[mdrzn]

"There is no difference in functionality between current products and revised products containing user-replaceable batteries."

So there was nothing "limiting" them from making it already with user-replaceable batteries, they just didn't care enough until EU forced them (like all the smartphone brands). Love EU.

[Zambyte]

It's not that they didn't care, it's that they did care in the wrong way. A non-replacable battery means people will be more likely to buy a whole new device if (when) the battery fails.

[arghwhat]

To be clear, all the mentioned Nintendo products are already designed for battery replacement, with well-contained battery units and easy connectors, and the batteries are available and problem-free to replace unlike for a certain fruit company.

The redesign is because the ease of accessing the batteries did not comply with the new rules. The pro controller in particular requires almost complete disassembly to get to the module, and the Switch 2's battery uses double-sided adhesive which is finicky. Joycons can also be a bit finicky to navigate for the uninitiated.

Also, as the device is Japanese, it uses JIS screws rather than Philips (in addition to triwing), which could surprise some. These are superior for service - Philips screws are specifically designed to strip during assembly to prevent over-torquing - but they do require you to have the right, "exotic" screwdriver. As JIS screwdrivers are compatible with and superior in bite even for Philips screws, it's a good habit to just always use those instead for electronics. iFixit kits and such include them.

[Kankuro]

I recently changed the battery of my Switch 1, if for most of the process it was easy, and I really struggled on two points. 1) the plastic part into which the screws are screwed broke, and it is tough to remove them. 2) ungluing the battery with isopropyl alcohol without breaking anything was very long for me. I recently changed the USB port of my Fairphone 4 and it was just unscrewing and screwing. So for me it is a great change from Nintendo.

[lapetitejort]

There's been some recent developments with removing batteries glued to the device: use floss or some other thin string and saw through the glue. The string won't pierce the battery and can fit in tight spots.

[lesostep]

I remember same floss-hack used to work to replace a smartphone screen without replacing touchscreen

Oh how far we fallen

[Kankuro]

I used floss as indicated in ifixit comments, but the glue did not saw easily (I'm not dexterous).

[AussieWog93]

I usually just cut a "knife" out of a cereal box and saw back and forth.

[shawn_w]

That's clever.

[commandersaki]

I recently changed the USB port of my Fairphone 4 and it was just unscrewing and screwing.

why are you changing a USB port on a phone?

[Kankuro]

At some point, only charging worked (and for one usb-c cable only on one side, which is weird given connecter is symmetrical), data and usb-audio stopped working. With my previous Samsung phone contact became very unreliable after 3 years. A new connector costs only a few euros, but I cannot do the soldering by myself and it cost me around 40€.

[calvinmorrison]

Phillips Heads: The design is often criticized for its tendency to cam out at lower torque levels than other "cross head" designs. There has long been a popular belief that this was a deliberate feature of the design, to assemble aluminium aircraft without overtightening the fasteners.[15]: 85 [16] There is no good evidence for this suggestion, and the property is not mentioned in the original patents.[17]

[arghwhat]

They describe it as a feature in their later 1942 patent (US2474994A), in the description of which they mention it to protect against powertools with poor torque control, claiming that a better screw would only be possible if power tools and their torque control were perfect and that it is therefore a required feature.

The original designs did not reference this though, so it seems more like them adopting an observed behavior as a feature - so the statement that it was originally designed to be that way is indeed off, but the company did adopt the behavior in official paperwork.

[sandworm101]

It has more to do with manufacturing techniques. Screw heads are stamped. A cone shape, with all sloped sides, is easier to stamp reliably. Even the famed Robertson bits from canada have a slight slope for this reason.

[babypuncher]

If I were to speculate, the point of phillips head was to just be easier to use than flat head while still being easy to manufacture 90 years ago. The better heads introduced since then have more intricate designs that require more precise manufacturing than a simple stamp

[bmacho]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Phillips

[wildzzz]

I work with a product that has to use Philips head for one specific area. I hate those damn screws. They all need to be torqued to a specific value and this requires putting an significant amount of force axial to the screw to keep the driver from slipping. If you do slip, you'll probably strip the head and now it needs to be replaced. It doesn't help that there's a gasket around the plate that adds extra running torque. Good luck getting a countersunk #2 screw out. The rest of the product uses hex heads so those are incredibly easy to install.

