare, stable housing, or a companion pet.

[danenania]

"Get therapy (you can actually afford it now), trade your money for more free time, seek meaning, be more generous and altruistic - acquire more friends, help others."

I don't dispute that people who do these things would tend to be happier on average, and I agree they are all good ideas, but we can also conclusively say they aren't silver bullets, since there are many people who do all those things but still end up finding their lives so intolerable that they kill themselves.

"try to imagine for a split second how miserable life is if you can't afford hobbies, healthcare, stable housing, or a companion pet"

I'd put healthcare and stable housing in the basic needs bucket, though of course they both exist on a spectrum.

And again, that's my point. There are countless people who have enough money that they have no financial worries whatsoever and yet are still miserable, while there are others with a modest income who feel content. If you are unhappy and feel that making more money will fix it, and you're not struggling with basic needs, this should indicate that at the very least, there's no guarantee it will be a solution to your unhappiness.

[antisthenes]

I understand your point, and like I already said, it's a lazy argument that boils down to "rich people sometimes have it hard too".

Sure, yes, that happens. But on average they have the resources to deal with it, so bringing it up every time is tired, lazy and disrespectful to those who are struggling and have no safety network.

You're free to think otherwise.

[danenania]

It obviously doesn't boil down to that. It doesn't seem to me that you actually read and understood what I wrote (either that or you're deliberately mischaracterizing for whatever reason), so it's a bit ironic for you to talk about lazy arguments.

[yodsanklai]

I think most of the time, comparing doesn't mean envying. It's often a feeling of being inadequate, or feeling to not meet expectations other people put on us.

[tjs8rj]

What exactly is the issue with comparing oneself to others?

I came from a less fortunate background in some ways, and LinkedIn has been a godsend for me to compare myself to others and get to where I want to be: I just look people up who I’m really impressed by, see their history and combined with other research I find the patterns that got them where they are, and then develop goals for myself to surpass them. It’s almost like they’re my mentor and don’t even know it.

I wouldn’t say I’m wildly successful now, but any time I encounter someone noticeably “more successful” along the axes I care about, there’s a moment of envy that quickly turns into “what can I learn from this person to accomplish that and surpass them”? I’m way more accomplished than I was even just a year ago, and I find myself saying that every year. I’ve sold businesses, lead teams, received awards, and have accomplished things that just a few years ago seemed like a pinnacle of success because of this mindset.

Comparing oneself to others is so powerful, especially now the availability of peoples background info basically makes it a labeled dataset for learning how to become “successful” in whatever way you define it. I think that’s always been the point of it biologically: if you’re worried you’re falling behind - fix it! The issue is the same as calorie counting: there’s a healthy way to do it and an unhealthy way. Most people compare themselves to others in the unhealthy way, so it’s unproductive and just anxiety-inducing. The healthy way uses that low level anxiety as a catalyst for action.

[unity1001]

> What exactly is the issue with comparing oneself to others?

Because the society's standards are capricious, and they change almost every decade. They can even suddenly change in a single year. What is 'the place to be' a yesterday could be a place that people don't want to be tomorrow. What's 'cool' yesterday can be 'lame' tomorrow. If one builds his or her life on the society's changing perspective, he or she can easily end up unhappy in a decade or two, being in a place and situation which does not merit the effor that went into it to get it and keep it.

The ideal is going in the direction which YOU want to go. Where YOU want to be. That's where all those 'inner drive' talk comes from. And they are right - in 10-20 years, all the people who had shaped the standards of the current society as adults or parents will be gone. The standards and perspectives will change. It happens every ~20 years. And when that happens, its better to have that 20 years lived by your own standards and drives than the ever-shifting societal standards.

[marginalia_nu]

I don't think these two things are mutually exclusive. It's fully possible someone else is living a life that is what I want my life to be, not because social standards have forced anyone to do anything, but because they've accomplished (through intrinsic motivation) what I also set out to accomplish (through intrinsic motivation).

