[amunozo]

I disagree. You cannot even book appointments in a lot of banks today, a thing you could do in the 90s. Like that, a lot of services are unavailable without a smartphone and its non-smartphone equivalent is not available anymore.

[epolanski]

This.

1. My bank doesn't allow to go in person without an in-app taken appointment.

2. My nephew can't play football in his team, because the team has an app to book/signal your availability. No other way.

3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't.

4. McDonald's will make me pay the scam pricing you get without the app.

5. My doctor gives documentation only and exclusively in digital form, on a special application that doesn't even have a desktop equivalent.

6. My fiance's office badges are smartphone-based. You cannot enter otherwise.

7. All the software she uses at work requires frequent Google/Apple/third party authentication.

8. Increasingly more European airlines exclusively accept in-app check in and documentation. You cannot print it. Ryanair's one of them.

I could go on for longer.

[medvidek]

1. I don't know any bank that does, but in any case voting with your wallet is always an option.

2., 3., 4. Voting with your wallet once again.

5. That would be illegal in many jurisdictions, some countries even have a centralized systems for doctors to upload documentation (that you access using your ID as an authentication token).

6., 7. Unless the employer provides said smartphone, that would be illegal to require in most countries.

8. Vote with your wallet, also all such airlines can print a boarding pass for free if you do the checkin on the website.

[epolanski]

Half of the voting with your wallet are blind to the fact that you can't vote anything else.

My village has one football team, not N. There's one burger place, not two.

For the rest, appealing to legality is pointless, I ain't bringing my family doctor to a tribunal over this, this is real life and me being petty for not wanting to use a phone. Being right years from now is beyond pointless.

[iamnothere]

Sounds like you have given up without a fight and deserve whatever you get.

[pbgcp2026]

epolanski@ is, unfortunately, right. You may try to "walk away" if you are not interested in the end result. If the fact of walking away for you is more important / feels better than actually doing what you came for. (And don't get me started on how girls look at you when you start fishing for petty change in your pockets - that seriously limits your dating pool LOL)

[iamnothere]

As someone with a long term partner who shares my use of cash, at least for some things, you don’t want to date people who look down on you for your choice of payment. Red flag. Waste of time.

Have some self respect. Don’t date people who aren’t mostly aligned with your values.

[epolanski]

Ain't life simple as you make it?

[ssttoo]

I recently skipped a concert at the YouTube theater in LA because my phone is too old for Ticketmaster or Hollywood Park apps. Even though you can go and buy a ticket at the box office they have to send you the ticket to the app. No option to print it or any non-app way.

[epolanski]

Oh that true!

I've been in multiple clubs/events that you can enter exclusively after having downloaded the app.

[gib444]

> 1. My bank doesn't allow to go in person without an in-app taken appointment.

What about other banks?

> 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't.

That's crazy. I don't think I even saw 50% during COVID. Must be barely 5% of places that are QR only in the UK.

> 4. McDonald's will make me pay the scam pricing you get without the app.

Isn't it a scam even with the app pricing? The quality is so so bad these days I feel scammed even paying £1.50 for a burger.

> 5. My doctor gives documentation only and exclusively in digital form, on a special application that doesn't even have a desktop equivalent.

> 6. My fiance's office badges are smartphone-based. You cannot enter otherwise.

Are those compatible with disability laws?

> 8. Increasingly more European airlines exclusively accept in-app check in and documentation. You cannot print it. Ryanair's one of them.

That is not true for Ryanair.

https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-gb/articles/12889016882065-Ca... :

"You can check in on the Ryanair.com website or on the mobile App"

"If you checked in but cannot present your boarding pass on the app when you arrive at the airport, you will receive a free of charge boarding pass."

(This it is more difficult as their appears to be even fewer staff around than before)

Also:

"You can check in for your flight at the airport, but you will have to pay an airport check-in fee per passenger to cover the extra cost of the airport check-in service. Please see our Table of Fees."

