[techboots]

Looks like FB jumped the shark if they're employing guys who leave for 4 months, or gals like Sheryl Sandberg who leaves work 5pm every day.

I get it - yes, it's nice and wonderful. But... Frankly, I wouldn't want to work with coworkers like this. Entrepreneurs don't make silly justifications like this -- only employees play this political game. And quite frankly, I wouldn't put up with actions like this - I'd quit in a heartbeat, or tone down my work time as well to match. Hey, just because I don't have a kid, doesn't mean I shouldn't get time off - why punish me for that. Not fair. I'll take my time off to work on my own projects.

If you have a family, it may just be better to sit out of the game for a while rather than dragging the work quality of everyone else around you down.

[leothekim]

You think your coworkers drag you down? You think you're punished for not having kids? You're comparing having children to entrepreneurship? If you really want to know what's wrong in the work place, you need to take a good long look in the mirror.

[techboots]

Yes. Coworkers definitely drag you down - especially those who game the benefits system or who play politics. If you don't see this, wake up and look around your cubicle.

And yes, if having a kid grants you 4 months of paid leave... it will definitely feel like punishment for the rest of the single guys stuck in the office. I have a dog and cat I need to take care of. If you get to leave to take care of your kid, I should get to leave to take care of my pets.

[leothekim]

/cc shithackernewssays

[jasonlotito]

> If you get to leave to take care of your kid, I should get to leave to take care of my pets.

You can. Suggesting otherwise is a flat out lie.

> especially those who game the benefits system or who play politics.

You mean those that take what's offered to them? So…

You don't take pay? You don't vacation?

I mean, we already know you don't think you can leave.

And, maybe the bigger problem is you don't see why companies would want to do this. How it makes the company better as a whole to provide for this.

[tigroferoce]

This vacation consideration is interesting. Do coworkers that go on vacation also drag you down? What about ill people? Are you saying you would like working only with single healthy people? Don't you feel like you would be losing smart guys that may want to go on holiday time to time or would like a family? Or your work is so simple that anyone can do repetitively for hours and hours and hours without stop - a work that does not require the smartest people, but the more-workhorse people perhaps?

[jasonlotito]

Pretty sure your comment wasn't meant to be a reply to mine. =) Needless to say, you make good points.

[Hytosys]

>comparing a dog that needs nothing more than a walk and a bowl of food and water to a human being whose first years will be an extrapolation on his or her societal impact for years to come

Surely you must be having a laugh.

[techboots]

@hytosis A dog needs "nothing more than a bowl of water and food?" Well, that's subjective. If that's the case, then I think your kid needs nothing more than a bowl of water and food too. Same thing.

[Hytosys]

Sure. Then I'd retract and say that what your dog really needs is to be out in the wild being raised by its own real doggy parents (who most likely get a 120-moon leave from work).

[marquis]

I hope this comment stays online for the remainder of your life, so when you have a family you love and you see how beneficial it would be if you had more time and home as your children grow, you look back here and feel just a little sheepish. Any company that truly respects people understands that taking a few months of work, or only working part time, does not in any way, at all, degrade the quality of the work. I see this first hand every day and I'm proud to support my coworkers and be supported.

[joebeetee]

I hope it stays online purely for the comedic gold. Seriously, "techboots" calling out Sheryl Sandberg and Facebook and giving advice for entrepreneurs? "Tone down my work and time as well to match"? Good stuff.

[techboots]

Fully agree, life & family is more important. I think if I really wanted to spend more time with my family, I'd just quit the job rather than trying to play the benefits system to get 4 months of paid leave.

Families get in the way of work. It's just that simple. There's less time to pull all-nighters. Once a company starts encouraging "family people," it becomes a certain type of place. It's a type of place that doesn't really vibe well with entrepreneur-types or young single guys perhaps... but it may be the perfect sort of place for family types. Like Microsoft or Cisco. Facebook is becoming like that. It's not necessarily bad for everyone.

[marquis]

>"Families get in the way of work. It's just that simple"

I'm really sorry for your way of life, I really am. I mean that in the nicest possible way, that I hope you find that there is a beautiful, loving world outside the office, that informs your work and why you are working.

[techboots]

You might want to read my whole statement. I appreciate that there's a "beautiful, loving world outside the office."

It's precisely because of that that I wouldn't want to spend all of my time inside that office - I'd want to spend it with my family. And because of that, I wrote "families get in the way of work." It really is that simple. People with family have more beauty & love in their world, they realize what's important in life, and they spend less time in the office. And that's perfectly fine. But in such an environment, certain other types of people (bored single guys who really want to work long & hard) will not find themselves feeling entirely comfortable.

