[radicaledward]

I believe in many cases it is well documented that obesity isn't caused by a lack of self-control. However that knowledge is simply not accepted by the general population. I would guess that it is difficult for people to accept this for the same reason that rich people have difficulty accepting that poverty is commonly not the fault of the poor. We may even be able to generalize these problems to all forms of victim blaming.

[buckbova]

Everyone I have ever known or seen that goes on one of those bootcamp style exercise programs loses dramatic weight. Every single person.

There's something about working your ass off everyday for an hour with resistance and cardio that works.

Everyone I have ever known or seen that went to actual bootcamp loses dramatic weight too, whether be army or marines.

Yes there might be exceptions for some with rare illnesses, but let's not throw out good common sense because of a small percentage of people.

[radicaledward]

I'm unsure how your response indicates that obesity is a self-control problem. Participating in a camp for however long and dramatically changing food intake is bound to create results. But if people could get the same results on their own then they wouldn't need the camps in the first place.

In addition, the group of people that are aware that this type of service is available, and that can afford to take multiple days off work to go to a bootcamp exercise program and pay for the program, is a unique portion of the human population with significant commonalities in genetic markers, cultural backgrounds, and many other areas. Their accomplishments should not be used as an indicator for all of humanity (and of course neither should the events described in the original article).

For the person below who asked for references: Unfortunately I don't keep a file of research on obesity because I don't have the problem myself. So I can't directly point to the things I remember reading. But that is also why I started my comment with "I believe".

[UnoriginalGuy]

> Everyone I have ever known or seen that goes on one of those bootcamp style exercise programs loses dramatic weight. Every single person.

I'm assuming you mean TV show. I doubt you know a great many people that go on an "exercise style bootcamp" personally...

> Everyone I have ever known or seen that went to actual bootcamp loses dramatic weight too, whether be army or marines.

Indeed because in basic training you don't get to pick your own meals and you're also limited to a set number of meals a day. Anyone would lose weight if someone else was controlling exactly what they could eat.

> here's something about working your ass off everyday for an hour with resistance and cardio that works.

Also the fact you think exercise contributes to significant weight loss (as opposed to diet changes, which do) suggest that you may not be very well informed in general.

An hour of cardio is one Big Mac worth of calories. It is insignificant.

[buckbova]

> I'm assuming you mean TV show. I doubt you know a great many people that go on an "exercise style bootcamp" personally...

They offer a bootcamp program at my office. I have a friend who is a personal trainer. I have relatives who have done bootcamp exercise programs. I drive by one of these every day and see people flipping tires.

> Indeed because in basic training you don't get to pick your own meals and you're also limited to a set number of meals a day. Anyone would lose weight if someone else was controlling exactly what they could eat.

You've obviously never trained hard for anything. At some point you can't consume enough calories to counter the metabolism jump from the hard-core training.

> An hour of cardio is one Big Mac worth of calories. It is insignificant.

That's why I said "cardio and resistance", which you conveniently left off. Yes an hour on a stationary bike does very little, but an hour of intense physical exertion daily will transform a person.

[dragonwriter]

> Everyone I have ever known or seen that goes on one of those bootcamp style exercise programs loses dramatic weight. Every single person.

I've seen people lose weight, I've seen people not. Most people I've seen do it for the first time lose weight, but most of those who choose to do it and are doing it for the first time are otherwise-healthy people with high body fat.

> Everyone I have ever known or seen that went to actual bootcamp loses dramatic weight too, whether be army or marines.

Everyone I knew at the time they went to military boot camp gained weight; lost body fat though.

[emodendroket]

Of course, that's not really what's interesting, since most people care about keeping the weight off for an extended period of time, and not whether they can yo-yo back and forth between heavy and less-heavy.

[Zergy]

> I believe in many cases it is well documented that obesity isn't caused by a lack of self-control.

Please show me the documentation because nearly everything I have read is to the contrary. More specifically I am interested if there are cases where someone eats less than their TDEE and doesn't lose weight or a case where eating at TDEE is unhealthy for some reason.

[UnoriginalGuy]

I have no idea what TDEE is, I assume you mean BMR[0]. Also your post is highly confusing, your first sentence suggests you have evidence that it is all about self control (none provided) but then you say "more specifically" you're talking about BMR/TDEE which is a calculation of your total calorie burn for the day and has nothing to do with the mental elements of obesity/weight gain.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate

[Zergy]

Please don't be condescending when you don't know the basic terminology for the topic being discussed especially when the info is a Google search away.

TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure) = BMR + Energy expended in a day.

It is very clear concept. Have the self control to master the mental elements and eat less calories than your TDEE and you lose weight. My question do you have research/evidence that disputes this? In my opinion as long as the truth is that being overweight is caused by eating more food than you need, the mentality of "fatty has no self control" is reasonable.

It was certainly true of me 40lbs ago.

[UnoriginalGuy]

> Please don't be condescending when you don't know the basic terminology for the topic being discussed especially when the info is a Google search away.

The only people using "TDEE" are sketchy fitness websites. There is no wikipedia article on the term, and no legitimate medical or scientific sources.

Some studies have used the abbreviation TEE but even then saying BMR would have been clearer and is a well recognised medical term/abbreviation.

The first thing I did was Google TDEE, the first half dozen results are small gyms, or tiny fitness calculators. If you want people not to question your terminology then use more standard terminology.

> My question do you have research/evidence that disputes this?

Do you have evidence that all of weight loss can be boiled down to "just self-control more?" There have been literally hundreds of studies spanning at least 40 years, few if any have found that the key to fighting addictions is just to "self-control more" otherwise we wouldn't have tons of alcoholics, drug addicts, obese people, and so on...

Maybe you should go work at a drug rehab clinic some time. Just keep saying to people "just learn to self control!" and see how far that gets you...

> In my opinion as long as the truth is that being overweight is cause be eating more food than you need to "fatty has no self control" holds true.

And your opinion ignores 40 years of psychological research into addiction. Congratulations to you.

[Zergy]

Can't reply to your latest comment.

Umm I never made a claim, you did and I asked you to back it up. You haven't even tried to do this instead you got defensive and launched personal attacks. So I'll take that as no you have no evidence to support your opinion. What evidence is there that being overweight is not an issue of regulating (this is the self control part) your caloric intake?

[UnoriginalGuy]

You haven't backed up a single one of your claims either, and you've made some pretty big claims ("nearly everything I have read is [that obesity is caused by lack of self-control]").

Also I didn't make a single personal attack. However you have (calling me "condescending"). See we can both play the victim card.