[clavalle]

I was in the same boat.

I usually avoid buying new but used cars are nearly the same price as new (if you can find a dealer that hasn't done ridiculous 'market adjustments').

So we bought new. We had to buy a car that was just off the delivery truck before the dealership had it inspected. The one we'd looked at two days before was long gone and they expected the one we bought to be sold the next day.

My neighbor traded in his truck for more than he paid for it two years ago. It's bonkers.

Mechanics are about to make a killing.

[lastofthemojito]

The narrative earlier in the pandemic was that the reduction in driving was brutal for mechanics as it meant a reduction in need for auto maintenance and repair. Fewer of us are staying at home these days, but it looks like we're still not quite back to pre-pandemic levels of driving[0].

I'd imagine it's probably a bit of a mixed bag for mechanics, depending on what sort of vehicles they specialize in, where they're located, etc.

0: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA

[csteubs]

Might be anecdotal but on top of that, I've noticed that many car owners who previously only had services performed by a shop began doing their own maintenance. A friend who works as a service manager at CarMax had similar observations in conversations with some customers, including one DIY-er who forgot to torque their oil drain bolt correctly, lost the oil, and is now the recipient of a refurbished engine.

I had only done light maintenance/upgrade work on my cars prior to the pandemic. In the last year I've replaced a rear main seal, front + rear rotors + pads on all my cars, new control arms, shocks, and struts on a sedan, a ton of electrical work, cold air upgrades, every single fluid drained and filled, etc. DIY content on YouTube is getting to the point where a middle schooler can fab a car from scratch given enough time and motivation. YMMV (literally).

[Scoundreller]

> one DIY-er who forgot to torque their oil drain bolt correctly, lost the oil, and is now the recipient of a refurbished engine.

Shops make sure this doesn't happen by lazily hitting that bolt with an impact gun. Might never come off again.

[noahjk]

We had our oil changed recently and the shop forgot to put the cap back on from the fill port (Subaru). Figured that out after 15 miles and the smell of burning oil. Engine bay was covered.

It's always something!

[Scoundreller]

Did a similar thing where I didn’t put the oil cap gasket back on right.

Was fine until oil pressure built up and the sprayed all over the engine bay.

Probably dirtier than yours. Originally thought “must be a plastic fire somewhere”. Oops.

[sokoloff]

Jumping from only light maintenance to changing a rear main seal is quite the leap!

[csteubs]

No better feeling though! Especially when running the numbers post-fix (insert CS joke here) and comparing to shop quotes. I keep spreadsheets for two cars and an older jet ski and I've saved ~$12k this year alone by wrenching solo assuming $100/hr = standard labor rate. I've learned a TON of cross-functional skills, have full control over the parts and repair, and it's just a feel-good way to step away from my desk when things slow down at work.

I remind myself of the the 5-digit savings whenever I'm in line at Harbor Freight... which is often.

[sokoloff]

That $12K is tax-free as well. You’d likely have to earn ~$20K to pay $8K in taxes to be left with the same $12K net.

[csteubs]

You're absolutely right, I hadn't thought of that. Very interesting (and affirming) way of looking at those savings.

[jes]

Can confirm. I did brakes and rotors on all four wheels on my 4WD 2012 Tundra a while back. Went smoothly and I knew that all bolts were properly torqued when I was done.

[grp000]

You'll probably be less time efficient than a full-time mechanic though.

[csteubs]

By a large margin, definitely. I was hesitant to attempt repairs on my daily before I picked up car #2 because it was my only mode of transportation. Being able to switch between the two now gives me a much wider time margin for potential errors and my feelings about DIY repairs have gone from "keeping this car alive is going to bankrupt me" to "this is a fun hobby."

When confidence in repairability is low and stakes are high, it probably makes sense to opt for a shop.

[Cd00d]

I'm sorry, but this is an unnecessary and negative comment. I don't know why you made it.

Of course a professional will accomplish tasks faster than a DIY'er checking YouTube.