[doctorpangloss]

Your comment is interesting but next time say "Apple," right to repair isn't really about this Portlandia-esque mealy mouthed nerdery your rhetoric trades in. The batteries cost "$1" so I should be able to just buy them and quickly replace them. It's that simple.

[arghwhat]

Excuse me? That derogatory tongue-in-cheek way of referring to that company is not "mealy mouthed nerdery", as everyone and their mother understands who I am referring to. The lawsuit mitigation communication I suspect you're confusing it for requires it to be genuinely unclear who you mean.

However, batteries cannot cost $1 unless you want $1 worth of battery. Modern batteries are genuinely complex devices with extremely tight assembly tolerances, and something like a phone battery should be expected to be more like 10-40 USD.

Cheapo cells exist, but they genuinely have issues like poor assembly tolerances introducing risks of it deciding to spontaneously transform into a pocket-sized smoke machine.

[murderfs]

> Also, as the device is Japanese, it uses JIS screws rather than Philips (in addition to triwing), which could surprise some.

My understanding is that Europeans also generally tend to not use Phillips screws, but Pozidriv instead.

[arghwhat]

Am European, yeah but pozidriv was never used for tiny screws. We have also pretty much migrated all screw sizes to torx nowadays, so I only ever really see pozidriv on older appliances and hardware, while Philips mostly happen on imports.

[graypegg]

Philips in PZ screws is generally going to cam out like a regular philips head, just because you're not biting into the top with the PZ... triangle bits? I'm sure there's a technical name haha. So you can get by with that, a self-selected crappy philips experience when you could've chosen pozidriv bliss.

Philips in JIS screws is an exercise in anger management. IIRC, JIS has a much wider angle on the bottom of the drive, making it sink into the head less than a philips drive would, so it's a great way to turn your philips driver into an artisanaly-rounded single-hole punch.

[arghwhat]

Also note that drivers are made far harder than screws, so it will take many screws turned rivets before a driver becomes said artisinal hole punch.

[semi-extrinsic]

It's not the top triangle bits that cause the problem, it's that the whole geometry is different with parallel versus tapered flanks.

[jacekm]

I think I've read somewhere that JIS was phased out after Philips standard included some of JIS features and that theoretically modern Philips screwdrivers should be compatible with JIS.

[semi-extrinsic]

The JIS, ISO and ASME standards for cross head screw drivers are fully compatible.

The myth that JIS needs special screwdrivers is caused by people using either using the wrong size (easy at small sizes), using a worn-out or poorly-made screwdriver, or using Pozidriv (which is genuinely very different).

Anecdotally, about 5 years ago I bought a set of off-brand "premium" screwdrivers, where it turned out the Phillips head ones (yes there are two L's in there) were so far outside the standard I had to just throw them in the trash.

[arghwhat]

You got the wrong standard. JIS B 1012 type H is Philips equivalent, but what people refer to as the JIS screw is JIS B 1012 type S. JIS B 1012 Type S ("JIS") and ISO 8764 (Philips) are entirely different screw and scredriver profiles. See https://www.peterverdone.com/jis-cross-head-screws-and-drive....

The Philips screwdriver has lobes with a large multi-stage taper that ejects the screwdriver from the screw upon torque. The JIS screwdriver lobes are in contrast almost perfect 90 degree angle with a tiny filet in the center - not dissimilar to the Frearson screw.

A Philips screwdriver will be unable to insert all the way into a JIS screw due to this taper, exactly similar to how the extra lobes on a Pozidriv screwdriver collides a Philips screw. Attempting to apply torque with this partial engagement puts you at very high risk of stripping the screw.

A JIS screwdriver however does work perfectly fine in Philips screws, often even better than the Philips screwdriver as you did away with one half of the "screwdriver ejection feature".

