[gtrhtrhtrhtr]

I personally I'm getting richer. Working for a big corp as a software engineer, I've done nothing but saving more money since the lock down started. I've also done much more shopping on Amazon, so I guess I'm giving back some of that money to other big corps. Doing groceries at Costo so money is not leaving the circle of big corps.

I've tried to eat out more often, even leaving less or no tips in order to feel more incentivized to not eat at home.

[prh8]

This would be funny if it wasn't entirely plausible around here

[prh8]

Sadly, looking at other comments here and history it doesn't appear to be a joke

[akka47]

the most HN comment I've read all day

[darkteflon]

Must be parody, surely.

[vestrigi]

Eating out more often to stimulate small businesses but leaving little to no tip also sounds counter-intuitive.

[Larrikin]

Would the restaurants prefer I just cook at home or order pick up with no tip? It's an unworkable business model if the direct exchange for the menu price is not enough. There used to be the service of walking your food to you and refilling your drinks a couple times that restaurants claimed the charity was for but it makes no sense when you're picking up directly.

[tyingq]

I'd say it's okay not to tip, so long as you tell the person who would have received it your intentions, in advance. Only fair they adjust accordingly.

[cmdshiftf4]

>Only fair they adjust accordingly.

Er, not serve? Or a degraded service which entails what? Begrudging looks?

Always a chuckle to behold America's fetish for tipping.

[tyingq]

I get why someone wouldn't like it. But it's not a battle you can fight at that scale. The wait staff get paid $2.13 an hour. They feel the pain, not the business or the American fetish meisters.

[gtrhtrhtrhtr]

How? Tipping is friction and makes you feel bad, by not doing it I'm incentivized to eat out more often. What matters to me are small businesses, if I help the workers but not the small businesses there'll be no job for them tomorrow.

[RHSeeger]

It's worth noting that servers at restaurants are required by law to make minimum wage. If their actual wages (the minimum the employer can pay them, called the "basic cash wage") plus their tips do not bring them over minimum wage, then their employer is required to make up the difference. So if nobody tips, the business winds up having to pay more.

So you're likely hurting both the worker and employer, and making it more complicated for both of them.

Specifics (basic cash wage value, etc) vary by state.

[Frondo]

Anecdotally, from my friends who work in the service industry, this is also a law that is often simply ignored -- so in lean shifts, workers can go home with less than federal minimum wage. Not a good scene.

[toomuchtodo]

Your efforts make you feel good, but on your scale are useless (tipping, not tipping, whatever). Not a judgement in any way.

The only meaningful help is broad scale fiscal policy support.

[gtrhtrhtrhtr]

I'd be willing to pay more taxes to help the economy, but most people are against this. In the mean time I do my part by eating out more often and visiting small businesses.

[natechols]

I have yet to see anyone suggest donating to food banks. Anyone can complain that the government should do something, but if you're not willing to volunteer your own disposable income, you shouldn't expect others to. The average software engineer can probably feed an additional family of four with no effort.

[captainredbeard]

Dude, food service workers are paid poorly and tips are an expected part of their meager comp.

[prewett]

So consumers are expected to accept a guilt trip to make up the difference and enable businesses to meagerly compensate their workers?

[gowld]

Eating out more often doesn't help if the workers don't get paid.

[Apocryphon]

Maybe as a start you can try both paying for food and tipping, especially if you claim that you're growing wealthier while others grow poorer.

[prh8]

Doesn't appear like it

[fennecfoxen]

> Doing groceries at Costo so money is not leaving the circle of big corps.

Costco's net margin is ~2.6%, so the other 97.4% is leaving Costco for labor (notably well-paid for grocery stores) and whoever their suppliers are. Are they substantially different from your normal grocery store's suppliers? For that matter, is your normal grocery store itself different from Costco in some structural way that is meaningful to you? Perhaps you were previously shopping at a coop like San Francisco's Rainbow Groceries or New York's Park Slope Food Coop?

[oivey]

So you’re getting more for less by eating out more often and not tipping? And you’re also saving more than ever? I mean, that’s cool, but I hope you don’t think you’re being altruistic.

[infogulch]

I think GP comment is parody/satire? (maybe?)

