Ask HN: How do you transfer money internationally?

[BigCanOfTuna]

I'm an independent developer living living Canada with some clients in the US. I am paid monthly by cheque in $US and I am looking for the most cost effective way of converting that money to $CAD.

I'm interested in hearing about banks, brokers or even using something like bit coin as a means of currency exchange.

[throwaway_32948]

If you are converting large amounts and you are comfortable with purchasing and selling stocks online then a viable option is to use Norbert's gambit. This involves buying stock in companies traded on both Canadian and US exchanges, such as TD. You buy on one exchange (in your case on a US exchange), journal over to the other exchange, and then sell on other exchange. With the right online broker, journaling is automatic, and the entire process takes a few minutes to complete.

The final costs for the exchange are the trading fees (typically $10 per transaction for an online broker), the bid-ask spread, and any fluctuation in price between the buy and sell price (this can be in either direction---gains are taxable). Fluctuations over periods of a few minutes should be small for a highly liquid and stable stock. Always use limit orders to protect against any unusual events such as a flash crash.

There are lots of links found through a web search that describe the process and which Canadian online brokers make this easy to do. Also see http://www.northernraven.ca/financial/NGcalculator.php for a calculator that helps you select which stock to use. You want to select a stock with high liquidity (typically translates in a low bid-ask spread) and also a high unit price (to minimize the relative bid-ask spread cost).

The calculator at the link above shows that using today's prices to convert $10k can save about $80 versus a 1% currency conversion cost by using one of a number of stocks.

[ashray]

Why not just use a forex broker instead? Better rates, lower spreads, and higher liquidity. I would personally recommend Interactive Brokers.

[throwaway_32948]

For large transactions, I don't think it's true that rates are lower using a forex broker. In the limit of large transactions, Norbert's Gambit fees approach the bid-ask spread cost, which should be lower than any forex fee.

For example, according to the calculator, converting $100k saves about $350 versus a 0.3% conversion fee. Even converting $10k is cheaper than 0.3%. What are Interactive Brokers fees?

Another reason is that you don't have to transfer your money out of your accounts to a third party. Everything happens within your brokerage accounts.

[ashray]

Interactive Brokers is your own brokerage account, they are a regulated broker that offers Forex in addition to the other stuff (stocks, options, etc.).

I'm not 100% sure on the fees but they are not even close to 0.3% for forex. It's pretty much around $2 for most trades (their example covers: USD 50,000 daily volume for EUR = USD 2.00). Here are the details of the fees: https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=commission...

I think the reason IB charges are so low is because they deal with very large customers (banks, trading houses, etc.).

[throwaway_32948]

I looked into Interactive Brokers in more detail and you are correct that their fees are extremely low. They do not seem to charge a hidden "spread" fee, which is they usual method that forex traders hide their fees.

Based on some googling, there are secondary fees to consider such as minimum monthly fees and wire transfer fees, which might make it more or less attractive than alternatives depending on conversion amounts and regularity of transactions.

You mentioned that you use Interactive Brokers. Are you a Canadian citizen living in Canada that transfers money into and out of an Interactive Brokers account, exchanging USD and CAD?

[ashray]

No, I'm not Canadian living in Canada but I'm sure they have deposit options (local banks) in Canada. I have used it to convert small amounts of money before.

My email address is in my profile if you want to get in touch with more questions :)

[namenotrequired]

I'm honestly happy with Transferwise.com. You can get a free transfer with an invitation link, here's mine: https://transferwise.com/u/5d78

[kcorbitt]

I'm living in the UK and am paid in USD in the US. My wife and I investigated a bunch of options on how to bring the money to the UK as cheaply as possible and this was the best one we've found so far.

[coherentpony]

Hmmm, this person<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8137337> seems to have trouble doing exactly what you're doing. I wonder what the difference is.

[welly]

Seconding/thirding Transferwise. No complaints at all. Transfers, which I do monthly from the UK bank account to my Australian bank account, take between 3 and 5 days - usually 3 - and cost me very little - a couple of dollars, if that. You have some control over the currency conversion but I tend to leave it as it is. It's a great service.

[cik]

I have the same exact problem - living in Canada, with the same conditions. The reality is that it depends on the client, but here's what I do.