But, as OP says, there's savings AND personal satisfaction involved. Why is time-efficiency the metric you're weighting in value?

[WalterBright]

You're quite right about how good it feels to do such work yourself.

[u801e]

I've never gone as far as replacing suspension parts, mainly because the bolts tend to be very difficult to remove. Even brake rotors are hard to remove in some cases. The last time I changed the rotors, I had to use a sledgehammer and "lightly" tap on the rotor to get it to come off the hub.

As for fluids, I've done oil and automatic transmission changes. I haven't tried brake fluid or coolant though.

[eitland]

> The last time I changed the rotors, I had to use a sledgehammer and "lightly" tap on the rotor to get it to come off the hub.

I used a 2"x4" wooden beam. Felt a lot safer.

[csteubs]

Those suspension bolts are no joke. The control arm bolts on my sedan took 25 minutes of the 'blow torch --> upside down canned air' cycle get them to budge with a breaker bar. And the first drive to the alignment shop is enough to induce cold sweats on occasion.

Coolant is typically pretty easy and the intervals are longer, although I end up sticky with glycol every time I do a flush. If you ever decide to tackle the brakes, I picked up a $10 vacuum hand pump on Amazon that saved me from jury-rigging a 2liter bleeder bottle and finding someone to pump the brakes for me. Highly recommend.

[drewda]

"YMMV (literally)." ha, that's for a good laugh at the end

[emodendroket]

Sounds like it's a problem that may solve itself.

[TomJansen]

Congratulations

[Sophistifunk]

I think GP meant that it's going to be a boon because repairing your car instead of replacing it is becoming a better deal every day.

[JKCalhoun]

> My neighbor traded in his truck for more than he paid for it two years ago.

Sold my 2018 Toyota Tacoma pickup to Carmax for over $32K. I probably paid more than that a few years ago when I bought it new, but I thought it would have depreciated much more than that.

It's nice on the selling end.

[kspacewalk2]

>Mechanics are about to make a killing.

If you're a mechanic and already have plenty of business, I imagine it's a tough call: do you jack up your hourly rates and take advantage of the windfall, at the risk of customer loyalty in the future? This insanity will pass, after all.

[Wistar]

A friend owns a high line/niche used car dealership and his service shop, who has a legendary mechanic, has not increased rates at all but just got more selective about the service work they are doing. Also, effectively no new service customers as they are booked solid for months.

[eru]

So basically they are taking their increased compensation not in the form of more money from customers, but by improving their working conditions.

It's very interesting, because this situation mirrors what economists predict about minimum wages:

Employees take their compensation as a mixed basket of wages and non-monetary perks (like nicer working conditions or opportunities for learning and advancement). Different people like different baskets. Minimum wage laws make some of these baskets illegal.

So orthodox economics predicts that increases in minimum wage leads, amongst other things, to deteriorating working conditions.

Now the situation here is reversed: there's effectively a wage ceiling when service shops are unwilling to raise prices. But they can still raise compensation, by improving working conditions.

Something similar-ish happens with very high marginal tax rates: eg the US used to have crazy high marginal tax rates after WW2 that essentially amounted to salary caps. Cue companies finding all kinds of fringe benefits that were taxed less, like health insurance.

[quintushoratius]

> So orthodox economics predicts that increases in minimum wage leads, amongst other things, to deteriorating working conditions.

I've never heard that take before, but it's a fascinating idea.

Unfortunately, I think the problem we've run into in the U.S. is that minimum wage jobs have already hit rock bottom working conditions. Raising the minimum wage is the only thing left to improve conditions for those stuck in them.

[eru]

> Unfortunately, I think the problem we've run into in the U.S. is that minimum wage jobs have already hit rock bottom working conditions.

Have you seen working conditions in poorer parts of world, or in previous decades when the US was comparatively poorer?

What makes you think 2021 US is 'rock bottom'?

> Raising the minimum wage is the only thing left to improve conditions for those stuck in them.