[gtrhtrhtrhtr]

I want to help small businesses.

[tolbish]

At the expense of convenience?

[gtrhtrhtrhtr]

I'm not sure I understand, would you rather me not eat out and help out small businesses? My money, my way of helping. I pay taxes for the rest.

[tolbish]

I'm in the same boat as you. I want to help small businesses, but Amazon makes it easy to not do so, particularly during the holiday season.

[Trasmatta]

> I've tried to eat out more often, even leaving less or no tips in order to feel more incentivized to not eat at home.

If you live in the US this is a real jerk move. You're talking about how you're getting richer, but then aren't willing to tip the service worker making less than minimum wage?

[cgriswald]

No service working in the United States is making less than minimum wage unless their employer is breaking the law regardless of whether you tip.

[alistairSH]

True. The wages laws that govern service staff is generally written as a conditional, where the employee earns the greater of:

1. Standard minimum wage 2. Some value less than minimum wage + tips

If the employee doesn't break minimum wage by adding their wage+tips, the employer has to make them whole. And then likely cut their hours and force them to look for other work.

[minikites]

>the employer has to make them whole

No they don't, because what are you going to do about it? Hire a lawyer on your minimum wage salary (assuming you even know you're getting cheated)?

[cgriswald]

Every employee in the United States can file complaints with their state labor board and the U.S. Department of Labor Wage and Hour Division.

[minikites]

If this is both true and effective, why is wage theft still extremely prevalent?

[minikites]

Would it shock you to find out that many, many employers break the law?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Wage_the...

https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-th...

To everyone: please tip. It is in fact very likely that any given restaurant is not and would not make up the difference in pay for an under-tipped employee.

[cgriswald]

> It is in fact very likely that any given restaurant is not and would not make up the difference in pay for an under-tipped employee.

Your sources do not support this claim.

[minikites]

Here, let me quote from the article I linked:

>Survey research shows that well over two-thirds of low-wage workers have been the victims of wage theft.

"Over two-thirds" means you are more likely than not to eat at a restaurant that has cheated its employees.

[cgriswald]

I followed some of the links and could not find a primary source for the data. (Links were either broken, redirected to the same page, or lead to other secondary sources.) So please link that if you've got it.

> "Over two-thirds" means you are more likely than not to eat at a restaurant that has cheated its employees.

No. It doesn't. It means that, in their entire lifetime as employees of any number of employers, two-thirds of employees, at least once, experienced wage theft in some form.

That's a much different statement and says nothing at all about whether those employees were robbed of overtime, asked to work for free, or their employers claimed tip credits for tips the employees didn't receive.

[FpUser]

Taking care of their employees should be a business of their employer. They should not transfer their problems over to me: a customer. Sure I can tip if someone did an extraordinary job and impressed me but the last thing I should have on my mind is that If I do not tip then the person would go hungry.

[minikites]

That's an admirable goal, but it is manifestly untrue in the present-day USA.

[gtrhtrhtrhtr]

I don't agree. I don't like tipping and so I do not eat out usually because of this.

Right now I understand that we need to do our part to help small businesses, so I'm making an effort and tricking my brain into eating out by not tipping. This is where I want to put my money: I think it's my responsibility if small businesses are going to survive, I don't think it's my responsibility if workers are not paid well.

[majormajor]

Why do you value the small business owner more than the small business employee?

[gtrhtrhtrhtr]

I value the employee, I think they'll do fine with minimum wages, but they won't do fine if the small business goes down.

[minikites]

One of the reasons some people visit restaurants is to feel powerful in relation to their server and a big part of that is making them "perform" for a good tip.

[alistairSH]

I don't like tipping and so I do not eat out usually because of this.

This doesn't really make sense. Without tipping (expected nationally), the cost of labor would just have to be priced directly into the food. Instead of a $15 burger, it would be $20.

If you don't like to spend money on dining out, fine, but it has little to do with tipping and more to do with being frugal.

[ketamine__]

> This doesn't really make sense. Without tipping (expected nationally), the cost of labor would just have to be priced directly into the food. Instead of a $15 burger, it would be $20.

So basically it does make sense because it is easier if the price is the total cost.

