Shameless plus one, I’ve been with my wife for 10 years - when we’re both happy as individuals were happy as a couple. Sometimes people just need to do the hard work of finding happiness on their own. Someone else can’t make you feel happy with your career.
partners should support each other, especially through trying times. but your happiness should not only depend on your partner. if it does then any problem in the relationship can quickly spiral into something unfixable.
on the other hand, being individually happy is not enough. if your partnership does not add anything to your happiness then you are more like roommates.
you are fortunate until now, but i would not rely on being able to keep that going without your partners help. you say you are happy as a couple when you are happy individually, but there is more to a relationship than just your individual happiness.
i would investigate how your relationship is really doing. is your wife as happy as you are? how would you deal with difficult times as a couple? what might happen if your work changed and you no longer feel happy there?
I've semi-jokingly referred to my relationship as 'like roommates'. We've discussed at length that 'this time in our lives' is the busiest we've ever been with early teen kids playing various sports, playing musical instruments, having braces, dealing with hormones and their personalities developing into 'who they're going to be as adults', fuck it's a lot.
I just had a couple of days off sick, and it was like a fucking holiday.
Unsolicited advice: If your long term relationship hasn't yet reached 'pre- and early-teen kids', then make sure you're ready for it. Get your house in order, because it's going to feel like your life and dreams are on pause for five to ten years whilst you develop the best little adults you possibly can. And you will need each other to lean on for the duration.
As in, when children are born, the first 6 months are a nightmare, the next ~3 years are extremely tough, then as they get more independent and grown that's when it gets good? That 'pre- and early-teen' is supposed to be the best part, when you can more-or-less deal with them like with adults and they are fairly independent?
if that is what you expect, then our kids were angels. really we had no trouble with them. they slept pretty well very early, maybe because they slept in our bed so feeding them at night was easy. we had a nanny for help, but i was working from home so i could spend a lot of time with them. we'll see how it will be when they are older. so far it's going well though.
i think what makes kids tough to deal with is not accepting their behavior as it is. when you want them to be a certain way, but you don't know how to get them to be that way. even when i see problematic kids portrayed on tv many times i feel that the kids don't have a problem, but it's the parents who can't deal with it. they don't take the kids seriously and don't respect them or consider their needs. with that attitude, kids will be difficult at any age.
Fuck my kids can be annoying. They're so much like their dad.
;)
I think there's a "know thyself" problem for those who have difficulty with their kids. They'll behave like you, and if you're not happy with yourself then you won't be happy with them.
Both of mine are so often overtly like me I often ask my wife: when are YOU having kids?
As reply to you and anonymousDan: I love it, and I may be overstating it to some extent. I love my kids and watching them grow but, because they're like me, the effort required to explain things is increased because their perspectives require answers with a level of detail that makes them understand, because with 'the little things' understanding is a prerequisite of compliance. Scaring them with loud angry voice isn't enough if your argument isn't solid. My son is unbelievably good at pointing out my hypocrisies and logical flaws, god it's so annoying and beautifully satisfyingly fulfilling all at once.
My wife and I both work, our weekly routine is as follows:
* Monday: daughter piano lesson 4:30-5pm, son soccer practise 7-8:30pm
* Tuesday: daughter dance 6pm-8:30pm
* Wednesday: son soccer practise, until his coach went to play a comp he was getting tennis coaching 5-5:30
* Thursday: rest day, although sons tennis team get together for a hit most evenings, dads also play
* Friday: son tennis comp 6-8pm, daughter dance practise 6-8:30pm, I take my niece roller skating 7:30-9:30pm
* Saturday: Dance comp season there are dance competitions every third week or so, when there's no competition they do 'teams' dance practise, I play tennis comp 1-4:30pm
* Sunday: son soccer game
I try to fit in four or five stretches, weights, exercise sessions per week as well to slow the decline of age.
So, yeah, I fit in playing tennis and roller skating weekly, so I get to scratch those itches, and I have time to tinker with personal projects, and watch movies and shows, but they always feel like 'slices' of time. My job isn't hugely demanding, by my wife's is, plus she does the cooking (because she's the picky one, says I).
But there's also managing screen time, bed times (they're both night owls), chores, homework, school drop offs and pickups, their friends, our friends (!), taxes, banking, finances, physio appointments, car servicing, fixing the goddam toilet and a leaky tap, and I'll fix the WiFi in a minute, and funerals, and birthday parties (they're much less of a big deal then when the kids are under 10, glad that stage has passed).