Well, here again orthodox economics suggest other avenues: decrease taxation on labour, support increased competition between employers for labour (eg by allowing easier access by foreign companies, by making formation of capital easier, etc).

A really big deal in the US would be to 'decriminalize' construction of new housing. That by itself would open up oodles of blue collar job opportunities to compete with existing employers, and it would also decrease what everyone (including workers) has to pay afford a place to stay.

[throwawaylinux]

If you're subscribing to orthodox economics then in that case raising minimum wage would result in job losses.

What I think would actually happen is (perhaps some job losses, but) more jobs being pushed underground and laws skirted.

I'm not against minimum wages or increasing it as such, but if the lowest paid workers are in such dire conditions, the fundamental problem seems to be that they have insufficient bargaining power. A huge issue has to be illegal immigrant population that largely competes for low wage positions -- I've heard it's estimated about 15 million but could be as high as double that. Absolutely staggering numbers in either case and being concentrated in the supply of low skill labor it hits the most disadvantaged Americans including minorities hardest unfortunately. I know it's verboten to speak about now, but even champions of labor and the disadvantaged such as Sanders talked about the problem before Trump sent everyone off the rails (and/or the corporatists completed their capture of the left-wing side of politics).

[eru]

> If you're subscribing to orthodox economics then in that case raising minimum wage would result in job losses.

No, that's just one outcome. I already described another outcome higher up the comment tree: reduction in non-wage benefits.

In practice, you would probably see some combination of outcomes.

> A huge issue has to be illegal immigrant population that largely competes for low wage positions -- I've heard it's estimated about 15 million but could be as high as double that.

The demand curve for labour seems to be nearly horizontal, ie in the longer run more or less labour supplied (almost) doesn't change its price.

> [...] but even champions of labor and the disadvantaged such as Sanders talked about the problem [...]

Are you suggesting that those people who are desperate enough to become nearly right-less illegal immigrants do not count as labour or as disadvantaged?

(I can very well believe that Sanders doesn't care about them, of course.)

[BurningFrog]

I took "being selective" to mean focusing on the most profitable jobs.

[Wistar]

In this case, it is a blend of more profitable, less challenging jobs such as brakes and LOF, as well as interesting cases requiring the lead mechanic's renowned diagnostic skills. I have often thought this mechanic should maintain a blog about some of the crazy and perplexing issues he has solved but, he just has no interest in writing them up. Besides, I am not sure he could write them up as some of the leaps in logic he makes are closer to magic than any sort of process.

Also, they have used this era to weed out the pain-in-the-ass customers.

[CoastalCoder]

I noticed a similar dynamic with general contractors / handymen a few years ago.

There was a multi-year period where the demand far exceeded supply, but they didn't seem to adjust their billing rates accordingly.

I never got a clear answer as to why. The one guy I talked to seemed scarred by a very demand-limited market some years prior, so maybe he was fearful of making any changes that might leave him under-employed.

[greedo]

I had the exact opposite occur. The missus wanted a patio installed (pavers or bluestone) and the quote we got from one guy was 10k over what others were bidding. He didn't even submit any drawings/diagrams, just told us the quote. Obviously didn't want the job.

Same thing happened with a flooring guy who could have done $30k worth of work. He kept claiming he'd send us a bid but eventually ghosted us.

Tradespeople can skip doing the hard/less-profitable jobs right now while the market is hot.

[Scoundreller]

As you observed, a shrewd tradesperson never refuses work, they just give a terrible quote.

I had an aunt where the neighbour's son replaced a section of fence and just said to pay what they felt was reasonable and it was difficult for my aunt to come up with a number. Probably wasted a few hours coming up with that number, ugh.

[raisedbyninjas]

It's not just inflated labor pricing. Customers are willing to make more extensive repairs because it's more economical than buying a replacement.

[ska]

Perhaps you just get pickier about the jobs you take.