There's a reason that iFixit goes out of their way to make both JIS and Philips bits, and warn you in their guides. They aren't really in the business of trying to cram more bits down your throat for fun.

[hadlock]

>it uses JIS screws rather than Philips (in addition to triwing)

I don't think this is an issue for anyone who has had to disassemble a japanese device before, and the bits are widely available online. Countless youtube videos have discussed that JIS vs Philips in the consumer space are largely compatible outside of american aircraft construction.

[drdexebtjl]

I've disassembled a few Japanese cameras with JIS screws, and they're definitely not largely compatible. You will strip the screw.

[deaton]

Torx is also common and also way way better than philips. Really we as a society need to phase out philips screws yesterday.

[cogman10]

Philips is great for what it's designed to do, strip out.

But for electronics I basically never want that behavior.

[asdff]

I've stripped out every sort of head. It isn't the heads fault really. Lack of thread treatment and/or correct application of torque is the cause and can happen to any head.

[QuercusMax]

So in essence, if you EVER think you might need to disassemble something, you shouldn't use Philips.

[Faaak]

And even then, torque screwdrivers are not that expensive

[whycome]

The prevalence of Robertson in Canada is amazing.

[soperj]

I keep the Robertson head in my drill because it's pretty much the only one I ever use.

[sandworm101]

Because Robertsons are the best. There is no equal for wood screws.

[junga]

> Really we as a society need to phase out philips screws yesterday.

Pozidriv to the rescue! (just kidding)

[Melatonic]

There are also screws more commonly available than JIS but not as comically bad as Phillips. Hopefully they use those

[jorvi]

iPhone batteries are actually relatively easy to access and replace. The only annoying thing that Apple (and most other gadgets) insist on is adhesive strip mounting of the battery. Just use screws please.

[Waterluvian]

I think the more likely explanation is that there was not sufficient market motiviation to include the additional requirement of a user-swappable battery. ie. people care, but they don't care enough or in enough volume for Nintendo to decide it's required.

I celebrate user-swappable batteries and I think I like the battery regulations. I just don't think the Ghost of Iwata is under your bed twirling a Wario moustache while thinking about how to screw you over. The current Switch battery situation is simply a result of user-swappable not being a requirement, among the countless other requirements already in contention.

[nolok]

Disagree. The market will not decide on that, at least for the nintendo product. Your or your kid want the switch and the pokemon and mario and others game, you're buying the switch, you don't switch to something else because the something else allows battery switch.

That's Nintendo's entire business model and the reason why they've been thriving since for ever in gaming and even the bad times where actually positive cash flow wise. They're not losing a single sale because the battery cannot be replaced, unless that sale was far from guaranteed to begin win.

[Waterluvian]

I don't think customers need to be protected from themselves. If they don't like the hardware but buy it anyways because they really like the game, that's a choice. And I feel that when we're dealing with luxury goods, we should give consumers very broad discretion to vote with their money.

[jackb4040]

"Vote with money" is such a funny talking point in this discussion. It's a metaphor for actual voting, with votes, which the people already did, for politicians who are now protecting their interests. You just don't like corporations being told what to do.

[johnnyanmac]

"Vote with your wallet" in a K shaped economy simply becomes the slogan of modern feudalism.

Funnily enough, these regulations were made by policy makers who were voted in with votes, and put such a regulation to its own vote. It's the most democratic way to approach this.

[philipallstar]

"Voting" with money is an extremely direct way of influencing something - you clearly want it or you don't want it. People definitely wanted Switches already, hence Nintendo is a going concern.

Voting for politicians (if you even bother) who might someday vote for or against something like this is a far, far weaker signal, if any at all. Politicians can easily do things that are vastly unpopular - e.g. in the UK the mass immigration that is clearly deeply unpopular but politicians refuse to change it.

[munk-a]

Rather than using the coloring of "protected from themselves" I prefer to view consumer protection boards as a collectivized bargaining unit for the consumers as a whole. Similar to unions the deals they strike won't be maximally optimal for all workers but a good consumer protection agency can balance the concerns of consumers and bargain as a single entity with the company. Otherwise the imbalance of bargaining power makes it extremely difficult for change to be enacted.