1. RBC has a USD account for $9/month. It's the cheapest in the country. For clients who insist on paying by ACH or cheque, that allows me to take USD inbound and hold them as needed.

2. I use a money changer (persepolis work, as do several on King Street) simply because the DIFFERENCE on the exchange can be as high as 1.5%, which is a little nuts. It's not automated (sadly), but companies like Freedman will pick up cheques from you - if you're not already downtown.

3. BTC + Coinbase. Some people are more than happy enough to pay in BTC. That in turn makes it easy to get other currencies without the pain.

#3 is by far the most cost effective - especially if you deal with the occasional non-US currency, as I do. The reality is that items #1+#2 combined helped me shave hundreds of dollars in exchange fees.

[patmcc]

Some credit unions have a lower monthly price - Vancity in BC, for example, has a USD business account for $3/month, waived if the balance is over $1500.

https://www.vancity.com/BusinessBanking/AccountsAndServices/...

But CUs are provincial entities, so that may not help you or the OP.

[bryanlarsen]

Is that for a linked account? I'm currently paying $0.50 per month for my CIBC USD account.

[mr_november]

$9 is for a USD business account - your $0.50 is likely for a personal account.

[footpath]

How are you currently depositing the US cheques? Both TD[1] and RBC[2] offer cross-border banking accounts, meaning that you can open a TD/RBC account in Canada and a TD/RBC account in the US and link them together, which should allow you to transfer funds between them at an optimum rate. You should be able to deposit US cheques with their smartphone apps. The issue with this approach is that you will have to maintain two bank accounts that you may have to pay monthly fees separately or maintain a minimum balance.

There should also be some banks in Canada (including TD and RBC) that offer US Dollar accounts, such as this one from Scotia[3] that seems to offer direct deposit, so maybe look those up as well.

Otherwise, foreign exchange sites like XE or Xoom may be an option as others have mentioned here, but I'm not too familiar with them.

[1]http://www.tdbank.com/personal/cross-border-banking.html [2]http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/cross-border-banking/index.html [3]http://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/0,,59,00.html

[cik]

I loved this idea - until I got more involved with it. Ultimately, business accounts have a limit on cheque deposit (at least here in Canada) whereby deposits from camera can't be for more that $3k in one shot, or $5k/month. At the very least, those are the rules laid down by CIBC and Royal. Ultimately this makes it pretty useless unfortunately.

On the flip side, if you find a way around this - especially for Royal, please let me know. It'd make my life a better place :)

[graeme]

I use RBC US (RBC Georgia) + XE Trade. Results in 1-2% more money. As long as you can wait 3 weeks to receive it, it's a good option. Transfers are free.

[psychometry]

I recommend XE as well. You can transfer using EFT, which saves you money in wire transfer fees a bank would normally charge you. You'll also get the best exchange rates from them.

[preinheimer]

We've also had tremendous success with XE.

Cheaper (lower fees + better exchange rate) than the bank, I can do it all online.

I've blogged about our experience here: http://blog.preinheimer.com/index.php?/archives/418-Paying-a...

[rb2k_]

I use three ways for Germany <--> US transfer:

1. Charles Schwab

I didn't know that before signing up, but my US Charles Schwab account has Banks all over the world that I can just wire money to, use my US account number as the "subject" of the transaction and it will magically appear in my US account. No fees, good exchange rate. That way I can get the Money from Germany to the US

2. Currencyfair(.com)

They have great exchange rates. You basically send money from Country A to one of their bank accounts in the country A area (e.g. SEPA) and then buy the foreign currency on their site (quick or marketplace) and transfer it out. Very minimal fees, great rates.

3. Debit Cards

My German credit card and my US debit cards (among them: Schwab) allow me to deduct money from ATMs for free. Both of them don't charge any fees (no cash advance for the German ones) and allow me to do so internationally.

I'd say just get a US Bank account from Charles Schwab the next time you're over there. I got mine 4 years ago without having a SSN or a work visa, just using my passport. I guess this is just possible if you do it "in branch" though.

[mmesh]

I've used TransferWise (https://transferwise.com) several times to move money from SEK to USD, but it seems they don't support CAD yet.

