[collyw]

I was about to ask if intermittent fasting would have the same effects as I get the impression that its a healthier way of getting into ketosis.

(When I look, I don't see negative effects associated with IF, and I do with keto diets. The research changes a lot and the conclusions don't seem definitive, but I thought someone on here might have an educated opinion on the matter).

[ypcx]

In my personal case I'm not really able to enter and maintain good ketosis levels without also fasting intermittently.

Intermittent fasting is key to enabling me to lower my caloric input because of the momentum of the fasting phase carried over into the eating phase, e.g. smaller stomach and more effective metabolism. I currently fast about 12 hours per day (including the sleep phase), which doesn't sound like much but with the lowered caloric input it's actually pretty good. I can go longer easily when the circumstances demand it, and after crossing 16 hours I actually stop experiencing hunger completely. I plan to extend the fasting periods in the future, if easy and convenient.

As for whether ketosis is necessary - I believe I would not be able to fast intermittently without it, or at least not comfortably, which is necessary for any lifestyle change to be sustainable.

I'm not aware of any negative effects of being in ketosis for prolonged periods of time, and quite the opposite. I don't crave sugary foods anymore, and I dislike anything with even a trace of sweetness. I was surprised to discover how good the body really is at detecting what food is good for it, once in ketosis.

My main food sources currently are avocado, egg, tahini and drinks based on almond or walnut milk. I'm also using vitamin and mineral supplements, mostly in fluid forms. I'm 42 and I wish I had known about keto as early in my life as possible, not when I was forced to explore it due to declining health. Ketosis gives you a stable level of energy through the day and allows you to fully focus on life and the tasks at hand.

[dhimes]

As an N of one, I present my situation:

Since mid-January this year I have been fasting intemittently. I have zero calories before 5PM, and I am usually in bed by 10. I exercise most weeks between 4 and six days, but only two or so are "vigorous" for me. My workouts are mid-day.

When I eat, I eat normally for me, which is lower carb and higher protein, but not (knowingly) keto or anything.

I have lost about 10 pounds.

I just got my blood lab results, and they are the worst numbers I have ever seen. Highest fasting glucose (borderline diabetic, a rise of 14 points or so from memory), highest cholesterol (doc's gonna make me take meds if it doesn't come down).

I've done this before, but wouldn't I would "only" wait until 2, and I got bad (but not this bad) results as well. I decided to try again, making my eating window truly shorter, but alas...

I was devastated by the results. Total bummer.

[tvjunky]

Curious about your food choices. I've been experimenting with IF. More specifically I'd call it more like timed eating because the bulk of my fasting hours and during sleep. I'm down 20 lbs with solid numbers. As a side note I have some genetic factors as well and trying to counter those.

[dhimes]

A lot of lean protein and vegetables; eggs (3 egg-whites + 1 whole egg is a common combination for me), chicken, fish, broccoli, etc. I wasn't trying for low-carb, but low-carb made it easier to stave off cravings. I was paying attention to calories more than anything else.

I do drink, however, straight liquor. Rarely to excess, but also rarely fewer than 2 drinks (almost always 2-3 drinks an evening).

[wtetzner]

Why not just eat the whole eggs? The fat in the yolks is really good, assuming you're getting pasture-raised eggs.

[shitgoose]

Same here, 10 kg down very quickly. Now weight is fixed at 80kg no matter what I eat. The only difference is when I eat.

[zadokshi]

Same, I went from 95kg to 80kg in a few months, then I got stuck at 80kg for a few months on keto. But then all of a sudden I dropped to 72kg in a few weeks (it was such an odd and rapid drop I freaked out and went to the doctors to get checked out)

[ypcx]

>Since mid-January this year

That's a sample too short, a lot of that can be the momentum carried over from whatever you have been doing previously. You have to understand that as a carb/sugar eater, you may have effectively destroyed your body to the point when it's much harder for it to digest nutrients from food (e.g. fatty liver). And/or you may have a starting diabetes.

Before jumping into the meds death spiral, check Dr. Berg's videos on YouTube, and I'm sure you'll find a way forward. When your body is broken, nutrition isn't a simple thing, trust me, I know.

[dhimes]

Thank you. I'll do it.

[lanternslight]

Reduce your protein and increase your fat intake. Ideally, 80-90% of your calories should be from fat. Excess protein is converted to glucose.

[dhimes]

Will that cause a problem with cholesterol?

[shitgoose]

"I have zero calories before 5PM"

Did you mean after 5PM?