[yincrash]

As a regulatory decision, this isn't about protecting the consumer. It's about preventing an externality being handled by all of society, specifically reducing e-waste.

[enaaem]

Companies like these enjoy artificial monopolies thanks to IP laws. Why don’t we have the freedom to copy their products and make them the way we want?

[Zambyte]

This is victim blaming. The customer is not the one deciding make the batteries non-removable. This is protection from Nintendo.

[Waterluvian]

I just don't need a government to declare that I'm a victim by treating me like I'm not capable of saying, "no, the Switch 2 isn't cutting it for the pricetag. I'll skip this gen's Pokemon." This isn't bread. It's a luxury good.

[arghwhat]

As mentioned elsewhere, it's also important to remember that the batteries were fully serviceable - available for purchase, nicely compartmentized and with easy connectors. The products were definitely not designed to die with their batteries. They just weren't compliant with the new rules - this is quite different than a certain fruit company that have historically made battery replacements difficult for even service technicians to complete without consequences like constant user prompts.

I imagine the various products had their specific own conflicts with the rules, like requiring too much disassembly (the Pro controller in particular has to be disassembled from the front first), or the Switch 2 holding the battery with double-sided tape. Not to mention that you might not realize that the screw are JIS spec, stripping them with the Philips screwdriver you found in your drawer. Also triwing.

[nicoburns]

How would you ever measure market motivation in such a small market that has max 2-4 viable alternatives?

The market mechanism breaks down in such circumstances.

[srmatto]

This doesn't really take into account the real history around user replaceable batteries. It's been happening for years and when there are no alternatives to choose from its not a "vote with your wallet" situation. For example at some point MacBooks just stopped shipping with replaceable batteries and its disingenuous to expect someone to then switch to Dell, Lenovo, or something else. Those platforms can't run MacOS so the choice was made for the users. If you depend on MacOS and the software that runs on it, then your choice was clear--buy a new MacBook with a glued battery.

[wolvoleo]

And replace the entire top case and keyboard along with the battery no less.

[codedokode]

Consumers do not decide anything, they will buy whatever is in the store.

[stymaar]

That's not true, they decide which one of the bad options they want to buy…

[kwanbix]

I mean, XBOX has been doing replaceable batteries in joysticks since forever.

I have both a PS5 and an XBOX Series X. Whenever I am playing if I get out of battery on the XBOX, I just change them. In the PS5 is not possible.

I don't get what the advantage is.

[schmorptron]

I don't think that's it for console manufacturers. They make the majority of their money on game sales, so they want the console itself to be used for as long as possible.

[grumbel]

It's not about the console itself, but the accessories, anything that makes you buy more controllers means more money for them. And batteries aren't even the worst offender here.

Controllers have been using USB and an almost identical layout since the Xbox1 days 25 years ago, yet most game controller remain incompatible with each other, even within the same company. PS3 won't work on PS4 and PS4 won't work on PS5. Ironically, PS4 and PS5 controller will work on PS3, since that was the first and last console that supported plain old USB HID. Meanwhile Xbox360 had a lock-out chip to prevent third party controller and the Xbox360 controller don't work on XboxOne/Series either. XboxOne and XboxSeries at least are compatible. Meanwhile on PC pretty much everything works.

And then you have the whole stick drift problem, that has been solved since Dreamcast and PS3 SIXAXIS with Hall effect joysticks, but even decades later we still have controllers going in the bin due for easily avoidable reasons.

Rubber coating is another very common way to add an expiry date to devices that wouldn't have one otherwise.

If we wanted to get serious with the whole "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle", there are a lot more low hanging fruit than just the batteries.

[dchftcs]

That's true for Sony, but Nintendo doesn't sell the Switch at a loss.

[AussieWog93]

It's true for Nintendo too. They don't sell the hardware at a loss but also they make very little from the consoles (at least when they're new). Most of the money comes from software accessories.

[SpicyLemonZest]

I don't understand why battery failure is a "when". The only batteries I've ever had fail in rechargeable electronic devices were replaceable packs where water got into the compartment. Perhaps I've just gotten lucky?