(Admittedly very very expensive)

[medvidek]

I flew with RyanAir several times after they introduced a "mandatory" app boarding pass, never had problems with check-in agents just printing the boarding pass for free (after doing the web check-in). Had to pretend my phone died once, in all other cases they just printed the pass no questions asked.

[jodrellblank]

(Depending on whether you mean "can't exist without a phone" or "can't exist without an Apple/Google monopoly ecosystem")

3. you don't need an Apple or Google account to scan a QR code and open a web page.

4. Why is it "scam" pricing? You're getting a discount from giving them your information with an app. Like Kindle charging more to remove adverts. Dislikable, scummy not scammy. (i.e. they aren't taking your money and providing nothing and then disappearing).

6. I think in the UK / Europe the employer would have to provide your fiancee with a company phone so she could access her workplace, and could not legally require her to have a personal phone with an employer managed/controlled app on it.

7. Does Google/Apple authentication require a Google/Apple app? I see "sign in with Google" on web pages on my Windows desktop. Google Authenticator app is a fairly standard OTP passcode app which can be done in many other programs, password vaults and browser plugins.

8. Ryanair says you can check-in on their website: https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-us/articles/12888891271953-Ho...

[aembleton]

> 8. Ryanair says you can check-in on their website: https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-us/articles/12888891271953-Ho...

Last year I could check in on their website, but needed the app for the boarding card. They might have changed that, but that article doesn't make it clear.

[epolanski]

But the boarding pass you need in app.

Or you're free to queue at 5 am for your 8.30 am free for an hour+at their counter.

[spankibalt]

First and foremost: I'm sorry for you. Living in a participation-dictated-by-app hellscape sucks. But most people only realize this when the magical one or two steps happen that force them to "touch grass".

With regards to specific points that match with my reality:

> "My fiance's office badges are smartphone-based. You cannot enter otherwise."

I worked for a company where that was a thing. Easy fix: They issued me (and others) a smartphone for that. And that slab never left the workplace either; I fetched/returned it before/after my day by notifying the security desk.

Everything else on your list is either irrelevant or unnacceptable to me, or simply illegal where I live.

[pbgcp2026]

You would be PIP'd next week today. Nobody is dealing with that anymore. Is it suppressing our rights? Yes. Absolutely. And it will get worse. And no, people will not revolt. And you will be left behind, on the other side of the gates, after all your team has gone through. Happy to do it? Rich enough to do it? I'm not ...

[troyvit]

> 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't.

Not knocking this list, the shit is real. But I just had a lovely imaginary conversation with a server asking them what they would recommend and then trying something brand new.

[SoftTalker]

When I go to a restaurant that has QR-only menus, I won't make a scene about it, but it lowers the mental rating I give the place and I'm less likely to return.

[jjav]

I suggest making a scene about it.

I've never encountered such a restaurant but will definitely make a scene about it if it happens.

[pbgcp2026]

If you do make a scene - please do not order soup. LOL

[chias]

I've had this conversation for real. The server's recommendation was that I scan the QR code.

That was my last time going to that restaurant.

[stavros]

That's happened to me a lot, to get a 503 service unavailable from a restaurant server.

[zephen]

Joke's on the server. The robot that will replace their job soon will be more than happy to regale you with any hallucinated information you would like about the subtleties of the menu.

[svl]

This might be country specific? Specifically dependent on laws in the fields of consumer-protection and keeping things universally accessible.

I don't own a smartphone. I have never owned a smartphone. There are inconveniences, and big organizations definitely try to push you toward the way of doing things which has the lowest costs for them - but there are no actual blockers. There is always a path involving actual humans, and regular phone calls (or emails or paper forms).

Reactions tend to be wistful variations of "I wish I could" or "but how do you?" - and it's really always about the most trivial inconveniences.

[amunozo]

To be honest, I never tried, but I see for example the removal of more and more procedures in person. In Spain where I'm from or Switzerland where I live it can be still manageable, but in the Nordic countries for example everything is digital and even cash is barely existent. A lot of payments are made by phone apps only.