Super easy to get started, and very low fees.

[jasonkester]

I just tried this yesterday, but ran into a wall: To transfer USD to GBP, you need to get your bank to initiate an international wire transfer.

If I could remotely trigger a large international wire transfer from my bank, I wouldn't need a 3rd party service.

Living abroad, requests to transfer money are usually met with "just step into a branch and we'll take care of that". But my nearest branch is 2,000 miles away and I'm not planning to step anywhere near there in the next year or so.

The best I've gotten is "then just overnight us a notarized letter", which works, except for the part where Notaries are mostly a US invention so the few existing overseas ones will happily charge you $150 to put their stamp on the document. ... which the bank will then find some tiny flaw with (when the FedEx package trickles through their mailroom a week later) that can be corrected by simply overnighting a new notarized letter.

It's infuriating.

[hxc]

When I was with a smallish Credit Union (Langley Federal Credit Union) they would just have me write the note out, scan it and email it to them. Then I would call them about an hour later and it was authorized. They did charge a flat $12 fee.

[mseebach]

With all due respect, are you sure you're doing it right? The entire raison d'etre of Transferwise is cutting their bank-run international wire transfers out of the loop.

[jasonkester]

That's how they work everywhere except the US. For us, we have to do a BIC/IBAN transfer to an account in Estonia. (Just re-checked the instructions they mailed me yesterday to verify that's the case.)

If they had a US account you could do with ACH, life would be easy. But they don't.

[amouat]

I used TransferWise to move GBP to EUR. It worked well and was cheaper than the bank, but note that they take slightly more than they need for the transfer to hedge against currency fluctuations, then pay back the extra later. This was annoying as the bank charges me if I go over a certain number of transactions per month.

[abhididdigi]

I am surprised nobody here use XOOM (https://www.xoom.com)

[KevinBongart]

I've been using Xoom to send American dollars to France every two weeks for three years now, it works great, reliably, the interface simple, polished and offers a lot of useful features, the pricing is cheap and there's no surprise fees. Highly recommended!

[munimkazia]

I started working remotely a little while ago, and I decided to try Xoom based on a friend's suggestion. My employer had some issues with verifying the transaction when he was travelling, but it worked fine otherwise.

[vilius]

OT, but may be useful if someone is looking for cheap ways to transfer money within the EU. https://transfergo.com - offers transfers to bank accounts for a fixed fee of 2,5 GBP.

It works by issuing local payments, which are much cheaper. You make a local payment to TransferGo account in your country. In turn they use their foreign bank account to make local payment to your recipient.

[yrral]

I've heard co-workers using interactivebrokers to do so. I found a blog post about it here http://blog.plsoucy.com/2012/11/best-way-to-convert-usd-to-c...

The fees are essentially max($2.50, 0.01%) but there's some restrictions (min $10k deposit, $10 monthly fee)

[tsyd]

I've been happy with XE Trade (http://www.xe.com/xetrade/) for USD/CAD transactions.

[hellodevnull]

Back when it was beginning to get difficult to buy Bitcoin in the UK (when MtGox and Intersango stopped accepting bank transfers) I used TransferWise, a p2p currency exchange, to send money to European bank accounts as an alternative. For example, BitStamp was based in Slovenia, so I'd send money directly to their European account. Without a service like TransferWise I would have to spend £25 with every Bitcoin purchase (that's how much my bank charges for an EU transfer), versus £1 with TW.

Unfortunately now you can't even deposit into European bank accounts that are related to Bitcoin... but anyway it's a really cheap way of sending money, not all currencies are available yet though (no CAD) but keep an eye out.

https://transferwise.com/

[Someone1234]

I use a company called "XE Trade." It is an absolute nightmare to set up (due to all their anti-fraud stuff). However once you do it is pretty straight forward to utilise and they're paid via a "spread" (i.e. imperfect exchange rates) rather than a fee.

It appears cheaper than both PayPal and my bank, however it is up to you if the savings is worth the hassle of setting it up. Once it is set up you transfer money to their local bank account (within your origin country), and then at the destination country they deliver it via bank transfer from an account there, so you need a normal bank account in both source and destination (i.e. no Western Union style use).