[vitally3643]

Batteries are chemical devices and have a finite lifespan. There's enough confounding variables involved that some people get real superstitious about it.

Through a combination of internal and external factors, lithium batteries go through irreversible chemical changes on every charge cycle. Total charge capacity always trends down. Depending on a large number of variables, this might happen quickly or it might happen so slow you might never notice at all. It's all down to how and where the battery is used because temperature is mostly what drives the chemical reactions.

The other thing is that lithium batteries which have been deeply discharged below safe levels are permanently damaged. Just like charge cycle wear, this can be immediately apparent, or something that goes unnoticed forever, but the cell is damaged and will never be the same. Recharging such a battery can cause physical damage inside the cell.

Point is, batteries are chemical cells. They don't last forever because most chemical reactions are not perfectly reversible. Their specific application and environment strongly affects how long they last. But we do know conclusively that when lithium batteries are kept hot and charged and discharged at high current (such as in a handheld gaming device), they degrade faster. Cells which are kept at a stable temperature and low currents (such as headphones) degrade very slowly and can last a long time.

If you look past superstition, there's an entire industry that's been rigorously studying this problem for decades. There's a lot of literature and evidence.

Lithium cells do degrade. How fast they degrade depends on cell quality and environmental factors. It is, unequivocally, a question of when a battery will fail. It might well be a decade or two, but it will fail eventually.

[zootboy]

Battery failure is a "when" because batteries have a limited number of charge-discharge cycles. Modern lithium-ion batteries have a life expectancy in the range of 300-600 cycles. So if you've never had such a failure, it probably just means you're not a heavy user of your devices.

I try to keep my cell phones as long as I feasibly can. Every single one I've used for more than 3 years has had its battery fail (as expected for a device that sees such heavy cycling). My current phone is on its 3rd replacement battery.

[grumbel]

They all degrade and hold less charge over time and eventually fail completely, it will just take years or decades. But with today's forced obsolescence on the software side I tend to agree. The chance that a device becomes useless long before the battery causes issues are pretty high. The only device I ever had the battery fail first was the PSP (user replaceable), and that was after 20 years. Everything else had other hardware fail (buttons, sticks, flash memory) or run out of software updates ages ago.

That said, this will get more important going forward, phone and tablet hardware updates get ever smaller and incremental, and longer software update cycles are another thing the EU is starting to regulate. So devices reaching 10+ might not be that unusual in the future.

And as an aside, the one type of battery that very frequently fail isn't the built-in LiPo, it's the good old user replaceable Alkaline AA and AAA batteries, and they don't just run empty, they leak and destroy your hardware in the process, even long before the expiry date and with charge left. It's so common that I am surprised that that hasn't seen any regulation or consumer protection jump into action. Using NiMH instead helps, as they don't leak.

[garciansmith]

My PSP, maybe five years ago, had a swollen battery. A friend a couple days ago was complaining that his PS4 controller's battery held no charge at all.

[jamesnorden]

All li-ion batteries degrade over time, they may not fail completely, but the capacity will be diminished for sure.

[bluescrn]

The Switch 1 is almost 10 years old. Batteries don't have that much longevity.

And it was unnecessarily hard (actually dangerous due to fire risk) to replace it with a 3rd-party battery replacement due to excessive amounts of strong adhesive holding the battery in place.

[com2kid]

My 8 year old switch is happy.

The switch doesn't fast charge at absurd rates and generally has good thermals.

[lesostep]

I'll be the third one with anecdata: somehow my switch lite battery is still okay. I recently found a good repair shop and thought about replacing it, but after paying attention concluded that it's almost the same as new

[ariwilson]

My launch Switch 1 battery is still working. Capacity is probably 80% or less but it still works fine.

[sigmar]

How many years do you use them?

[SpicyLemonZest]

I'd guesstimate 5 or so on average. I have noise-cancelling headphones that are coming up on 13 years soon.

[Waterluvian]

I finally fixed my PS3 and came to discover that the controller batteries are just fine. Good batteries with proper BMS seem to be fine to live a very long life.