[usr1106]

I am from Nordic country. I did not use any cash, had no wallet for several years. It's not needed. After the US government acting like it does I mostly stopped using cards. Like with phone OSes a US-controlled duopoly.

Cash does not to need to be used anywere, but cards can be avoided for weeks until I need to use it again. Most can be handled by cash or bank transfer without problems.

For phones I have not any Google Android or iOS until a year ago. Nowdays I have a Google work phone, but it's always in flight mode except when a pay my lunch subsidized by employer. I type this comment on my Sailfish device and I use a degoogled Android. Can cause minor inconvenienance occasionally, but rarely enough to turn on my work phone.

[deaux]

> Cash does not to need to be used anywere, but cards can be avoided for weeks until I need to use it again.

Your experience sounds interesting but I can't infer what this sentence means.

[usr1106]

Sorry, I should proof-read my comments... Can't edit it anymore

It is not necessary to use cash anywhere because cards can be used really everywhere.

But if you don't want to use cards, it's still possible to avoid it for weeks in row. You can pay cash at most brick and mortar places and by bank transfer at most online sites.

[pbgcp2026]

"oh, so sorry, we do not have change". (The note was £20, not 100, not even 50.) Good luck ...

[gib444]

I walked into my bank the other day and sorted out something, without an appointment.

Just joined an informal queue (no digital queueing system! The humans used their eyes and brain to remember who next )

Handed over my physical debit card so they could locate my account.

What digital hellscape do you live in? UK here

[SoftTalker]

Not my experience. I'm in the USA, and there are still bank branches everywhere, I'd say as many as ever and new ones are being built. In fact within a mile of my house the finishing touches on the latest new one (full remodel of a former restaurant building) are just about done.

[aembleton]

> I'd say as many as ever and new ones are being built.

That's an amazing difference compared to the UK. My local town had 5 bank branches ten years ago, now there are none. Until 2 weeks ago we didn't even have a cash machine; fortunately there is one now. It is something that has rapidly changed in the last 15 years.

[seb1204]

You should be able to do all that from a computer at home right? The times I needed to do serious banking on the go are limited. Yes convenient, but replaceable with a 10 minute session at home using my Firefox or similar on Linux.

[bdangubic]

Why does this permeate the HN all the time. You can 100% function without a fucking smartphone. My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing. If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation. It is crazy to keep reading this over and over on HN, so weird

[spankibalt]

> "Why does this permeate the HN all the time."

It's a bias, an in-bubble illiteracy effect, concerning the perception and analysis of realities (e. g. experiences) outside that bubble, mirroring an in-group's projections about an out-group. It is, in my decades of experience, a very common phenomenon in the IT sector.

> "My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing."

So far, that holds true for me as well (Germany).

> "If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation."

The crux: the increasing friction brought on by rising technological entry barriers. In Germany you have at least the non-exclusion principle of Teilhabe (lit.: participation) which gives certain guarantees. But such achievements of democracy are continually under fire.

[aleph_minus_one]

> It's a bias, an in-bubble illiteracy effect, concerning the perception and analysis of realities (e. g. experiences) outside that bubble, mirroring an in-group's projections about an out-group. It is, in my decades of experience, a very common phenomenon in the IT sector.

I (also German) have the impression that people who work in the IT sector are often much more critical of surveillance methods (including smartphones) than the average citizen.

[amunozo]

Well, no surprise that it works in Germany, but I am not so sure it will in the Nordic countries for example.

[spankibalt]

And hopefully it stays that way in Germany. A state and its essential-to-life institutions and businesses (which includes cultural participation) need to be accessible to everyone. That includes people who don't own a smartphone, for whatever reason.

[jjav]

It is vital that government services must not depend on anything that is not government provided.

No government service can depend on having a product from a private corporation.

[nonamesleft]

Nordic, works just fine, i only have an HMD 'Nokia' non-smartphone (i detest capacitive touchscreens, and my previous ungoogled qwerty android phone broke, waiting for my next one to arrive in 2026-12 or thereabouts).