We've got a great network of family support without which we'd probably have to cut some activities or require more flexible working arrangements. We're using the whole fucking village (but we're also contributing).
I wouldn't have it any other way, and I wouldn't have thought I could cope with all of that if I wasn't in the middle of coping with it.
BUT you need to support you partner and you partner needs to support you.
And I'm totally aware that in the (near?) future we're going to need to support our kids with theirs, and wouldn't you know it: I think I'm kinda looking forward to that.
Considering how grateful OP is for the advice shared by the community here previously, my impression is they're open to the continued advice. It's hardly unsolicited. I don't consider it rude when people are trying to be genuinely helpful. If you consider that rude you might be overly sensitive yourself and missing the bigger context.
It's not happening here, but: I really really don't understand people who get offended by "unsolicited" advice. Chances are it's coming from a place of honest care and concern. Just ignore it if it doesn't pertain to you. When you get a strong reaction from someone in response to unsolicited advice, I find more often than not it's actually striking a chord and probably more needed than the person realizes. I'd want that feedback whether I solicited it or not, personally.
In not especially offended, but it does rub me the wrong way when people make negative assumptions about others, then offer their advice.
To me it comes off as condescension, not actually help. If they wanted to help or cared, they would seek to understand first. Unsolicited and more importantly uninformed advice shows a disregard for the recipient.
It reminds me of legal advice threads where people give terrible advice because they are too busy speaking to even read the original post.
Re-read Lumost post, and then em-bee's unsolicited diagnosis and advice. They are absolutely making assumptions and suggesting a narrative about an uncollaborative and deficient marriage.
At the end of the day, people are free to post what they want, but having some community standards is what prevents things from devolving into rabble and insults.
For my part, I want to use that freedom to tell people that it is unproductive and generally considered rude to make unsolicited, uncharitable, and uninformed assumptions about the marriages of others. Moreso, because I think are giving out factually bad advice.
> For my part, I want to use that freedom to tell people that it is unproductive and generally considered rude to make unsolicited, uncharitable, and uninformed assumptions about the marriages of others. Moreso, because I think are giving out factually bad advice.
Perhaps you should respond to the factually bad parts, because that's actually debatable. Leading with "that's rude" is a personal sentiment and all it takes to rebut that is a "no, it's really not".
that's a very good point. something to consider when writing a comment. especially in a forum like this where it is difficult to interpret the intent of a message, or the attitude of the writer. i certainly hope that my comments aren't seen as being judgemental, but i can't be sure.
Consciously off-topic: Posting on an open forum invites it.
The comment to which you're replying makes some good points and isn't finger-pointy, and is more suggestive of potential gaps to fill. Any long-term relationship requires hard work, and so advice is often a helpful reminder of this, whether the advice is good or not it can trigger a re-evaluation of perspective; a view from the outside of what may have become taken for granted from the inside.
Doing a thing „A“ is not the same as not doing a thing „B“ that looks like the opposite of A. E.g.: not healing your broken leg is very different from breaking your leg.
>Sometimes people just need to do the hard work of finding happiness on their own.
I mean.. it's not like most people haven't tried that. Things are just more complicated than that in real life, and not all problems can be fixed. Consider perhaps you guys are lucky to not have any such issues and are therefore both able to find happiness on your own
it shouldn't have to be normal. ideally your partner is supporting you especially in times like this. you should be able to share with your wife what OP shared with HN. if he had, the result might have been to not only get a new job but get a job in a different location, with a new, bigger house. it's more work to pull that off, and not something they could have done while the relationship is sour, but possible if they work together.
big life decisions should never be made alone. OP came here to help make his decision, which is better than deciding all by himself but consulting with his wife would have been better still.
You’re getting shit on for no good reason. It’s like people here have never been in a problematic relationship or had to work through things with their partners. I really hope I never have to be or deal with their partners.
You’re right. Ideally your partner should support you. You also shouldn’t be thinking of divorcing your wife because of your job - that sounds ridiculous and like your wife is actually a net drain to your life. (Been there…) That said - it shouldn’t be that way. If the wife is being terrible then they need to shape up and not be terrible. Partners should add value to your life and not drain it. Together you should be greater than the sum of your parts. Even when you’re both struggling - you should find comfort in that you’re both not alone in your struggle.
As well - this idea that you should be atomically happy and there should be no outside influences on your well being is just an asinine juvenile belief. Do we expect babies to not cry out for their mother? Why is it that when you’re desiring something you somehow need to become the Buddha? The fuck is wrong with people. Sometimes you just need a hug and some support from someone in your life who loves you and is willing to be there for you. You don’t need to be some mythical stoic creature who cares about nothing in this world like you’re a nihilist.
