[bdangubic]

Why does this permeate the HN all the time. You can 100% function without a fucking smartphone. My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing. If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation. It is crazy to keep reading this over and over on HN, so weird

[spankibalt]

> "Why does this permeate the HN all the time."

It's a bias, an in-bubble illiteracy effect, concerning the perception and analysis of realities (e. g. experiences) outside that bubble, mirroring an in-group's projections about an out-group. It is, in my decades of experience, a very common phenomenon in the IT sector.

> "My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing."

So far, that holds true for me as well (Germany).

> "If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation."

The crux: the increasing friction brought on by rising technological entry barriers. In Germany you have at least the non-exclusion principle of Teilhabe (lit.: participation) which gives certain guarantees. But such achievements of democracy are continually under fire.

[aleph_minus_one]

> It's a bias, an in-bubble illiteracy effect, concerning the perception and analysis of realities (e. g. experiences) outside that bubble, mirroring an in-group's projections about an out-group. It is, in my decades of experience, a very common phenomenon in the IT sector.

I (also German) have the impression that people who work in the IT sector are often much more critical of surveillance methods (including smartphones) than the average citizen.

[amunozo]

Well, no surprise that it works in Germany, but I am not so sure it will in the Nordic countries for example.

[spankibalt]

And hopefully it stays that way in Germany. A state and its essential-to-life institutions and businesses (which includes cultural participation) need to be accessible to everyone. That includes people who don't own a smartphone, for whatever reason.

[jjav]

It is vital that government services must not depend on anything that is not government provided.

No government service can depend on having a product from a private corporation.

[nonamesleft]

Nordic, works just fine, i only have an HMD 'Nokia' non-smartphone (i detest capacitive touchscreens, and my previous ungoogled qwerty android phone broke, waiting for my next one to arrive in 2026-12 or thereabouts).

No QR-code-only restaurants that i have seen, and i would walk out without a word if that happened (even if i had a device that can do that). Bank does 2FAs second part with an SMS, first part is username, password and an otp code from a paper. Bank login is also a very common way of logging into governmental systems, but those only use the username, password and otp code, skipping the SMS, alternatively i could use an id card with a reader, state provides even Linux software for that.

The housing companys winter car engine heating sockets operate with an app, or alternatively just opening the lid and setting the timer yourself.

Additional data point: my dad, when he was still alive (-2025), had a smartphone but wouldn't use apps beyond facebook, did his banking by mailing in signed bills or at the bank in person, without an appointment.

[rjrjrjrj]

Technically, sure you probably can spend a large amount of time, energy, and money to find alternative non-smartphone ways of navigating through modern life.

Practically, you need a smartphone. Engaging an attorney != practical

[SoftTalker]

That's the thing. The larger amount of time, energy, and money we spent on doing banking in the 1990s was real. The web, and then mobile apps, made a lot of that more convenient. But it's not impossible to live the old way. You can still write paper checks, go to the bank to make a deposit and get cash, etc. It used to be normal, everyone did it, now it seems extremely inconvenient for most people.

[rjrjrjrj]

It is extremely inconvenient.

Both because a dwindling minority of people do old things the old way; and because new things (eg Netflix and Uber) are designed for the new way, even if they don't absolutely require it.

[pbgcp2026]

"You can still write paper checks" – greetings to our US brethren! :-) In EU you will meet a girl at the counter who can operate only bank "tap on" terminal and have no idea how to print anything or where the website is. Why? She doesn't care. She is paid same money if she does or doesn't. Wnant to complain? Here is the feedback form (QR code) ... Manager? She is ...

[aleph_minus_one]

> The larger amount of time, energy, and money we spent on doing banking in the 1990s was real. The web, and then mobile apps, made a lot of that more convenient.

I wouldn't say so: when I go to the bank, I often combine it with grocery shopping, which I have to do anyway. So doing banking the old way is hardly an inconvenience.

[pjmlp]

In Portugal you have to do that at the bank terminals, otherwise going to the counter implies paying a services tax, depending on the kind of customer one happens to be.

[II2II]

Yeah, and lot of people assume that something doesn't exist because they aren't personally aware of it. Quite often there are people who are willing to serve those who don't make mainstream choices. Other times, it means that you simply have a different lifestyle from the mainstream. There's nothing wrong with that.

[deaux]

It's crazy that you're so insulated inside your own bubble and close-minded not to realize that the degree to which smartphones are required in daily life differ massively across countries, and HN is a global place. The places where your dad would have trouble going to the bank and doing "every other imaginable thing" are real and exist. You're just not in one.

[aleph_minus_one]

> the degree to which smartphones are required in daily life differ massively across countries, and HN is a global place.

In some countries people are willing to fight much harder against being coerced to have to use a smartphone. The message should thus rather be: follow their example.

[brandonr49]

It's easier to fight for additional rights when you start at a reasonably high baseline.

[willio58]

Yep, many older people right now don’t have a smart phone and never will.

As long as some younger people stay that course we should be fine. Hopefully we’ll see an increase of dumb phone adoption in a growing cohort younger adults. But the FUD spread in threads like this actually spreads misinformation and makes that less likely to happen

[brewdad]

And those older people frequently have to ask someone in their life who has a smartphone to assist them. They still need a smartphone to manage modern life they just don’t happen to own the phone they need.

[brookst]

Because the real complaint isn’t “it's impossible to live without a smartphone”, it is “I want all of the conveniences of a smartphone without having one, and I want every business to cater to the small minority who don’t want to use a smartphone”.

It’s like complaining that it’s difficult to travel to another continent if you don’t want to fly. I want to go from LA to Paris in 12 hours without getting on a plane!