[smel]

I'm native arabic speaker too, and can tell you that your statement is far from the truth. Arabic is far more simple language with fewer exceptions than english or french (I love/speak french :D).

There are only 3 tenses: Also it's derivational language which mean once you learn about a verb you actually learn about the whole lexical family of the verb.

In english for example you have : Book, Author, Library In Arabic (kitaab, kaatib, maktaba) which is the same root (k,t,b) and with simple rules you can discover all those words or even invent them if not used previously The big problem of arabic as language is arabic societies/people/... but the language itself is a gem.

https://blogs.transparent.com/arabic/the-arabic-morphologica...

[int_19h]

> In english for example you have : Book, Author, Library In Arabic (kitaab, kaatib, maktaba) which is the same root (k,t,b) and with simple rules you can discover all those words or even invent them if not used previously

I don't see why the word for "author" has to be derived from the same root as "book", logically speaking. There are a great deal more things than books that have authors.

The reason why this particular root that you've picked produces differences between "book" and "library" in most European languages is because they had two major sources from which their roots were borrowed: Latin (where "book" is "liber") and Greek (where "book" is "biblio"); and both roots were borrowed and used in this case. However, for most roots, the principle is exactly the same in European languages - a single common root produces a whole family of words, and new words are derived as needed. It's not something that's unique to Arabic.

[kissickas]

> There are a great deal more things than books that have authors

And those things all have their own words for their authors, as well.

poetry - sha3r

poet - shaa3r

composition (the noun of the verb) - ta2leef

composition (the thing written) - mu2allaf

composer - mu2allef

letter, correspondance - resala

messenger - rasool

correspondent (like a news reporter) - murasel

You can also use kaateb for the author of a letter or perhaps a poem, but not really a symphony. Just like you wouldn't use author. Pardon the use of the numbers in words - it's how people represent letters that aren't in English in Arabic.

[int_19h]

So then the correct translation was "writer"?

Note, by the way, that your examples showcase the same pattern in English - the author of "poetry" is a "poet", the author of a "composition" is a "composer" etc.

[kissickas]

Yes, kaateb can be translated as "author" or "writer" or "scribe" etc.

I was more replying to your comment than continuing GP's argument, but I believe what they were trying to say is that the system used in Arabic is very regular and predictable. If I didn't know English, I might say that the person who writes poems is a poemer. Or a poetrier. I might try to use "to poetry" as a verb.

I wouldn't really make that argument because through learning Esperanto I realized that a truly logical language would make nearly no sense. You can't just invent any word you like in Esperanto, although it is sometimes billed that way, and you can't in Arabic. But at least it's very predictable and, at least, you can derive the meanings of an already-written text fairly easily.

The problem (touched upon in the OP) is that each dialect has its own domain of vocabulary, so even apart from foreign/native language influences, the classical vocabulary that sticks around in each dialect varies widely from one place to another. Some people use the verb for "work" to mean "work" and some use the verb for "preoccupy oneself" to mean "work."

[mohamedattahri]

Indeed, many languages have a concept of root from which words must be derived. In Arabic, it’s much more pronounced, because knowing the root of a word is essential to being able to use the language effectively.

2 of may favorite things about the language: 1/ fun fact is that the vast majority of verbs have only 3 letters in them 2/ Pronouns make a distinction between one, two or more people, and even indicate whether the subject is present or absent. I find it extremely powerful.

[posterboy]

The concept word is not clearly defined. As a programmer it seems natural to assume that a word is a short series of bits. Anything else is composition. Why is of a word but -ed isn't? ab- is from the same origion, as in aberrant. The difference isn't completely arbitrary. Bio Logy might as well be two wods. The keyword is lexicalization and how words are learned. Obviously, shorter words are easier to discover.

[avaika]

I'd argue that Arabic is simpler than English. It might have been simpler for you as your were the native :) For me Arabic and English both are foreign and I can definitely tell you that English was much simpler to learn.

While words "transformation" might seem cool and convenient, there is no common rule on how to predict final meaning.

Also the pronunciation is very (VERY) important. One tiny mistake and you will end up telling your girlfriend that you have a gift from deep of your dog (كلب/ Kalb) instead of deep of your heart (قلب / K'alb).

[smel]

you're right ! and a little bit biased because pronunciation is important for all languages out there I see the same issue with french foreign speakers too.

