[Trasmatta]

> I've tried to eat out more often, even leaving less or no tips in order to feel more incentivized to not eat at home.

If you live in the US this is a real jerk move. You're talking about how you're getting richer, but then aren't willing to tip the service worker making less than minimum wage?

[cgriswald]

No service working in the United States is making less than minimum wage unless their employer is breaking the law regardless of whether you tip.

[alistairSH]

True. The wages laws that govern service staff is generally written as a conditional, where the employee earns the greater of:

1. Standard minimum wage 2. Some value less than minimum wage + tips

If the employee doesn't break minimum wage by adding their wage+tips, the employer has to make them whole. And then likely cut their hours and force them to look for other work.

[minikites]

>the employer has to make them whole

No they don't, because what are you going to do about it? Hire a lawyer on your minimum wage salary (assuming you even know you're getting cheated)?

[cgriswald]

Every employee in the United States can file complaints with their state labor board and the U.S. Department of Labor Wage and Hour Division.

[minikites]

If this is both true and effective, why is wage theft still extremely prevalent?

[kube-system]

Because people who are in a position to be earning those kinds of wages heavily correlate with other situational factors (social, educational, legal, etc.) which may prevent them from reporting the violations. And, the employers who tend to engage in wage theft are generally small businesses, which there are a ton of.

[minikites]

Would it shock you to find out that many, many employers break the law?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Wage_the...

https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-th...

To everyone: please tip. It is in fact very likely that any given restaurant is not and would not make up the difference in pay for an under-tipped employee.

[cgriswald]

> It is in fact very likely that any given restaurant is not and would not make up the difference in pay for an under-tipped employee.

Your sources do not support this claim.

[minikites]

Here, let me quote from the article I linked:

>Survey research shows that well over two-thirds of low-wage workers have been the victims of wage theft.

"Over two-thirds" means you are more likely than not to eat at a restaurant that has cheated its employees.

[cgriswald]

I followed some of the links and could not find a primary source for the data. (Links were either broken, redirected to the same page, or lead to other secondary sources.) So please link that if you've got it.

> "Over two-thirds" means you are more likely than not to eat at a restaurant that has cheated its employees.

No. It doesn't. It means that, in their entire lifetime as employees of any number of employers, two-thirds of employees, at least once, experienced wage theft in some form.

That's a much different statement and says nothing at all about whether those employees were robbed of overtime, asked to work for free, or their employers claimed tip credits for tips the employees didn't receive.

[minikites]

>That's a much different statement and says nothing at all about whether those employees were robbed of overtime, asked to work for free, or their employers claimed tip credits for tips the employees didn't receive.

These are all examples of "cheating employees", I'm glad we agree.

[FpUser]

Taking care of their employees should be a business of their employer. They should not transfer their problems over to me: a customer. Sure I can tip if someone did an extraordinary job and impressed me but the last thing I should have on my mind is that If I do not tip then the person would go hungry.

[minikites]

That's an admirable goal, but it is manifestly untrue in the present-day USA.

[gtrhtrhtrhtr]

I don't agree. I don't like tipping and so I do not eat out usually because of this.

Right now I understand that we need to do our part to help small businesses, so I'm making an effort and tricking my brain into eating out by not tipping. This is where I want to put my money: I think it's my responsibility if small businesses are going to survive, I don't think it's my responsibility if workers are not paid well.

[majormajor]

Why do you value the small business owner more than the small business employee?

[gtrhtrhtrhtr]

I value the employee, I think they'll do fine with minimum wages, but they won't do fine if the small business goes down.

[minikites]

One of the reasons some people visit restaurants is to feel powerful in relation to their server and a big part of that is making them "perform" for a good tip.

[alistairSH]

I don't like tipping and so I do not eat out usually because of this.

This doesn't really make sense. Without tipping (expected nationally), the cost of labor would just have to be priced directly into the food. Instead of a $15 burger, it would be $20.

If you don't like to spend money on dining out, fine, but it has little to do with tipping and more to do with being frugal.

[ketamine__]

> This doesn't really make sense. Without tipping (expected nationally), the cost of labor would just have to be priced directly into the food. Instead of a $15 burger, it would be $20.

So basically it does make sense because it is easier if the price is the total cost.

[gtrhtrhtrhtr]

I disagree, tipping is stupid because it is based on percentages. Why should I give more tip because I bought a more expensive item? Sorry but we don't have to agree, forcing tipping on others is an asshole move.

[learc83]

Tipping severs is the way our society works. By eating at table service restaurant you are implying that you are going to pay the server despite the fact that you have no intention to do so. It’s no different than your manager dicking you around by saying you’ll probably get a raise if you work overtime despite having no intention to do so.

Rationalize all you want, but you’re acting like a huge asshole.

If you are morally opposed to tipping, eat takeout or at a counter serve restaurant.

[Alupis]

You say you don't eat out because you don't like tipping - and that businesses should just pay their employees more so you don't have to tip. OK fine - but doesn't that just result in a meal costing what it does now + tip? How is that any different?

Actually, it would cost more than just standard price + tip as you funnel the money into the business first before it hits the employee's bank account.

> Right now I understand that we need to do our part to help small businesses, so I'm making an effort and tricking my brain into eating out by not tipping

This logic is absurd. Both small businesses and employees of small businesses are being crushed right now. Support them both or don't use their services.

You deciding to eat out is consuming time from the wait staff (who often tips out bussers and kitchen staff too). That time could have been spent serving another table that decides to tip.

You are literally taking money away from small business employees by continuing this behavior. You are punishing them for serving you a meal. How is that appropriate?