[resonious]

This is an old rumor but I thought Nintendo made a loss on the devices. If that's true, why would they want to sell more?

[endemic]

My take is they didn't optimize for something that a small percentage of users would have problems with.

[square_usual]

It's not really a small percentage of users. All users will have trouble with the battery - eventually. My DS4s ran out of battery life in about three years of usage; I still have one of them that I use wired with my PC, but I absolutely cannot use it wireless. Likewise with my DS5s - one of them barely held a charge 2-3 years in. I'm sure with good battery management you can extend the lifespan to be closer to 5-6 years, like my M1 MBP from 2021 that still has a 9+h battery life (though down from 12 as I remember), but that only keeps them going for a little longer. It's just a fact of how Li-ion batteries work that they will lose their capacity eventually.

E: DS4 = DualShock 4, DS5 = DualSense; these are the standard PlayStation controllers for the PS4 and the PS5 respectively.

[munk-a]

I think it's fair to object to the point above on the basis that users have very little knowledge of how quickly batteries will fail and thus the cost of that failure is hidden from the market. It takes years or decades for consumer usage of devices to give new purchasers a fair picture of the hardware difficulties surrounding the battery - and, by then, there's a newer model with different qualities on the market.

A good number of users will never hit troubles with their battery since electronic devices are treated rather cavalierly and replaced before those defects will surface, so I object to the wording that all users will hit that - but I still think it's clearly in the best interests of the majority of consumers to bargain for better lifetime extension support.

[jamesnorden]

Props for using the Apple wording, I guess.

[rtkwe]

I expect smartphones to look more like the Pro Controller tradeoffs than the joy cons. The issue with replaceable batteries is you need the extra space for the battery structure so unless phones grow they'll have lower capacities. There's also IP ratings, phones have pretty good IP ratings these days often surviving drops in puddles etc where none of these products have any official IP rating to preserve when adding doors etc for replacement batteries.

[braiamp]

I'm baffled that we still are thinking that we want thin phones. We have a gigantic camera bump that would be removed if the phone was thicker. Who wants a razor in their pocket, like really?

[ProfessorLayton]

Not only that, but if phone batteries were user replaceable, they could be sold in multiple capacities. So people that want "thin" phones can keep their camera protrusions, and the people that want more battery capacity could get a pack that allows the phone to sit flush on a table.

Literally win win win.

[rtkwe]

You say that like it'd be a simple process to accommodate the different thicknesses of battery..

[ProfessorLayton]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say? The replaceable battery is either thicker, or it isn't. There's not much to accommodate.

This is already a thing for some [dedicated] cameras like the Canon EOS series.

[rtkwe]

A thicker battery would need a new back built with a hump or standoffs across the whole back to increase the overall thickness to match the new larger battery thickness...

[juancn]

Battery life is shorter, and some are a tad heavier.

[bluescrn]

5 years later, after a battery swap, the model with a replaceable battery has a longer battery life than the one stuck with a degraded battery.

[AshamedCaptain]

More like just 1 year later even if you just store it unused, considering typical battery degradation.

[Ferret7446]

The ones with "non replaceable" batteries still has a longer battery life after a battery swap, it just requires a screwdriver and a couple of brain cells.

[bluescrn]

No, it requires adhesive-removing chemicals, IPA as a bare minimum, dental floss, plastic prying tools, and some idea of battery safety (so you don't turn it into a fireball by trying to extract it aggressively with a screwdriver).

Genuinely struggled to extract a Switch 1 battery from it's adhesive, and I'm usually perfectly comfortable disassembling+reassembling that sort of thing.

The use of adhesives, in excessive quantity/strength, on fragile/dangerous batteries is the problem, not the screwdriver or brain cells.

[port11]

Oh, sorry we made batteries replaceable for people with only one brain cell.

[josu]

Is it?

>Battery capacity: 5172mAh, approximately 1% smaller than current version (5220mAh)

[flutas]

Quoting just one of the smallest one feels a bit... charged. There's small tradeoffs among all of them when you account for weight.