In Arabic pronunciation is straight forward, in english pronunciation depends on each word (a,u,o) can have a different sounds (depends in which word used) and the emphasis also is a dark magic :D there are no such exceptions in Arabic

Arabic can be difficult but simple. English can be easy but complex.

[abol3z]

I agree with you, I even think that Arabic speakers are the best at understanding foreigners speech.

As he pointed, you might tell your girlfriend this is a gift from your dog (كلب) instead of heart (قلب), but I'm sure that if she is a native speaker, she'll understand correctly.

I've seen the same mistakes happen in other languages, but the native speaker usually miss the meaning.

I think this relates to the fact that Arabic spoken language has a vast number is unique dialects, and they mostly understand each others dialects, unlike other languages that differs between dialects mostly in spelling sounds.

[hedvig]

And language aside, a partner that is willing to meet you halfway in understanding is a great partner. :)

[afarrell]

> in english pronunciation depends on each word (a,u,o) can have a different sounds (depends in which word used)

It is also highly regional. Someone from Glasgow pronounces things rather differently to someone from Brighton.

[bunderbunder]

Is it as regional as Arabic, though?

I don't speak Arabic, but my understanding is that someone from Morocco can't necessarily hold an easy conversation with someone from Qatar.

Whereas, I can name very few varieties of English that aren't easily mutually intelligible with basically all of the rest of the English-speaking world - patois and gullah, for example.

[Salamat]

In my work, I have colleagues from all Arabic countries among others, I talk to people of Morroco and my Arabic is more Levante, with no issue at all. Syrian dialect, along with Egyptian, has gained a lot of ease in the region due to popular tv series and movies (more Egyptian than Syrian ones)I predict that the variations will be reduced since the differences grow out of old geographical barriers that gave distinctions and differences. There is a lesser strict everyday language that is very simple yet formal Arabic, as in the news, be it TV or online. So please look further before jumping to conclusions, as in the region you would read the news regardless of the geographical aspect of the source. If an Arabic website in Morroco has a compelling news story, or article speakers of Arabic in the whole region and abroad will read it very comfortably.

[jki275]

The difference is that English words don't really change meanings based on pronunciation. Words do have many pronunciations, but the meaning remains the same.

[davidivadavid]

Words don't change meaning based on pronunciation. They're different words.

[mbel]

Oh really, what about 'lead' and 'lead'?

[t-3]

They will never be confused because context supplies the clues.

[jeremysmyth]

This is often true, but far from universal. Oftentimes there are differences in verb and noun (as with "lead" and "lead"), or transitive vs. intransitive verbs ("seconded"), but occasionally we have problems with two nouns or two verbs with the same form:

"I read that magazine": do I mean regularly, or that I have done in the past?

"The messenger wrote down Lincoln's address": was that his home, or his speech?

The context would need to be quite explicit to work around problems such as this.

[beat]

If context supplied enough clues, grammar correction software would work much better than it does.

[umanwizard]

What do you mean?

“Dog” and “cat” have different pronunciations in English, and therefore mean different things.

[jki275]

Dog and Cat are different words.

There are many word pairs in many languages that are written exactly the same way but have different pronunciations and different meanings.

[umanwizard]

You are thinking of the written language as the fundamental thing. Actually spoken language is fundamental, and writing is an imperfect representation of it.

The verb "lead" and the noun "lead" (i.e., the metal) are two different words, pronounced differently. The fact that they are spelled the same is just an example of how the English writing system doesn't encode the English language perfectly accurately.

[eudora]

That's a totally different letter, not a different pronunciation..

It's like confusing thumb with sum

[posterboy]

... which likely happens as well.

[simias]

I love learning languages and learning about languages. I considered seriously learning Arabic but I eventually decided against it mainly because, as the parent points out, there seem to be many variations between countries and also between formal, literary arabic and the spoken dialects.

Given that learning the language (in any form) is probably going to be a huge challenge the prospect of spending years studying the idiom only to end up in an arabophone country and not being able to fluently converse with anybody felt discouraging.

I eventually decided that I would focus on learning Russian instead, an other very difficult but obviously completely different languages (although it also features declensions and relatively simple conjugations minus the aspect thingy).

Do you think I was mistaken?

[nbvkkiauhvcr]

Even though there are many dialects, nobody will misunderstand you. And, beyond that, it’s easy for everyone to shift to using a more formal Arabic in order to communicate with you.

