[_DeadFred_]

Especially when you use smart weapons to try to minimize it from happening as collatoral damage (though that doesn't change the awefulness when a school seems to have wrongly been targeted, smart weapons are only as good as their target information).

It's much cheaper to just gun down 30,000 protestors in the street protesting that they don't want to be raped by Islamic religious morality police if they don't wear hats. Or to just fire missiles randomly at civilian areas such as the one that resulted in 11 year old Nesia Karadi dying today from the sever wounds she sustained from Iran's missiles fired into Israeli civilian areas.

[DrProtic]

We have a lot of videos of protests in Iran yet no videos of mass killings whatsoever.

30k murders is the same as Iraq’s WMD but people are too gullible to see that.

I see how smart those bombs are in Iran and Lebanon, they are able to surgically destroy whole residential buildings.

[_DeadFred_]

https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000010723018/iran-p...

Amnesty International https://amnesty.ca/urgent-actions/iran-thousands-of-protest-...

United Nations Report https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements-and-speeches/2026/03/sta...

From a less reputable source: https://www.newsnationnow.com/world/iranian-nurse-protesters...

The regime admits 3,000. According to human rights group tracking numbers the regime reports about 10% of it's political executions, so following that 30,000 would be about right.

There were lots of morgue videos with mass deaths. There were videos of large crowds fleeing as gunshots are fired. There were videos of men on rooftops firing into crowds. What exact videos are you looing for? There are reports by family of doctors/nurses them being taking away. Of them being killed.

Destroying 1 building is much better than the random cluster bomb dispersal over whole neighborhoods that Iran is doing.

Your response of just using an ad hominem calling me gullible and providing zero information to back up the name calling up is not in line with the HN community guidelines though I understand the guidelines deliberately aren't enforced in the normal way and exceptions are made for one side's narrative of the ongoing mideast crisis.

[DrProtic]

None of your sources display any kind of evidence whatsoever.

Where are videos of police opening fire on protesters?

30K deaths and not a single video circling around? How’s that possible?

X-Ray? Really?!

All you posted is “report says”. Again, just like “report said” there were WMD.

[_DeadFred_]

The regime reports that they killed 3000 people. That police fired on people is not in dispute by either side (other than apparently you). Don't know what else to tell you. Bots sides weren't in agreement in your desperate equivalating with the not equivalent WMD thing. Iran traditionally only confirms 10% of political executions it commits. 30,000 fits with the historical numbers around Iranian murders of their citizens.

Doctors normally take Xrays of patients as part of the medical process. They don't normally take photographs. Not sure why you don't trust xrays? Are you anti-modern medicine/tech as well as anti-secular/pro-Islamic government?

Your requirement for videos out of a despotic regime that has shut the internet down shows you don't really care about the reality.

Keep trying to justify religious murder by an Islamic Republic of people who just want to be free of the rule of Islam and be secular. The Iranian government says they killed 3000 people. That this occurred isn't in dispute.

[za3faran]

We don't even know if that number is correct (the 30k protesters, especially given the heavy mossad invovlement), but let's pretend to care about human life and kill even more. Didn't trump threaten to wipe out an entire civilization?

[_DeadFred_]

https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000010723018/iran-p...

Amnesty International https://amnesty.ca/urgent-actions/iran-thousands-of-protest-...

United Nations Report https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements-and-speeches/2026/03/sta...

From a less reputable source: https://www.newsnationnow.com/world/iranian-nurse-protesters...

The regime reported 3000. According to human rights agencies Iran normally reports 10% of their political executions so going by history (and ignoring the people stating 30,000 is correct), extrapolating from regime numbers and human rights groups analysis 30,000 would match historical numbers.

I don't know what your mossad comment has to do with anything. Seems like 'the Gaza Health Ministry is Hamas' level hand waiving away of senseless amounts of civilian death.

I'm sorry but are you equating Trump hyperbole resulting in nothing as equal to the actual murder of 3000-30000 civilian protestors who just didn't want a government that raped/murdered people for choosing not to follow a religion's morality laws?

[DrProtic]

I’m sure destroying their civilization will help them a lot.

[_DeadFred_]

The Islamic Republic of Iran has called for and acted towards/funded the destruction of the American people, my civilization, my family, for the last 40+ years, held mass protests of hate towards us continually. Boo hoo that rhetoric towards them from my side came close to the very much not rhetoric but moral/religious position they have vocally held, marched in support of, taught their children in school for 40+ years. The Islamic Republic of Iran has a government built billboard in their capital with a countdown to their desired destruction of another nation as well. Give me a break with the one sided moral outrage.