[randycupertino]

My mechanic does this! He loves to work on classic cars as a passion project and has a bunch of classics in his lot that he's slowly working on, however if you call him now, his voicemail says, "Please note if you are calling to inquire work on a model over 20 years old the waiting list is 5-6 months."

He's a great guy- if anyone is in Bay Area and needs a good honest mechanic for foreign or domestic, shout out to Jack at Tom and Jacks in San Bruno!

[olyjohn]

I tried to get in for an alignment a couple of months ago. I'm used to making an appointment 1 or 2 days out for this sort of thing. All the local shops were booked out over a month. I eventually found a place that had an opening, which ended up being a chain... But I couldn't drive my car for 2 weeks with a bad alignment while I wait for the appointment.

[throwaway0a5e]

That message does nice double duty as a PC way of saying poors need not bother shopping him for a quote to replace something on their '99 Grand Caravan.

[CoastalCoder]

IIUC, you're implying that that mechanic is disdainful of poor customers, and that this just provides convenient political cover.

If so, I'm not sure why you'd assume that. It seems more likely to me that the mechanic is simply choosing his work based on personal interest and perhaps profitability. I don't see why we'd ask anything more than that from him.

[throwaway0a5e]

I'm not assuming. Everyone even remotely close to the industry knows that mechanics don't like the people who want to do the bare minimum amount of work all the time and that fairly strongly correlates to "poors". Of course given the choice a mechanic would rather do an oil change on a '15 4Runner owned by some yuppie he can upsell a cabin air filter to than do a timing set on a '03 Outback for someone who'll decline the water pump that they traditionally try and sell with it.

[tonyedgecombe]

Sadly life gets a lot easier when you exclude the poorest customers. I don't blame anybody for doing that.

[NDizzle]

Will the insanity pass, though? There's talk of putting cameras in all cars starting in 2026 to prevent... drunk driving[1]?! What's next?

I can't be alone in never buying a car that has this feature.

[1] https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-11-09/congre...

[noduerme]

I still won't even buy a car with GPS. Seems I'm in a vanishing minority. It won't pass, because people born after 1990 have spent their adult lives in a world with surveillance machines in their pockets at all times. Their cars are just big phones. By 2040 you probably won't even be allowed to drive your own vehicle.

[OnlineGladiator]

GPS is a one-way communication. It's really no different from radio in that regard (a signal sent from far away and you have an antenna to read the signal). Unless there's also a cellular modem in your car (which pretty much every modern car has today so I'm not pretending this is unusual) it's impossible for others to monitor your location. You can simply disable the cellular modem and enjoy using GPS without anyone else knowing where you are.

Also, those cellular modems in cars tend to use older technology (this is fairly standard for the auto industry in general since there is such a long regulatory approval process for anything). My 2018 model year car will no longer be able to communicate remotely in January 2022 because the cellular network is being deprecated.

[noduerme]

I understand this. To be clear, I'm willing to use GPS. I'm willing to carry a cellphone. I'm even willing to use those things in conjunction when I choose to put a battery in and turn mobile data on and location on. If there were a car with a built-in GPS that didn't have cellular reception, I would get it. (I used to use a TomTom).

But I won't buy a car where those things are integrated and can't be turned off. Several people here seem to assume that I don't understand that almost all cars from the past decade have this capability.

It's one reason I drive a car from 1980, with basically no electronics whatsoever. (Other reasons being: it's more fun, it's simple to repair, and it will still run after an EMP).

[OnlineGladiator]

I'm saying it's really easy to just kill the cellular modem in pretty much any car. Just short it with solder if you want to. Now you can enjoy almost any car with none of the privacy concerns.

If you prefer older cars that's fine, but there's an easy workaround if the issue really is whether or not there's a cellular modem. I've done this before on multiple vehicles and it won't void the warranty for anything other than parts you want to disable already.

[emaginniss]

Right, but they can access your car later and see all the places you've been.