For everyone else here's the full list:

Switch 2 Battery capacity: 5172mAh, approximately 1% smaller than current version (5220mAh) Weight: Approximately 411g, around 10g heavier than current version With Joy-Con 2 controllers attached: Approximately 548g, around 14g heavier than current version (approximately 534g).

JoyCon 2: Battery capacity: No change. Weight: each 2g heavier

Switch 2 Pro Controller: Battery capacity: 897mAh, approximately 16% smaller than current version (1070mAh). Weight: Approximately 228g, around 7g lighter than current version (approximately 235g).

N64 Controller: Battery capacity: No change. Weight: Approximately 234g, around 1g heavier than current version (approximately 233g)

GameCube controller: Battery capacity: 525mAh, approximately 5% larger than current version (500mAh). Weight: 215g, around 5g heavier than current version (210g).

[cromka]

They quoted what matters the most as it's for a device which has single shortest runtime on a battery: the Switch console itself.

Because who cares if the controller lasts 27 or 30 days? (Or so, don't quite me on exact numbers).

[com2kid]

It is typically a 40hr battery life.

~6 hours is quite a drop.

[crote]

The Switch 2 has a 5-hour battery life, and the controllers can charge through the console.

Put the controllers on the device when you're not using it (which seems like the obvious place to keep them), and they'll never run out.

[josu]

The console one seems the only relevant one. I'm a casual gamer, but the joycon running out of battery doesn't feel that annoying to me. That 16% has a much smaller impact on the JoyCon than on the main device.

[marysol5]

While it's not functionality, the batteries will be physically smaller, and thus less capacity.

[Luker88]

* 2 products: no change

* 2 products: -1%, -16%

* 1 product: +5%

more of a mixed bad if you ask me

[xd1936]

Except for an up-to-16% reduction in capacity, and slightly increased weight, depending on the product.

[GuB-42]

You mean an up-to-5% increase in capacity, and slightly decreased weight, depending on the product?

The truth is that the product with the 16% reduced capacity (Switch 2 Pro controller) is 7g lighter and the one with the 5% increased capacity (Gamecube controller) is 5g heavier.

Besides those two, the general idea is that the capacity is the same with 2-3% extra weight.

[rtkwe]

Some of these are no change because the existing versions already have pretty user replacement friendly batteries. The JoyCons for example already use the hard sided cells with plugs so I'm not sure what the change will actually amount to. If I had to guess it's maybe to change the glue or method of holding the battery in place to satisfy the ease of replacement requirements.

[vrganj]

The 16% is for the Pro Controller though, to be fair.

The Switch 2 itself loses 1% of battery capacity, most other products none at all.

Your framing seems a bit selective to the point of being misleading.

[dcrazy]

16% less battery life in a controller is pretty significant!

[ablob]

I wonder if it will feel significant. I can't remember being limited by the controller battery. The runtime on a single charge is probably still going to be measured in weeks, and at that scale I feel like it doesn't really matter.

[mdrzn]

Yes but it's limited to only the Nintendo Switch 2 Pro Controller.

The basic Joy-cons have no change to their battery capacity.

[rtkwe]

It's because they're basically already using user replaceable batteries, to the point I'm not sure what the SKU revision will actually do. My best guess is they won't be gluing the battery down any more? Otherwise there's not anything I can see they would need to change.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Joy-Con+Battery+Replacement/113...

[spaqin]

At least if you're a heavy gamer like that you can pop a new battery in quickly when the old dies, instead of getting tethered with a cumbersome cable.

[AshamedCaptain]

Glad to hear, because that's how much a battery will degrade by itself in 1 to 2 years if you're average lucky.

[vrganj]

Agreed, that one's not great. But it seems to be the only product that has serious trade-offs.

[lesostep]

does it matter for coach gaming if I can have spare batteries and just swap them. That's honestly sounds better then increased life with only cable recharge

[bluescrn]

How do those stats look 5 years later, when one is stuck with a degraded battery, and the other has had an easy battery swap?