[unity1001]

> It's fully possible someone else is living a life that is what I want my life to be

Its fully possible, but its also statistically improbable for enough number of people to be doing that, and even more improbable for it being a common aspiration in the society. The aspirations and standards of the society generally follow the lines of money and a hip/desirable status at any given time according to the dominant fad.

[hnfong]

I think what you're saying is "most people blindly follow trends", which might be true. But it seems totally orthogonal to whether somebody is comparing themselves to others because they are trend followers or not. Your argument basically is "but it's quite likely a random person is a trend follower anyway", but that's not a good reason to tell people to avoid compare themselves to others. Rather it's a good reason to tell people not to follow fads...

[unity1001]

> I think what you're saying is "most people blindly follow trends"

More than that. Society, especially parents, relatives and peer groups keep pressure on the individuals to follow the 'desirable' trends.

> "but it's quite likely a random person is a trend follower anyway"

Yes. That's quite likely. Because the general sample set available to the public for making comparisons, generally end up people who have followed the trends. Be it among the relatives, be it from the sample set at Linked in. You will scarcely find people saying 'I became a poet and Im happy' or "I followed my dream of becoming an oil rig worker instead of a lawyer". The public, vocal feedback will tend to follow the society's requirements.

[marginalia_nu]

I'm not sure I follow why that would be. Surely most people, even when intrinsically motivated, would be expected to gravitate toward certain common interests that are appealing to human beings at large.

You're more likely to find a human interested in learning to play the guitar than staring intently at a squirrel out the window for hours (although a a cat might be interested in that).

[unity1001]

> would be expected to gravitate toward certain common interests that are appealing to human beings at large.

They do. But these rarely end up being the jobs that the society respects and recommends. Things may change in near future with new ways of working and making a living. But currently, what you really want to do and what society things to be 'good' will likely not overlap.

[cosmojg]

> there’s a moment of envy that quickly turns into “what can I learn from this person to accomplish that and surpass them”?

Therein lies the rub. Many have not developed this skill, and it isn't taught anywhere. In American culture, when a person verbally relates or otherwise expresses their negative emotions experienced as a result of comparing themselves with others, most other people will respond with some variation of "don't worry about it," whether that's friendly reassurance that their worth lies elsewhere or a bit of patronizing admonishment for immaturely keeping up with the Joneses in the first place. Rarely are people handed a guide to using those feelings constructively.

But yeah, learning to do so can get you quite far in life.

[mym1990]

I don't think there is an issue with it when done in moderation, but with social media it has become more wanting an end result without understanding the process or the risks involved with getting there. If studying others and using that knowledge to move up in the world is working for you and gives you fulfillment, I think that is a great thing.

[JohnFen]

> I just look people up who I’m really impressed by, see their history and combined with other research I find the patterns that got them where they are, and then develop goals for myself to surpass them.

I suppose that's a kind of "comparing yourself to others", but I think it's more accurate to say that's "learning from others" rather than comparing.

You are not assessing your worth based on the perceived worth of others. Your are spotting people who have accomplished things similar to what you want to accomplish and seeing how they got there.

Two entirely different things.

[xapata]

Not all success has deterministic causes.

[JohnFen]

People hate to admit this, but it's true -- success requires a large amount of pure, dumb luck.

That's not to say intelligent effort isn't necessary -- it is -- but it's not sufficient.

[bheadmaster]

One way is to reject the idea of free will as an absolute. Every effect has a cause, and the causality chains extend from the beginning of time (assuming there is such a thing). Humans are part of nature, and the causality chains also control each and every human's actions and destiny.

It's somewhat related to the Nietzsche's concept of Amor Fati:

    "My formula for greatness in a human being is amor fati: that one wants nothing to be different, not forward, not backward, not in all eternity. Not merely bear what is necessary, still less conceal it - all idealism is mendacity in the face of what is necessary - but love it."

[sanitycheck]

This is what I believe, but people who think free will exists seem generally happier so I don't try to convince anyone.

[bheadmaster]

Maybe.

But perhaps the cause-effect relationship is inverted - perhaps generally happier people tend to think free will exists, because they never had a reason to doubt it? In contrast, people who are generally unhappier are the ones who are thinking about topics such as free will, determinism, etc. to try to make sense of the world. Sometimes it works, and makes them less unhappy - but they had to be unhappy in the first place to start thinking about it.