I believe HSBC also offer free intercountry account transfers as long as you own both accounts.

[erikb]

The best strategy I (German) use with Chinese friends is giving money to one person in Germany and letting a family member of them transfer the corresponding amount inside China. This way you can save on most of the fees and your ability to transfer money basically gets down to how much Guanxi (relationship value) you have.

[statguy]

The good old hawala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala) :)

[myhf]

I used to use CurrencyFair, and loved the easy, fast, transparent process (with a view of how much money is available to buy/sell at each price point). But they closed to US residents.

Now I have to use XE Trade, and never really know how long a transfer will take or what exchange rate it will settle on.

[eduardo_f]

I'm very happy with Kantox for B2B transfers. It has a matching option that side-steps banks and brokers:

http://kantox.com/en/how-it-works-kantox

[shenoybr]

1) You could opt for a plain old wire transfer between accounts, I think the banks charge $15 for that, but its almost immediate. 2) Or you could deposit the check in your Canadian bank account. Although, in this case you'll have to wait for the banks to clear your check. 3) Or if you have a bank account in the US, you could use an online service like Xoom. https://www.xoom.com/canada/send-money

[tim333]

I use Interactive Brokers. I have an account with HSBC Canada and a UK account. It was the cheapest way I could find to transfer ~ $500k but might be overkill for smaller amounts.

[melvinmt]

I use Xoom.com every month to transfer money back "home" (US -> NL) and it's way cheaper than an international wire transfer ($5 vs $40) and more convenient too.

[MargotT]

Transferwise would be great for you. I've used it for a couple of years now transfering money from pounds to euros. It's super quick, cheap and easy to use. This service uses the exchange rate which is quoted on reuters and asks a tiny 0.5% fee.

With the below link you will get your first transfer for FREE:

http://transferwise.evyy.net/c/88623/126664/985

[pearkes]

BMO has American dollar accounts[1]. That way, you can convert only what you need. Or, when you feel is the best time due to rate fluctuations and so on.

Additionally, if you ever travel and spend money in the US, you can spend in US currency, again avoiding exchange rates.

[1]: http://www.bmo.com/home/personal/banking/bank-accounts/us-do...

[jdtb]

We're in this exact situation. Canadian Company with mostly US clients. We have a USD and CDN account through TD which allows us to deposit checks and receive wires in US funds if needed. From there we use TDFX to transfer funds between the two accounts as needed. TDFX gives pretty good rates on the exchange and there is no transfer fee. For example the spot rate I just got was 1.0916 USD --> CDN

[Sambdala]

If you can have both US and Canadian accounts, I'd deposit the USD in your US account and use TransferWise to get CAD which should save you on fees.

[Spoom]

I use CustomHouse ( http://onlinefx.westernunion.com/ ) to transfer money to my Canadian account when necessary. That said, I live in the US so I don't have to transfer a huge percentage of my income, just enough to pay my Canadian student loans and credit card.

I would look at the RBC USD accounts if I were you.

[ericol]

Bitcoins. I live in Argentina (yep, right) and work for an UK based company. I recently set on buying bitcoins in Europe (using localbitcoins.com) and them selling them to Argentinian buyers on the same site.

There's a huge gap between the regulated dollar rate and the street price, so the loss is negligible (I used to just extract the money from an ATM)

[JoshTriplett]

The simplest solution would be to find a Canadian bank that will accept check deposits denominated in USD. Second easiest would be to have banks in both countries, deposit into the US bank, transfer, and withdraw from the Canadian bank. In both cases, ideally you could set up direct deposit.

[vehementi]

I'll be in this situation soon and was hoping to be able to use Norbert's Gambit: http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2013/12/03/norberts-gambit-th...

[brentm]

I use FX Payments from American Express (https://fxpayments.americanexpress.com). It's "only" $35 per wire. It's a bit of a process to set up but works well once up and running.

[mlakewood]

I've found citibank, apart from thier not great website, have a pretty good deal. I have a US account and an Oz account and transferring between then is instantaneous. The obviously take a cut on the exchange rate, but its been pretty good IMHO.

[Lunatic666]

I'm looking for an affordable way to transfer money from Singapore to Germany, but so far the cheapest is sending the money to a VISA or Mastercard. It's fixed S$10 per transfer and it's instant transfer, very handy.