[kkarakk]

yes but you are judged based on the dialect you speak, i have experienced cases where i wasn't taken seriously by businessmen coz i spoke a turkish variant of arabic in saudi arabia

[Cyph0n]

True, but North African dialects in general are not understood at all by Middle Easterners. Further, some of the Gulf dialects (e.g., Iraqi, Omani, Yemeni) can be hard to understand.

[eudora]

You would just learn Egyptian or Lebanese arabic, everyone would understand you.

Written (formal) arabic is a different story though, I think that's what's commonly taught for non arabic people

[Cyph0n]

I would add Syrian to that list.

But even within these dialects, there are regional dialects that might be difficult to understand even for native speakers from that same country.

For example, Tunisian Arabic can (roughly) be divided into northern and southern dialects. I've met people in the north who think I'm from Libya because of some words that are shared with southern Tunisian Arabic. Tunisia is a relatively small country, so imagine the variation in dialects in Egypt!

If you're interested in learning Arabic, don't let this scare you! The "generic" Egyptian, Lebanese, and Syrian dialects will easily be understood by most Middle Easterners and a fair chunk of North Africans.

[jnbiche]

> The "generic" Egyptian/Lebanese/Syrian dialect will easily be understood by most Middle Easterners and a fair chunk of North Africans.

But note that Egyptian Arabic is very different from Lebanese and Syrian Arabic (which both are in the Levantine Arabic family).

[Cyph0n]

Definitely! I was just pointing out that these three dialects are the most universally understood, primarily due to their domination of Arabic music and film/TV.

[DigitalHobo]

> Arabic is far more simple language with fewer exceptions than english or french

Would you say this is true of spoken english as well? By that I mean, a large amount of the difficulty involving english involves our train-wreck of spelling rules, spoken english on the other hand tends to be reasonably easy to become functional in (apart from idioms). Would you say that Arabic is simpler than purely spoken english as well?

[mohamedattahri]

I would say that English is somewhat hard, mostly because of the exceptions in the past participate, words that are NOT - edit - spelled phonetically, making it hard to learn new words, and there are many tenses - not as many as in French, most of which are misused when casually speaking.

[t-3]

English spelling is a feature, not a bug. You can tell the origin of nearly any word by it's spelling, and knowing that gives you clues to pronunciation and grammar. If you're ignorant of latin and more modern European languages it might be difficult though.

[dorfsmay]

But spelling keeps changing. What's the origin behind "check", as in checkbook?

[isolli]

It reminds me of Czech, where a fixed list of prefixes can be used to modify the meaning of any verb, with very creative possibilities!

https://mluvtecesky.net/en/grammar/prefixes

[skocznymroczny]

Same in Polish, with some curse words providing very flexible bases for every situation.

[memsom]

Do you know of a resource that shows pictograms for Polish like the one the parent shows? My partner is Polish and I’m slowly acquiring the language, butI have always struggled to visualise the meanings of the Polish equivalent prefixes

[mbel]

Most of them are the same as in Polish. The "prefixes" are called "przyimek" (plural przyimki) in Polish, try googling for that. Here's an example: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/73/ad/c8/73adc83b89ba15c7a79f...

[v_lisivka]

Same in many other indo-european languages. See Language tree: https://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/196.jpg

[kkarakk]

yeah sure at an academic level arabic is tres beautiful just like french but realistically none of that translates to everyday spoken arabic to the point where you have to learn a different dialect based on who you want to sound like - a denizen of a country, a foreigner or a bedouin. arabic is one of those languages where there are so many local modifications going on it's insane amounts of effort to be known as "fluent" and "understandable". people in arabia even use emojis differently for crissakes

[babayega2]

"In english for example you have : Book, Author, Library In Arabic (kitaab, kaatib, maktaba) which is the same root (k,t,b)"

I see might not be difficult for me to learn it since I know Swahili (the most commonly spoken language in East Africa, which has Arab influence) since those words are pronounced respectively: Kitabu(book), Katibu(secretary), Maktaba(library).

Arab is not really complicated. Trust me, I'm accustomed to more troublesome dialects in Africa.

[namanyayg]

The translation is Book, Author, Library; (kitaab, kaatib, maktaba); respectively.

[smel]

Good catch ! Thank you