[mmunj]

seeing as the product itself already advertises that it's best to not charge it to 100% feel like nothing's being lost here no matter how one tries to spin it

[xnx]

You still lose capacity with a smaller battery, even if you don't charge it to 100%.

[bogdan]

> they just didn't care enough

Of course there are extra costs. The parts and the extra assembly isn't free and it does add up.

[cogman10]

We are talking about plastic parts and metal tabs. I'd be shocked if the actual impact on per unit price was above $0.10.

Perhaps the most expensive part of this whole process is then engineering time to figure out how to place a replaceable battery.

[sva_]

> like all the smartphone brands

But there is at least some argument that smartphones nowadays have some pretty crazy waterproofness that I'm not sure is physically possible with a replaceable battery?

[everdrive]

This is not true. There are old replaceable-battery dumbphones that were rated in feet of submersion.

[stymaar]

We love to mock flat-earthers but believe it or not there are many people on HN who don't believe gaskets are a real thing.

[zamadatix]

In more concrete terms, there are modern (2025) smartphones like the Samsung Galaxy XCover7 Pro w/ replaceable batteries which have IP67 (1 meter of water for 30 minutes) or higher certification. The back panel popping off too easily (and dumping the battery with it) is one of the common cons with the device though, so while you can get everything it is an extra layer of difficulty to try to design around correctly.

[parineum]

> So there was nothing "limiting" them from making it already with user-replaceable batteries, they just didn't care enough until EU forced them (like all the smartphone brands). Love EU.

At the very least, the design will be more complicated to accommodate replaceable batteries. That costs money. There's a lot more to "limiting" than functionality.

[vrganj]

They could've just designed it that way to begin with.

Thanks to this regulation, they will the next time around.

[parineum]

A more complicated design costs more money to build/test and introduces more modes of failure in the final product.

[vrganj]

I'm not too worried. Removable batteries were standard fare for decades before Apple came around and set negative precedent. I don't recall it ever causing issues.

[ahartmetz]

The current hack is to buy devices made for disposable batteries and then use rechargeables. Electric toothbrushes almost all come with built-in non-removable batteries... except the cheapest ones, which also work fine.

[dylan604]

It's amazing how quickly we forget

[reaperducer]

Removable batteries were standard fare for decades before Apple came around and set negative precedent.

You must be newly hatched.

I have plenty of devices in my gadget box with non-replaceable batteries that pre-date Apple's iPhones, and even its iPods.

[vrganj]

Sure. But I bet you also have plenty of gadgets with replaceable batteries.

Just because something is standard fare doesn't mean it's the only option. Point is, it was quite common in the past.

[artisinal]

I’m happy that my gadgets no longer need expensive AA batteries.

[mopsi]

Rechargeable batteries have become very good and very cheap. IKEA sells 4xAA batteries for 8€, made in Japan, last 500-1000 cycles. Many "non-user-serviceable" devices actually have them inside; they're just not accessible without breaking the plastic clips that hold everything together: https://www.pololu.com/category/54/batteries

[ahartmetz]

...or NiMH AA rechargeable batteries if you could be arsed.

[AshamedCaptain]

You are generalizing. The design may very well be simpler, just more expensive.

[DANmode]

The Pinto fix was 11 cents per unit or so.

Get real.

[brookst]

Important to understand non-functional requirements (NFR). They’re saying the core features are the same. They are not saying they’re identical in weight, repair cost, water/dust resistance, battery lifetime, or cost.

[matchbok3]

Didn't care? Consumers don't care about this. Like most EU laws, this is a solution in search of a problem. Nintendo, like every other tech company, did the research and found that people simply don't care about this stuff. Now we have more complicated devices and have to buy our own batteries for what, exactly? There is just very little benefit here.

[scheme271]

I think consumers do care when they have to throw away a device or pay for a repair because the battery health has significantly degraded. This is really similar to the argument against having a standardized charging port or requiring usb-c charge ports for cellphones.

[matchbok3]

Yeah, I agree. Also, there's little evidence that consumers really care about this. Batteries last a long time now.

[Danox]

This is like the Germans decommissioning their nuclear power plants, What have they gained by doing so? Dependency on the Russians?