[lotsofpulp]

Seems like a futile effort to avoid cars with GPS if you carry a device around that is connected to a mobile network. Is there anyone that does not carry around a dumb phone, if not a smartphone?

[ranger_danger]

You could unplug the antenna or replace the head unit.

[hyperman1]

To be honest, not being allowed to drive your own vehicle is probably a good thing.

See e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/global-road-safety/index.... From the first few paragraphs:

  Road traffic crashes are a leading cause of death in the United States for people aged 1–54     

  More than half of those killed are pedestrians, motorcyclists, or cyclists.

Drivers risk other people's lives, hence, other people have a right to demand safety from drivers' actions. Supposing computers do get better than humans in the future, why not just stop humans from doing this dangerous activity?

If someone wants to do some old school driving in 2040, go have fun on a private racetrack or whatever. You can even ignore speed limits.

[zizee]

It does wrestle a lot of control from the individual though. It's not hard to imagine possible abuses of power. Tracking everyone's movements is just the start. What if some government decided to deny service to someone? Or not let certain groups travel to certain places. Imagine opportunities for havoc due to hacking

I'd still like driverless cars, but privacy and freedom of movement rights protections need to be thought about.

[hyperman1]

There are 2 separate aspects here: Driverless, and governement controlled. A driverless car might be a car like today's, except with a computer on board. Governement doesn't connect with your car at an individual level, even if they might adapt the road code a bit to make it more easy on the cars.

The problems you mention are real, but a driverless car doesn't change much. Havoc due to hacking is already possible today, with OTA software updates for cars. Tracking is also possible with cell phones. Driverless car software could be like GPS updates today: Some corporation provides a yearly update and that's it.

[elzbardico]

You don't need remote control for that. Just a etanol sensor, local processing, car computer refuses to start.

[noduerme]

>> If someone wants to do some old school driving in 2040, go have fun on a private racetrack or whatever

This reminds me of how only rich people could afford to fly places in the 1940s; then the upper-middle class could afford airline vacations in the 60s-80s; then by the 2000s, it was available to everyone so everyone had to be treated like scum/cattle, and once again if you wanted to take a nice vacation you had to be rich and buy first class tickets, or rent a jet.

So your ideal vision for 2040 is that everyone is herded everywhere and no one gets to experience even a fleeting sense of freedom on the road, except the extremely rich who can afford cars that aren't road-legal and can only go to racetracks? Or maybe large private land holdings?

Because currently, we still live in a society where the average person can experience a modicum of freedom - mobility, autonomy, and privacy - by getting in their car and driving it without help from a computer or monitoring from the government. I think that's worth preserving. A generation that grows up without ever feeling that freedom will be way too easy to control.

Maybe driving your own car will seem anachronistic like, say, writing in full sentences without emojis. But if you think about what we'd be losing, as a personal experience of having the privilege to take yourself anywhere on your own recognizance, it seems like a massive step backwards to deprive humans of that. And it sounds like imprisonment.

[vagrantJin]

I certainly don't buy that your car is freedom trope sold to our parents to buy the latest car back in the sixties. Most cars are dailies and only ever drive between home, work, store ad nauseum. So the rosy tinted idea that cars are freedom just means more traffic, complaining about fuel, complaining about tires, complaining about insurance, and the forgetful fact that humans are driving around a metal and plastic box with several dozen litres of flammable fuel at 100km/h - while listening to shitty breakfast show radio.

No thanks.

I'd rather we do away with the car is freedom trope. Most cars arent even useful, just signals to your nieghbours and friends that you are, in fact, balling. No thanks. Uber had the right idea. Don't own it, go where you want and pay up. Should be cheap when it's automated. Don't like that then take public transport...and if you can - just walk. What happened to just walking?

Right...you can't because our spaces are designed for car travel, not people. Do you see my point?

[notreallyserio]

I have the opposite view: driving doesn't feel like freedom to me. It feels like a necessary evil forced upon my by prior generations. Using a self driving car to get around sounds a lot more free to me as I'd be free to do something other than stare at the road and listen to podcasts.

