[johnsocs]

When you sign up you agree to the fee being broken up in installments. I think they have spelled it out pretty clearly, actually one could consider it ‘free’ financing in a sense. While I don’t like what they have done I don’t see what the big deal is with it.

[slaymaker1907]

It seems like even the original post isn't suggesting that what they are doing is illegal, just scummy. I think it straddles the line of false advertising since it is pretty clear by looking at the market of subscriptions that there is a decent premium for a monthly vs. a yearly subscription.

As a point of reference, World of Warcraft offers about a 10% discount for their 6 month subscription plan compared to the month to month plan. Additionally, they have pretty consistently offered one free item from the store (which they choose) for players on the 6 month plan. The last such item was a mount which must otherwise be purchased for $25 (obviously the true value to 6 month subscribers is lower than $25 due to bundling and since subscribers don't get to choose which item they receive).

[paxys]

I don't understand what's scummy about this. Every service out there offers discounted prices for longer-term contracts since they are guaranteed a sustained future income. If they didn't have a penalty for breaking the contract then everyone would just game the system.

What should they do instead? Not have the annual payment option and screw over all the people who do want to pay for the entire year and are happy with the discount?

[slaymaker1907]

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not against longer term contracts, but Adobe's marketing only advertises "monthly" prices which are really the yearly contract paid out monthly. They apparently have three separate tiers: actual monthly (most expensive, not advertised), yearly but paid monthly, and yearly charged yearly (also not advertised very well).

We also can't ignore the environment around subscription payments. If many other SaaS companies offered similar yearly but paid monthly plans, I think Adobe CC plans would be less problematic.

I'm definitely not against yearly plans, but this is unnecessarily confusing. If the advertising were honest, it would be more clear that this is a loan/lease agreement or they would advertise the real yearly cost/real monthly plans instead of this weird hybrid plan.

[harimau777]

Personally, I think they should simply sell the product rather than rent seeking. Perhaps combined with some sort of rent to own option for people who are unable to make a single upfront purchase.

[mardifoufs]

Rent seeking? Seriously? You realize that rent seeking actually has a definition and it isn't "any business model I don't like" . This is the opposite of rent seeking, you pay for a monthly subscription to a product line that keeps getting updated and supported. That's a directly & mutually beneficial transaction.

Take video editing as an example. The tech it involves (such tracking or object detection) usually improves pretty quickly and the improvement can be drastic . Not having to shell out hundreds of dollars outright every new CS version just to keep up with the tech is a pretty big benefit for a lot of people and makes the ecosystem more accessible. That's true for almost every other software included in the Adobe subscription.

Now, it's absolutely okay to still dislike subscription based business models (I do too) but in this case it's non sense to argue it's rent seeking.

[harimau777]

It's definitely rent seeking. Seriously.

If the updates and support were valuable to people, then Adobe could simply charge for them directly (e.g. by requiring users to periodically pay a fee to upgrade to the updated version). Instead they only allow people to buy a subscription.

[paxys]

Photoshop is overall a lot cheaper under the subscription model than it was before. A boxed copy used to cost $800-$1000 (in 90s/00s dollars). Even if you skipped some versions and upgraded every 3ish years, it would come to ~$300-$350/yr. You can get an annual subscription today for $240/yr. And that's without factoring in inflation and the fact that you can just pay for a month or two of use if you want. And you're always on the latest version.

[gentleman11]

It’s not clear. I went to sign up once and was looking for text like this and could not find it. I didn’t sign up because everyone says it’s impossible to cancel later, and I was worried I missed something in the terms

[greggman3]

Yes, and for certain products they do actually offer monthly licenses.

After Effects has 3 tiers

1. Annual Plan paid monthly ($20.99 * 12 = $251.88)

2. Annual plan prepaid $239.88

3. Monthly Plan $31.49

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html?filter=video-...

For Photoshop they only offer 2 plans

1. Annual Plan paid monthly ($9.99 * 12 = $119.88)

2. Annual plan prepaid $119.88

So no discount. The wording might have been poor before because I remember when I first signed up i didn't know they only had yearly plans but at least now it's pretty clear

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html?filter=photo&...

[sherry-sherry]

This: https://imgur.com/a/yQFQRKF is what you see when looking at prices and after clicking Buy Now. It says "annual plan, paid monthly", but doesn't state the fee, it vaguely mentions the price. Clicking 'learn more' does not tell you the fee.

It think it's deceptive, at best.

[amatecha]

I mean, what I see is: A$76.99/mo

The word "annual" doesn't even appear on the first screen anywhere. It's even very easy to miss the word "annual" on the little dropdown on the checkout screen (2nd screenshot). If you are in a rush, it's VERY easy to see numerous line items for "$___/mo" and miss the single instance of the word "annual" in this entire checkout flow.

Where is the link to an agreement that the user has to read to even complete this purchase? Is it just on another step elsewhere in the process?