Companies tend to gravitate between the two ends... either super hard working, or laid-back family types. You can see that FB is drifing towards the latter. Which is perfectly fine.

[Hytosys]

>less time to pull all-nighters

Yeah, pal. Just like tending to your family, getting consistent nights of sleep are both inarguably necessary to avoid societal, mental health, or physical health issues. All human entities should keep these necessities in mind when designing a plan that involves other human lives.

Your mentality is parallel with the "live hard, die hard" mantra plaguing the industry and imposing itself on the responsible workers.

[dantheman]

Facebook is a large successful company, life is more important, and it's not like a few extra hours or days are going to have a huge impact.

[k-mcgrady]

If you work for a company you ARE an employee, not an entrepreneur. Facebook is a company. Like most other companies employees most likely work a standard schedule (9-5).

>> "Hey, just because I don't have a kid, doesn't mean I shouldn't get time off - why punish me for that."

It's a benefit that comes with the job which you would also be entitled to. You have a kid, you get time off. Would you be complaining if someone else was getting more value out of the company health insurance plan than you because they were ill more often?

[qznc]

I do not understand you.

Is "entrepreneurs" the new "real men" for you? Employees who leave at 5pm are just "weaklings"?

You want entrepreneurs as coworkers? By definition you can only have one as partner.

How is it unfair? You want sabbaticals for everybody? That I would understand and support.

How are his coworkers punished? How is it "dragging the work quality of everyone else around"?

Isn't "sit out of the game" exactly what he did with his paternal leave?

[dogonwheels]

'I get it'. No. You really don't.

[techboots]

Ok. Let's do this.

Let's form a company. We're co-founders, okay?

Now. I'm going to have a kid, take 4 months off, and leave work 5pm everyday. How do you feel?

[onedev]

During the early days of LinkedIn, when the company was only 10 or 20 people, people would leave work at 5pm. Start ups don't have to be this arbitrary 24/7 grind.

You know how LinkedIn worked in that manner? They focused on work COMPLETELY for those 8 hours and were able to get shit done.

I'm sure you'd agree that they've built a very successful company.

[techboots]

Agree.

If the guy did try to contribute to work during his paternity leave, I'd respect that. But he didn't. He just kicked back and read "Lean In" in his spare time. His coworkers probably didn't even have the luxury of having enough spare time to read that book.

[justinsteele]

You honestly think employees at a company that offers 4 months paternity leave don't have enough free time to read a single book? I am struggling to understand if you're trolling, or really don't understand long term productivity and business as much as it seems...

[potater]

I have two immediate thoughts. Forming a company and then taking time off of work to raise a child for 4 month is indicative of non-ideal planning, more than anything. That said, in this case the gentleman in question is an employee of an established company, not the cofounder to a startup.

Additionally, leaving work at 5pm every day sounds great and, I suspect, may actually result in a more productive work week with happier employees. All parties win in such instances.

[jasonlotito]

Wow. You really don't get it.

And you've never been a co-founder of any real startup, have you? I mean, I can't imagine anyone who has raised money and hired people and had gone that route to really pose this type of question, especially in this context.

You should take a step back, leave the office, and think about why so many people are telling you that you are flat out wrong.

[dogonwheels]

That you had 9 months notice and you're only telling me now? ;)

Seriously: I've met a minuscule number of people that can produce genuinely useful stuff when really working more than 8 hours in a stretch. I've met several orders of magnitude more people who think they can. I'm happy existing outside of both groups, and working with similar modest souls.

Also: I'd suggest getting up earlier and finishing at 4.

[lotso]

How is being a cofounder analogous to being an employee of a 4,000 person company?

[jasonlotito]

> Hey, just because I don't have a kid, doesn't mean I shouldn't get time off - why punish me for that. Not fair. I'll take my time off to work on my own projects.

Go ahead? Who is stopping you?

In fact, if you aren't doing this, you are a worse entrepreneur by far. It's been proven, time and time again, that you need to take time off. You need to step away. You need to leave work.

If you aren't doing this, you're the one dragging the work quality of everyone else around you.

[waylandsmithers]

>>Hey, just because I don't have a kid, doesn't mean I shouldn't get time off - why punish me for that. Not fair.

I think the main message we can learn from this comment (which I think is mostly written in jest in playing devil's advocate) is: You worry about you, and only you. Yeah, maybe it's annoying that smokers can take a break every few hours to go hang out outside, and you get "punished" for not being a smoker. Everyone's situation is different. Mind your own god damn business.

[Tycho]

They would probably be relieved if you kept the same hours they did. If you don't have family to go home to you have a competitive advantage in the work place over those who do, as there is probably nothing that needs to take priority over your work.

[djt]

HN, please dont feed the trolls.