[postsantum]

I am sure it would work great with the upcoming quarantine of 2038. Fellow citizen, for your own good, your car has been geofenced to your local grocery shop

[noduerme]

This is my cubicle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

Projecting 6 different insta feeds on the walls and floor and ceiling will be so freeing for our kids. They can save up for a Meta subscription with GTA GFE. Just like driving in a real car with a real girlfriend, but better.

[Scoundreller]

bicycles (wo)man!

[RNCTX]

You're never going to see Elon Musk assume liability for one of his exploding deathtraps. It will always come with the disclaimer that you're responsible for driving it.

Autopiloted cars are just investor marketing.

[oceanplexian]

This brings up an interesting point which is why I recently bought a used car. The late 90s, 00s are probably the last road-legal vehicles that won’t spy on you. I wouldn’t put it past lawmakers to make phoning home mandatory like they did with backup cameras. I’m guessing this will also cause prices to skyrocket since there is a sizable minority of people like us who will refuse to buy a car that’s plugged into the Internet.

[mark-r]

Worse yet, they'll make you pay for a subscription to the spy service! I've had my new car for exactly a year now, and I got multiple warnings that they were going to turn off the connection that they use for roadside assistance etc. unless I ponied up $8 a month.

[KennyBlanken]

I have news for you: not getting a car with navigation doesn't mean squat.

Any vehicle sold with telematics available not only has GPS, but that telematics system is feeding the manufacturer data from the vehicle, including your location.

This happens whether you're subscribing to the telematics service or not. It's always on. Some vehicles do it multiple times an hour or more.

[ranger_danger]

Just unplug the GPS/cell antennas if you're that paranoid? Newer cars will not be made without them anyway because they are actually safety features.

[noduerme]

Being spied on is always a safety feature. That's why North Korea is the safest country in the world. No one ever dies there. Not a single case of covid!

[ranger_danger]

Believe it or not, trying to tell people they don't want someone else just a voice command or push button away in the case of an accident, is actually a hard sell. It might be seen as a privacy invasion to some (whether it's used as such in practice is another story), but to others it might actually save their life.

[muffinman26]

For me it's the touchscreen tablet-like control consoles. The Tesla controls are essentially a laptop in the middle of the car. Given what we know about texting while driving, it is absolutely ludicrous to me that those things are even legal, let alone common.

[fshbbdssbbgdd]

One compromise is jacking up rates for new customers only.

[vkou]

Keep rates steady for old customers, raise rates for new ones.

[barrenko]

Yes it will, just like real estate prices.

Joke.

[eru]

Could you please explain the joke?

[eru]

> I usually avoid buying new but used cars are nearly the same price as new (if you can find a dealer that hasn't done ridiculous 'market adjustments').

It seems like the dealers who didn't make these 'adjustments' are leaving money on the table?

> Mechanics are about to make a killing.

Well, we often hear exhortations to reduce-reuse-recycle. Here, the market is sending a price signal exactly along these lines, and people react appropriately.

[quintushoratius]

>> I usually avoid buying new but used cars are nearly the same price as new (if you can find a dealer that hasn't done ridiculous 'market adjustments').

>It seems like the dealers who didn't make these 'adjustments' are leaving money on the table?

I believe their behavior is somewhat constrained by the manufacturers, who have slightly different sales goals in mind. They take a longer view, where new car sales are more than a sale, it represents a chance to upgrade the customer in a couple of years.

Dealerships, on the other hand, often take a very short-sighted view of customers.

[jiveturkey]

Why are dealer market adjustments ridiculous? We live and breathe market forces. No one ever, ever, complains about market adjustments in their favor.

[SilasX]

It’s the opposite:

Normal market: “this product costs $2.60.”

‘Wasn’t it like, $2.10 a week ago?’

“Yes it was.”

Cars:

“This car is $26k. Oh, also you have to pay a $2k market adjustment, because man things are just crazy.”