I legit wonder if maybe some of you are just super neurodivergent and need to tag yourselves as such before making such wild ass statements about how to interact with other people. Fucking HN.
> Everyone on HN and reddit has to be the most right and be unnecessarily argumentative. And that includes you and me. It’s a compulsion.
This is exactly why I think social media is cancerous, it normalizes that conversations devolve into a contentious battle of words for dopamine feedback loops. It's pretty pathetic that you think that is how people interact in the real World, perhaps you should interact with people in real life more often to address you 'compulsion' rather than assert your need to do so in every interaction.
I disagree only half ironically. In some ways, we are living through a golden age of debate. It just isn't well distributed. The problem is that it is difficult to maintain Community standards and incentives for what would legitimately be considered debate (EG listening, addressing the other person's point and maintaining good faith and civility.) There is a parallel and greater growth of online argument which many people conflate with debate. This is fed by online point systems and engagement. It is the latter that is bleeding over into the real world and causing problems.
> I legit wonder if maybe some of you are just super neurodivergent and need to tag yourselves as such before making such wild ass statements about how to interact with other people. Fucking HN.
I've come to this realization given how prevalent tech is with people with ADHD and Autism pretty early on and since HN is mainly tech people it's quite common to see this type of response. I used to think it was most trying to live up to some edgelord persona they've built up online but after going from idealism based startup World and stepping into the megacorp level tech worker I think it really is clear that it's the former given how they interact with people and can't read social cues at all and feel the need to interject with outlandish conclusions with seemingly no tact or discretion.
The prevalence of this issue is spoken openly by people who are afflicted but have developed coping mechanisms, but I fear that is the exception not the norm as most just insulate themselves further rather than ever address them.
As for OP, I've been in demanding relationships with partners that seem to have a need to want to make it clear to their friends/family that they're on course to marry up more than have a fulfilling relationship, and it was incredibly draining albeit an amazing learning experiences so I'm glad they never went beyond the girlfriend level for that reason. I've seen some pretty stark reactions to people in long term relationships (mainly boomer age) who 'made those work' during COVID which re-enforced the fact that most people were in what were marriages of convenience(s) as it was clear to see when they were forced to live with one another under lockdown and things got dark real fast--hence why so many divorces and things like substance abuse took place during that time.
With that said I'm glad you've been able to regain agency in your professional life, perhaps she was just giving you a goal to get your mind back to former ways?
I'm not interested in making up stories about OP. We don't know how supportive their partner was, how much they shared, and how collaborate they were in the process. We also don't know what alternate realities might have been.
I think it is kinda rude to make these assumptions.
I'm just saying there are plenty of problems love, support, and teamwork can't fix. Doubly so when you don't know what is wrong in the first place. A healthy marriage can help in rough times and be a source of strength and resiliency, but is hardly a panacea for all of life's problems.
because his wife (and the kids) are going to be affected by the decisions he makes.
it doesn't take an expert in career development.
a partner is also the person that you should be able to share your innermost feelings with.
burnout especially is something partners should talk about. if your partner doesn't understand why you have problems at work then that will cause problems in the relationship.
sure once you have identified a problem you may need to seek out an expert. but you should still talk with your partner before taking any steps.
if i come home telling my wife that i decided to move to new york because they have the best treatment for my cancer then that's not going to fly. that kind of decision only both can take together.
same goes for changing jobs. it might change the commute, oe require a move. or reduce their income. OP was unhappy at work, taking on a better, but less well paid job was at least a possibility.
I wouldn't call the attitude that one ought to be able to get all the support one needs from one's partner, no matter what, healthy. That can lead to an entire category of relationship failure, I'd say.
> that's a fair point and that's not what i meant.
Apologies for the misunderstanding, then. Agree that keeping one's partner "in the loop", especially early on [edit: early on in seeking help for something, that is, not early on in the relationship], is generally advisable.
> there isn't a single problem that can't be fixed in a good relationship.
Do you think that contradicts what you quoted? Yes, you can fix those problems. But sometimes it takes more than love, support, and teamwork. Sometimes you need to make other changes.
i oversimplified. of course it takes more than just love, support and teamwork. you also need to act.
those other changes are the result of love support and teamwork. love, support and teamwork are the necessary conditions to find out what changes are necessary, and to be able to carry them out.
It is certainly a possibility. It is not uncommon for people to have a personal problem that they refused to address which is unacceptable for their partner, even if they love them.