Other than weight loss, do you feel any differently (body, mind)? I have started IF last fall. Similar diet - low carb, higher protein. I also had considerable weight loss, but no impact on blood quality.

[dhimes]

No- before. I eat between 5pm and 10pm. I guess I feel better. With placebo effect and whatnot it’s hard to know. My workouts took a hit initially but eventually got back to their normal intensity.

[wirrbel]

when was your last test before the one you had?

[lubonay]

That's a very reasonable question - for all we know, the numbers might have been even worse!

[dhimes]

Indeed- it was about a year prior.

[wirrbel]

If you are refering to the HbA1c for the characterization of being prediabetic, take into account that it is an estimator that averages over 8-12 weeks.

Don't confuse Keto, etc. as "high protein", its primarily a very low carb diet, "moderate protein" and "high fat". Too much protein also isn't ideal for Type 2 diabetes or the various stages that lead up to it. One thing that surprised me was for example, how Whey protein can also spike up blood sugar (so much for post-workout whey drinks, etc.)

I recommend the books and videos of Dr. Jason Fung on fasting, as I think he makes a compelling case for the layman how fasting varieties can be beneficial. He is a nephrologist, and since kidney issues are common with diabetes patients, he had many diabetes patients in his office and had good succes with them bettering their condition using fasting methods.

Obligatory: I am not a doctor and you should not swap out medical supervision for random internet advice, but Dr. Jason Fung is definitely worth checking out.

Ok, I hope that wasn't too much of unsolicited advice for you. I wish you all the best and hope that you can get on top of things which whatever method works for you.

[hanniabu]

> In my personal case I'm not really able to enter and maintain good ketosis levels

How do you know if you've entered ketosis or what the levels are?

[ypcx]

I test both via keto urine strips and via keto breath analyzer. But when you are on a strong keto, you simply know it, you can feel it by the increased amounts of body and brain energy, mental clarity. Also your urine is more yellow and has a more specific odor.

[wtetzner]

Not the OP, but I've been using this to test my blood for ketones: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0789G8KTG/

[wirrbel]

I do water fasting (rather "bone broth fasting" like Dr. Jason Fung advocates in his talks on youtube and in his books), and also have done and will do keto when I am not fasting.

I am not quite sure about the "health" class. So roughly speaking I am obese and I do think with every 3 kilograms I loose per month, I am healthier. So keto as a tool for loosing weight is really without a doubt healthy. The correlations between being overweight and associated risks are MUCH stronger than the correlations between food and associated risks.

Now, if you dig deeper into books on keto and fasting by doctors, you see how fragile certain conclusions are that are now the consensus opinion in nutritional science. I am a data-scientist, trained biophysicist and I know I am not an epidemiologist and not a biologist, but I can tell "creative statistics" apart from not-suspicious ones, and a lot of central nutritional science studies that triggered the fat-fear seem to be highly deficient from a statistical perspective, hardly proving any causality.

So I tend to be rather sceptical about dietary advice after 1950 unless it has been (a) shown in humans and not just in experiments with animals (b) based on studies that do interventions, i.e. change the behavior of humans rather than just surveying or asking what people do.

What I also find fascinating is, how the fasting community and the keto community often reach similar conclusion while actually being kind of different communities advocating for different "resolutions".

Anyway, what I was trying to say: If keto and fasting helps the normal weight range at steady 3kg/month, I do think it is healthy for me, when I am in a normal weight range, the priorities may change from "weight loss is really important" to other aspects.

[cagenut]

Your body goes into ketosis when it "runs out" of blood-sugar for long enough. It usually takes me 2 - 3 days of staying below 30 net grams (i'm a larger guy, for many people it requires going below 20).

IF can be a part of that, in terms of helping you to control your eating and making the time-period at the end of those 2 - 3 days happen maybe a half-day sooner, but fundamentally it doesn't change carbs are carbs.

Also you might find the relationship almost works the other way. Ketosis makes IF much easier. I haven't eaten breakfast in years. I don't even really consider that an IF regimen as much as like... once you get rid of the habit for a month or two you completely don't miss it and forget why you bothered.

[koolba]

Vigorous exercise, in particular sustained cardio, is the surest way to burn through your glycogen stores. Combined with intermittent fasting and a near-zero carb diet, it’s the fastest way to resume ketosis.

[jvanderbot]

Yes. Perhaps stronger effects w IF, according to this.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fasting-diet-ketosis-brain-b...