[gtrhtrhtrhtr]

I disagree, tipping is stupid because it is based on percentages. Why should I give more tip because I bought a more expensive item? Sorry but we don't have to agree, forcing tipping on others is an asshole move.

[learc83]

Tipping severs is the way our society works. By eating at table service restaurant you are implying that you are going to pay the server despite the fact that you have no intention to do so. It’s no different than your manager dicking you around by saying you’ll probably get a raise if you work overtime despite having no intention to do so.

Rationalize all you want, but you’re acting like a huge asshole.

If you are morally opposed to tipping, eat takeout or at a counter serve restaurant.

[Alupis]

You say you don't eat out because you don't like tipping - and that businesses should just pay their employees more so you don't have to tip. OK fine - but doesn't that just result in a meal costing what it does now + tip? How is that any different?

Actually, it would cost more than just standard price + tip as you funnel the money into the business first before it hits the employee's bank account.

> Right now I understand that we need to do our part to help small businesses, so I'm making an effort and tricking my brain into eating out by not tipping

This logic is absurd. Both small businesses and employees of small businesses are being crushed right now. Support them both or don't use their services.

You deciding to eat out is consuming time from the wait staff (who often tips out bussers and kitchen staff too). That time could have been spent serving another table that decides to tip.

You are literally taking money away from small business employees by continuing this behavior. You are punishing them for serving you a meal. How is that appropriate?

[amptorn]

You should be tipping triple right now, rich boy.

[ocdtrekkie]

The rich get richer as the poor get poorer. Case in point.

[vmception]

The poor get *children

[SubiculumCode]

This user lives in one arm of K-Shaped Recovery.

[loblollyboy]

Is that you TechLead?

[jdhn]

I really hope that this is a parody and that we've all taken the bait in responding to you.

[fnord77]

tips exist because small businesses grossly underpay their workers.

[dragonwriter]

> tips exist because small businesses grossly underpay their workers.

Tipping culture exists as an excuse for service workers to not only be grossly underpaid, but also to be compensated unequally in ways that would violate nondiscrimination laws if employers did it directly.

There's nothing special about small business, it's not like big chain corporate table-service restaurants (or, say, massive gig economy firms) don't underpay just as badly as any small business.

[rabuse]

We all understand that, but it's still negligent to not give a tip to workers, who you know depend on it. Until that industry somehow makes the shift away from tipping, people still need to survive.

[dragonwriter]

> Until that industry somehow makes the shift away from tipping

Which it won't do as long as people are tipping, in fact, entirely new industries are being created with deliberate, engineered pressure to expand tipping culture into them.

There's a very good argument that if you are opposed to tipping culture, as well as taking every opportunity to oppose public policy which supports and accommodated it, you ought not participate in it, which only reinforces and perpetuates it.

[ulisesrmzroche]

So the guy delivering your food who may not even speak English can go fuck himself right?

Not gonna be a very popular hill to die on

[fnord77]

that was my point

[djrobstep]

Americans sometimes seem unaware that tipping culture isn't universal.

Until I visited the US I'd never tipped in my life.

Tipping is a poor substitute for decent wages.

It's also very awkward. I remember going to a wedding with an open bar - drinks were free but then people were getting out cash anyway to tip the bartender even tho no payment was involved? It's very bizarre if you haven't grown up with it.

[Alupis]

If the bar tender only handed you a beer bottle - sure, don't tip if you don't want to. Although you should, even if it's a single dollar (ie. proportional to what you are receiving).

But if you order some elaborate drink that takes time and skill to craft - you should tip as a way of saying "thanks for the effort". That was the original idea of tipping, after all - ensuring, measuring and providing direct feedback of service quality.

[cmdshiftf4]

>If the bar tender only handed you a beer bottle... you should (tip), even if it's a single dollar

Have you ever stepped back and had a look at some of these paradigms you've been conditioned to adhere to?

[ubercow13]

I always wonder about non-customer-facing workers at small businesses. Who tips them?

[dragonwriter]

> I always wonder about non-customer-facing workers at small businesses.

In places that have mandated tip sharing, the same people tipping the customer-facing workers (and, again, this isn't "small-business" specific; chain restaurants are no different than independents here), in places that don't, no one does. Tipping culture is more industry-focussed than scale-of-business focussed.