[JohnFen]

Free will may or may not exist. But believing in free will is incredibly useful.

[monting]

I'd say practicing non-dualism à la Zen Buddhism helps a lot. In short it helps see through preconceived (or any form of) notions, such that one doesn't become attached, including to the notion of becoming unattached itself.

It points outs that the separation of our individual self from others can be seen as illusory, that we're all deeply connected. Sure my left arm is weaker than my right, but that doesn't make it "less important", and in fact thinking in such a way is preposterous. But might be useful in another context such as left/right balance for fitness.

[mvaliente2001]

I've been reading The Courage To Be Disliked” about Adler's theories, and it's very interesting. According to him, we all have feelings of inferiority. It's normal and could even be healthy, it'll help us to improve. What's negative is the inferiority complex: when we internalise our feelings of inferiority and use them as an excuse to avoid changing.

The idea of feelings of inferiority being a normal part of living is freeing, it helps to accept them.

[AlwaysRock]

Eh. It depends on the context for me. I try to only compare me to me. An easy way to do that is to compare me to a ~6 month version of me. I started a job about 6 months ago. Comparing today me to that previous me is straightforward. I knew little about React when starting this job. Now I've shipped multiple react projects.

I started doing bjj about 6 months ago. Its obvious to me that if I was wrestling against myself from 6 months ago it would be easy to beat myself.

This becomes harder as you have more experience in something, comparing your 5.6 years of exp to your 5 years is less obvious than 6 month and 0 months, but its still possible if you are tracking your achievements.

I have a "hype" doc where I write down my accomplishments every three weeks. Sometimes there are many. Sometimes there are only 1 or 2 things to note.

Do I still feel very silly and incompetent when pairing with a significantly more senior engineer? Do I still get smashed by more experienced grapplers? Sure. But I dont have to dwell on it because I know I'm making progress of my own.

[mym1990]

I think there is a healthy way and an unhealthy way to go about it. Suppressing the urge to compare ourselves to others seems like it would be counterproductive and energy intensive. Some people take it a step further though and use others as a hard reference point for themselves. The issue I see with this is that we pretty much never know what is going on with someone else past a surface level, and this behavior can mute our individualistic strengths as well.

This isn't to say that having a reference point is not a good thing to have, role models can be a great thing. It is not difficult to imagine the best and worst version of yourself, and just use that as a spectrum for moving through life, imo.

[Blackstone4]

My view is that we are human and comparison is a subconscious activity like you said. I feel one can become aware of when one is comparing and walk back from it. Being pleased for others people success is helpful here.

[caloique]

Agree, I think it is impossible not to compare with others. I don't think you always have to "walk back from it", sometimes is good to achieve your goals, the challenge is doing it in a healthy way.

[hatware]

In my experience it is the ego that wants to compare. As I've gotten older I've noticed the comparisons have less jealousy and confusion, more envy and understanding of the complexity.

[shishy]

I think rather than focusing on "not comparing myself" to others in general I make sure I don't obsess over it when I do... it's kind of inevitable and not something I can perfectly stop doing, but I can certainly control not letting those thoughts overrun everything else I have going on.

[sedeki]

Reminds me of French philosopher René Girard's (whom Peter Thiel talks much about) mimetic theory:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimetic_theory

[anon_123g987]

Compare yourself to others every time you want, but always remember this Venn diagram: https://i.imgur.com/pVoiW0l.png.

[jensneuse]

How does a busy entrepreneur have time to compare themselves to others?

[crhulls]

I am sure there is some strong correlation between drive, entrepreneurial success, an always-on churning mind, and insomnia. And lying in bed awake at night is a hard time to choose your own thoughts - it just happens.

[throwaway1851]

I think the most important thing is to recognize that you can’t objectively assess others and you can’t objectively assess yourself if it’s something you care about. You may find yourself comparing anyway, but knowing that your “findings” have the credibility of an Elon Musk tweet helps to lower the stakes.