That is, in normal markets, you just raise the price, you don’t need to refer to an explicit “market adjustment”, especially not as a random addon.

[sokoloff]

On a used car, they do as you describe. On a new car, the sticker generally starts with something like “manufacturer’s suggested base price” then various options, then local adjustments. You can’t just claim that the manufacturer’s suggested base price is $2K higher than it actually is.

[MobiusHorizons]

I mean you _could_. MSRP is not unique to cars. Graphics cards are sold in online stores for higher than MSRP. It's just not something that dealers are likely to do, because they gravitate towards fees over changing the price.

[sokoloff]

My claim was simpler. If Ford’s MSRP is $35K and you write up a window sticker representing that Ford MSRP is actually $37K, you’re committing fraud and of a type that will be easily discovered and proven.

So you instead write it as $35K and tack on “market adjustment” or “additional dealer profit” or whatever else of $2K.

[jiveturkey]

It's completely fair to raise the price due to supply and demand, just as its fair to lower it. I don't think you are objecting to that, in either direction. But your complaint that it should just be called the price is a bit puzzling. Honestly, what do you (anyone) care what it's called? It's not a random addon, it's a carefully calculated (and continually tested) clearing price.

Normal market car pricing: "This car costs $26k. Oh also, we are giving $2k off because man we have so many of these. And so does the dealer in the next county over. Please buy from us. Today."

This is normal because discounts motivate buying behaviors, not because car manufacturers are laughably bad at setting MSRP. But also, it's critical for prices to be flexible regionally, and faster than the manufacturer can declare what the fair price should be.

Saturn famously tried non negotiable national sticker pricing. Just like Sears tried having no sales whatsoever. Both had to revert to standard pricing behavior.

My point? In a normal market, the sticker price is not the price.

[SilasX]

Most markets don’t put you through that garbage, no.

And it’s not fair to advertise one price and add on a market adjustment when someone asks to buy it.

[greedo]

This is an industry famous for charging a small fortune for BS undercoatings. For Doc fees, Nitrogen air in tires, destination fees etc.

[frosted-flakes]

Rust-prevention undercoatings aren't BS. They really work if re-applied regularly.

[satronaut]

I bought a tesla about a year ago. I only had to wait a week for it. 0 down and something like 2% APR. I feel like I really lucked out there

[mancerayder]

It's regional. I got one some months ago "barely used" with 12 miles on it, delivered within a month. A friend's Model 3 got flooded and insurance paid for a new one, he was able to get a Model 3 Performance within two weeks, brand new. This was one month ago in the Northeast. A friend in Denver, CO, was not so lucky: casually looking to buy in September, a delivery timeframe of Jan-Feb 2022 presented itself.

[satronaut]

it's crazy! like, I'm sure tesla is loving having the backlog, but this isn't some transitory issue like cnn wants us to think.

[propogandist]

we're talking about trends and the crazy car market this year, but thanks for telling us you got a tesla

[satronaut]

you're welcome, I love telling people I got a tesla =)

[baggy_trough]

Why do you think those market adjustments are ridiculous? Isn't that how supply and demand will adjust?

[lotsofpulp]

If you are adversely affected by price changes, then price changes ridiculous, absurd, and ripoffs.

If you are beneficially affected by price changes, then price changes are a result of supply and demand.

[eru]

There's a third option:

The market clearing price has increased, but sellers refuse (or are banned) from increasing their prices. That way leads to queues and shortages.

Of course, in the opposite direction you get inventory piling up (or unemployed people).

[clavalle]

You're right, poor choice of words.

Quite rational market adjustments.

However...I did end up going to another dealership that didn't do the adjustments. Since I tend to stick with vendors, especially for large ticket items, I suspect the total lifetime value the first dealership missed out on by tacking on the market adjustment (that they didn't tell us about until we asked -- it wasn't on the sticker), eclipses the extra profit they would have made on that sale, even when adjusting for the time value of money.