[thirdsun]

When I read "Annual plan, paid monthly" I expect to be on the hook for the whole year. I wouldn't even assume that there is an option to cancel early.

Apparently the early cancellation fee is 50% of your remaining subscription fees. In other words it's an improvement to the actual terms I signed up for when I agreed to be committed for 1 year. I dont see why Adobe needs to explicitely "warn" customers about an option that is actually beneficial to them (the users, not Adobe).

[sherry-sherry]

Perhaps this is a country/regional thing, but I definitely do not expect to be on the hook for the whole year. In Australia it's quite common to have phone/power/gas/insurance plans that are 1/2 year contracts, but to cancel it you pay a small fee.

If fact, when I think about things I currently pay for, none of them work like Adobe's contract.

- I have a 1 year contract with my energy provider, the cancel fee is ~$45 and I must give them 20 days notice

- My phone has a 24 month plan, to cancel I pay any remaining phone/accessory payments and nothing for the plan, that's it

- My car insurance is paid annually in advance. If I cancel 6 months in they charge a $40 fee and refund me the pro-rata amount for the remaining six months

My point is Adobe could be upfront and clearer with the overall pricing, terms, renewals, and cancel fees — I don't think they are at all.

Edit: fixed some formatting issues

[thirdsun]

It might indeed be a regional thing and I'm not saying that early cancelation is unheard of, but to me it wouldn't be an expectation. Anyway, just a few thoughts:

> In Australia it's quite common to have phone/power/gas/insurance plans that are 1/2 year contracts, but to cancel it you pay a small fee.

> - I have a 1 year contract with my energy provider, the cancel fee is ~$45 and I must give them 20 days notice.

Depending on how small the fee is it sounds as if this renders the concept of a half (or full) year contract worthless.

> My phone has a 24 month plan, to cancel I pay any remaining phone payments, that's it

Doesn't paying the remaining payments mean that you actually pay the full price as agreed to when you signed up? If so, how is Adobe's cancelation fee not an improvement? It is smaller than the remaining payments after all.

> My point is Adobe could be upfront and clearer with the overall pricing, terms, renewals, and cancel fees — I don't think they are at all.

I still disagree. If I sign up for an annual subscription I have no expactation of getting out of it early. That's what the monthly subscription is for. If they offer a way to cancel early despite my annual commitment that's a bonus which can be advertised, but doesn't have to be (again, why should they? That's what the monthly subscription is for).

[Meph504]

it clearly says "annual plan, paid monthly" which is what you are signing up for, a year long obligation, with installment payments.

if you click the drop down, it shows you not only your other options but also the prices.

https://i.imgur.com/CZSCvw8.png

[cbmuser]

> it clearly says "annual plan, paid monthly" which is what you are signing up for, a year long obligation, with installment payments.

It seems that a lot of people in this thread don’t seem to know the fundamental principle of contracts: Pacta sunt servanda, i.e. contracts are supposed to be fulfilled.

[sherry-sherry]

That is the wrong price.

The annual prepaid amount is different from the annual, paid monthly price.

[Meph504]

Yes, the annual plan paid monthly cost more, Adobe wants the money up front, so you pay more for speadinng the payments over a year.

[sherry-sherry]

My issue is Adobe never shows the total you will pay over 12 months for the ‘annual/paid monthly plan’, nor do they show the cancel fee.

They could be clear and upfront with it, but aren’t... can’t imagine why.

[Meph504]

It goes month to month after 12 months, it doesn't stop, but I grant you sure they could make their own deals sound less appealing, but without a law forcing them too, they aren't going to.

This right below the button you press to start your subscription.

  By clicking "Agree and subscribe," you agree: You will be charged US$52.99 (plus tax) monthly and at the end of your one-year term, your subscription will automatically renew monthly until you cancel (price subject to change). No annual commitment required after the first year. Cancel anytime via Adobe Account or Customer Support. Cancel before Apr 26, 2021 to get a full refund and avoid a fee. You also agree to the Terms of Use and the Subscription and Cancellation Terms.

I mean, at some point, you are responsible for the financial transaction you make, this person that is playing the victim in this case had several chances to see what they were purchasing. They wanted a lower price, and signed up for it, they are acting like they are a victim of some trickery.

They made a mistake, adobe honored the subscription, and they should too, take it as a life lesson to pay more attention before obligating themselves.

People need to learn to treat transactions and contracts as a hostile situation and they can easily do themselves great harm by blindly ignoring the terms of a deal and some how thing it will be to their benefit.

[ziml77]

How is it deceptive? They don't even need to let you cancel if they don't want. The point of the annual plan is that you're accepting the obligation of paying for a full year.

[sherry-sherry]

At no point are you told what the total for the 12 months is, nor are you told the minimum cancellation fee.

[thirdsun]

I think it's reasonable to assume to a user is able to multiply a monthly fee by the number of months in a year.

[sherry-sherry]

Can't Adobe? We know they can, I believe they should be required.