No QR-code-only restaurants that i have seen, and i would walk out without a word if that happened (even if i had a device that can do that). Bank does 2FAs second part with an SMS, first part is username, password and an otp code from a paper. Bank login is also a very common way of logging into governmental systems, but those only use the username, password and otp code, skipping the SMS, alternatively i could use an id card with a reader, state provides even Linux software for that.

The housing companys winter car engine heating sockets operate with an app, or alternatively just opening the lid and setting the timer yourself.

Additional data point: my dad, when he was still alive (-2025), had a smartphone but wouldn't use apps beyond facebook, did his banking by mailing in signed bills or at the bank in person, without an appointment.

[rjrjrjrj]

Technically, sure you probably can spend a large amount of time, energy, and money to find alternative non-smartphone ways of navigating through modern life.

Practically, you need a smartphone. Engaging an attorney != practical

[SoftTalker]

That's the thing. The larger amount of time, energy, and money we spent on doing banking in the 1990s was real. The web, and then mobile apps, made a lot of that more convenient. But it's not impossible to live the old way. You can still write paper checks, go to the bank to make a deposit and get cash, etc. It used to be normal, everyone did it, now it seems extremely inconvenient for most people.

[rjrjrjrj]

It is extremely inconvenient.

Both because a dwindling minority of people do old things the old way; and because new things (eg Netflix and Uber) are designed for the new way, even if they don't absolutely require it.

[pbgcp2026]

"You can still write paper checks" – greetings to our US brethren! :-) In EU you will meet a girl at the counter who can operate only bank "tap on" terminal and have no idea how to print anything or where the website is. Why? She doesn't care. She is paid same money if she does or doesn't. Wnant to complain? Here is the feedback form (QR code) ... Manager? She is ...

[aleph_minus_one]

> The larger amount of time, energy, and money we spent on doing banking in the 1990s was real. The web, and then mobile apps, made a lot of that more convenient.

I wouldn't say so: when I go to the bank, I often combine it with grocery shopping, which I have to do anyway. So doing banking the old way is hardly an inconvenience.

[pjmlp]

In Portugal you have to do that at the bank terminals, otherwise going to the counter implies paying a services tax, depending on the kind of customer one happens to be.

[II2II]

Yeah, and lot of people assume that something doesn't exist because they aren't personally aware of it. Quite often there are people who are willing to serve those who don't make mainstream choices. Other times, it means that you simply have a different lifestyle from the mainstream. There's nothing wrong with that.

[deaux]

It's crazy that you're so insulated inside your own bubble and close-minded not to realize that the degree to which smartphones are required in daily life differ massively across countries, and HN is a global place. The places where your dad would have trouble going to the bank and doing "every other imaginable thing" are real and exist. You're just not in one.

[aleph_minus_one]

> the degree to which smartphones are required in daily life differ massively across countries, and HN is a global place.

In some countries people are willing to fight much harder against being coerced to have to use a smartphone. The message should thus rather be: follow their example.

[brandonr49]

It's easier to fight for additional rights when you start at a reasonably high baseline.

[willio58]

Yep, many older people right now don’t have a smart phone and never will.

As long as some younger people stay that course we should be fine. Hopefully we’ll see an increase of dumb phone adoption in a growing cohort younger adults. But the FUD spread in threads like this actually spreads misinformation and makes that less likely to happen

[brewdad]

And those older people frequently have to ask someone in their life who has a smartphone to assist them. They still need a smartphone to manage modern life they just don’t happen to own the phone they need.

[brookst]

Because the real complaint isn’t “it's impossible to live without a smartphone”, it is “I want all of the conveniences of a smartphone without having one, and I want every business to cater to the small minority who don’t want to use a smartphone”.

It’s like complaining that it’s difficult to travel to another continent if you don’t want to fly. I want to go from LA to Paris in 12 hours without getting on a plane!