Iran/Iranians want me, my parents, my children dead. They have shouted this loudly for 40+ years. I grew up afraid of Islam, seeing the head of a religion and also leader of a nation that hated me calling for my and my families deaths. The head of a religion calling for the execution of people like Rushdie, simply for writing a book. I on the other hand just want Iranians to not be raped/murdered for their choice in hats. I have never seen/attended a rally that chanted 'death to Iran'. A huge part of my country's last election was talk on 'Americans don't want war with Iran'. Has ANY government approved Iranian moderate ran on 'we don't want death to America'?

[DrProtic]

You mean the chants they started saying after overturning the puppet regime US and UK installed through spying and meddling?

After they robbed them of their oil while they only wanted a deal the Saudi Arabia got but UK refused to give to Iran because UK was clinging to their imperialist influence?

The chant born after decades of oppression, spying, sanctions and assassinations?

Read a little history and you’ll understand better. It’s the UK who started the circle of problems and US expanded it.

You don’t need to attend the rally for your government to oppress another country, and you didn’t attend it because you weren’t the victim, Iran is.

And this comes from a person who has huge distain for governments not separate from religion.

[_DeadFred_]

You bring up destroying civilizations is bad, but it's ok for my son and daughter to die and their world destroyed because 1953? And somehow 10 year old me was wrong and needed to understand the historical reasons behind it and why the top religious leader was right calling for me to die and he was actually the victim?

Nah, fuck that nuanced chillness with the 40+ year desire for my (and now my childrens death). I get it, the world hates us and has been chill on Iran wanting our death since forever (not your problem). But 10 year old me was not in a death cult and really wouldn't have slept better knowing some things happened in the past so it's really not bad that a nation and entire sect of Islam's highest religious leaders want me/my family dead and my country/reality/world destroyed and I need to internalize I am the great satin and not let a religion's calling for my death impact my opinion of that religion.

These are the same islamic religious leaders that fatwah'd Rushdies death for writing a book they didn't like (I'm sure that was just words and he wasn't attacked). These are the islamic religious leaders who call for Israels death along with the USA, and funded the murder/rape/maiming/injuring of thousands of random civilians by their proxy on Oct 7th )who then broadcast the videos to the world they were so proud of what they did to random grandmas/families in their homes). So we all know it's not just words, they mean and want this and they directly fund/supervise proxies who happily/proudly murder random civilians in their homes (is that also ok because 'actually those murderers were the victims'?).

[za3faran]

Except that rape is not permitted by their religion's morality laws. This alone is sufficient to be extremely weary of what is reported by pro US/israel sources.

[_DeadFred_]

Iran has political discussion of if they need to rape women before they execute them, with the religious man that Iranians attribute that religious directive to having to make MULTIPLE public statements that he was not calling for women to be raped so that government officials would stop using him as justification to rape.

The founder of islam had multiple sex slaves taken from lands that he conquered by war. Excuse me if I think the religion isn't above rape. That would be like saying mormons don't take advantage of people in MLMs because their religion forbids them from taking advantage of people. Or anything about scientology's requirements of it's followers. It has zero weight. Actions do. The founder and most perfect man in islam raped women openly, was a rapist, his voice on the topic has zero weight to the contrary.

[za3faran]

Where is this political discussion exactly? Citation required.

Sex slavery, the one you are thinking of, does not exist in Islam, and is prohibited. No such thing took place. Rape is very clearly prohibited in Islam.

Now I wonder more and more where you are getting your misinformation from.

[_DeadFred_]

Easiest/first reference, I'm not deep diving into sex slavery by a holly man right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_al-Qibtiyya

You can not give consent when you are a prisoner/slave. We recognize this and throw in jail any prison guard who has sex with people under their complete control. It is rape. When a slave has your child it means you raped them. A slave can not give consent just like an inmate in prison can not give consent, a child can not give consent. All such cases are rape. Slaves (of which four are listed here) + sex = sex slavery being commited.

Ibn 'Abbas said: When Maria gave birth to Ibrahim the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, 'Her son has set her free.

From the very end:

Abu ‘Ubaydah said about Muhammad:

He had four [concubines]: Mariyah, who was the mother of his son Ibraaheem; Rayhaanah; another beautiful slave woman whom he acquired as a prisoner of war; and a slave woman who was given to him by Zaynab bint Jahsh."[35]

That is not a man above raping multiple women or sex slavery. And actions by religious leaders tend to have as much weight as words.