[refurb]

You live in Canada and get paid in USD? Just deposit the check in your bank. It take a while to clear (up to 30 days), but the big Canadian banks give pretty good exchange rates since they exchange a lot of USD -> CAD.

[HNJohnC]

" but the big Canadian banks give pretty good exchange rates "

Not this sadly.

[plsoucy]

They really don't (unless you compare them to PayPal, I guess). They take 2-3% of commission to convert your funds, which would mean that they charge you $200-$300 for currency exchange on a $10,000 payment.

If you want to convert your funds at a "Big" Canadian bank, please do so at Tangerine, which has the best rate I found (they take 1.45%) - otherwise, there are plenty of other suggestions in this thread that could help. The best rate will most certainly be with Interactive Brokers (max(0.01%, $2.50)), but the account set up is a bit tedious and they have a few restrictions.

[refurb]

Of course you have to comparison shop, I have no doubt some of the big banks will take advantage of the uninformed.

That said, it's much easier to convert USD to CAD in Canada, then CAD to USD in the US. I had an account at a small regional bank and if you were converting less than $100 of CAD, you'd be lucky if you got 2/3rds of the actual exchange rate.

[eswat]

For Canadians that have looked across all the banks, why did you choose the one you’re now with?

I have both a CAD & USD account with Tangerine but the lack of wire transfer is hurting now, so looking to switch over to another bank.

[aharonovich]

I do my best to stick to Paypal, since it has the majority of my international financial history it saves me the trouble of reconciling several accounts. If (when) they support Bitcoin/Ether it will be perfect.

[goodJobWalrus]

I have found the best one for GBP to CAD to be:

torfx.com

When I had actual physical cash that I needed to hand in, I found the best rates withL

http://www.interchangefinancial.com/

[kourt]

I have used ozforex.com.au for business; they have a consumer-oriented branch http://www.tranzfers.com/

[faster]

A friend of mine used ozforex.au while he was living in France, working for an American company, and wanted income to show up in his Australian bank account. He said it was quite painless.

[maaku]

Bitcoin.

When that is not an option, I use a bank that has zero foreign transaction fees, and refunded ATM fees. First Republic Bank's ATM refund account, in my case.

[Xophmeister]

BTC seems a bit volatile as a vehicle for transferring between currencies. I personally would want something much more stable if I were transferring any significant amount. If it was just on the order of holiday cash -- and it was convenient to find buyers and sellers -- then maybe, but it seems a lot of trouble to go to!

[maaku]

Volatility means that sometimes you make money on the float as well.

[marcosdumay]

Have you tried asking your bank manager?

Yes, there'll be fees, and it's not as interesting as bitcoin. But it's not a hard thing to do.

[mseebach]

He probably has, which is why he's now asking for a cost effective solution.

[marcosdumay]

Does he want to transfer it in $10 transactions or what?

Even here in Brazil, where external commerce is completely disincetivised, my bank asks $50 a transaction (the most expensive one).

[mseebach]

$50 might be the best price on offer, but I would consider it infuriating to pay a $50 tax to the bank on each and every pay check on top of the 3% currency spread they probably already charge.

$1200/year in bank fees just to get paid every two weeks? It's real money in comfy western Europe, in Brazil it's surely a fortune?

[canterburry]

Western Union: One of america's oldest companies and does one thing only: money transfers all over the world!

[alagappanr]

I've been using Xoom for money transfer to India. For amounts larger than 1000$, there is no fee.

[himanshuy]

I use India specific services which are ICICIDirect and XOOM.

[Thiz]

Bitcoin or any cryptocoin.

[chroman]

I use Paypal + Payoneer.

[fractallyte]

I used Paypal once (UK -> Canada). The rates were better than any bank could offer, and I have a verified account. The transfer - not a large amount - went without a hitch.

But then a week later, out of nowhere, my account was suddenly 'limited', with the requirement that I send a copy of my passport and latest bank statement to the US. I enquired and got a canned response.

I have not complied. Two years later, my account is still locked, and there is no way to shut down my account. Never used Paypal since; and I never again will. I hate them intensely.