Again not deep diving but an Iranian theologin had to publish multiple letters publically because Iranians were using what he said as justification for raping virgins before execution. He had to publically call out that that is not what he said to stop it from happening. Again first source, I'm not deep diving so don't 'give me a different source'. Anyone that reads this is welcome to google that mans name (Hossein Ali-Montazeri) and the topic. You don't have to explain why 'people need to not rape because of what I said' if people are already... not raping.

https://wncri.org/2015/11/13/female-prisoners-virgins-raped/ https://www.womensvoicesnow.org/films/final-moments

[tastyface]

"A whole civilization will die tonight"

[_DeadFred_]

Did it actually happen or was it failed Trump negotiating bluster?

My entire life Iran/Shia leaders have called for my and all my nations deaths and the destruction of my entire country/civilization. I remember being terrified as a kid seeing the news, seeing video of a whole nation chanting for me and my families death, for death to American civilization, tied with hostage taking, bombings, kidnapping, parading of missiles. 60 minutes used to have stories on Iran's hatred and desire for the American civilizations destruction all the time. It greatly shaped my view of Islam (though now I understand it was just Shia islam).

[pazimzadeh]

could say the same thing about "Death to America." did it happen or is it just bluster?

> though now I understand it was just Shia islam

have you heard of 9/11

you're lazy

[_DeadFred_]

>could say the same thing about "Death to America." did it happen or is it just bluster?

Ding ding ding. Amen brother, you understand the point I was making. 'It didn't happen so that isn't what he called for, it was bluster' is a bullshit defense/justification for calling for the death of entire societies by those in power. Imagine waiving away what trump said, the calling for the death of a society, as harmless rhetoric or justifying his reason for doing so.

9/11 happened after my childhood and was not conducted by a supreme Islamic leader, why would it be relevant to what I wrote? The events I wrote about were all at the direction/teachings of some of the most supreme shia Islamic leaders, Bin Laden was a spoiled rich boy not a lifelong Islamic leader/teacher/researcher like Iran's mullahs. It's best to differentiate groups and not generalize about religions/people/groups down that path often lies justification for evil. If I see religious leaders/scholars/teachers it makes me wonder about the religion/church/sect/cult. If I see a school shooter, it makes me wonder at my nation's rotten core and how can I fix that, not the shooters motivation.

The multiple personal attacks you have done and your cross examine writing style are a violation of HN guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[cholantesh]

>It's best to differentiate groups and not generalize about religions/people/groups down that path often lies justification for evil.

But broad generalizations about one of the principal denominations of a religion/its adherents are entirely above board?

[_DeadFred_]

Broad generalization about what their supreme religious leaders do/say? Yep.

[pazimzadeh]

> Amen brother, you understand the point I was making

No, I took your comment literally..and even if it was sarcastic I agree with it. It's like in the Art of War. Those who are strong don't need to say anything, and those who are weak bluster. Trump found himself in a weak position but wanted to look strong. Same thing with the mullahs over the years. Predictably once they felt their military capabilities were strong enough, they mellowed their rhetoric:

  It is also clear that “Death to America” does not mean death to the people of America. The people of America are like other peoples. It means death to American policies and to arrogance. 

https://english.khamenei.ir/news/2298/Death-to-America-means...

> 9/11 happened after my childhood and was not conducted by a supreme Islamic leader, why would it be relevant to what I wrote?

Sorry, I don't get your point. First, the whole world doesn't revolve around your childhood, and foreign policy is not based on your childhood. This is really getting tedious. Am I supposed to also only care about things that happened when I was a child? Ok, well as a french-iranian person in the US I received hate from actual people in real life, being called a terrorist, etc, and it only got worse when France rejected the premise of the Iraq war. Republicans started boycotting anything french, breaking wine bottles, etc. My dad's french-iranian restaurant had its windows broken when when this was happening. You don't hear me mentioning it in every comment. Did anything bad actually happen to you? For all I know you were a spoiled kid who watched too much TV and weren't brought up to question what you were told.

Second, are you actually saying that calls for destruction of the US from religious extremists are only concerning if the leader was not well off? When Khomeini didn't even grow up poor at all? It doesn't add up.

The reason it's relevant is because you implied that the primary threat is from Shia islam, even though the vast majority of and most damaging attacks against the US were not by Shias.

I haven't read the HN guidelines in a while looks like I do violate a couple, like calling out people for commenting before reading an article. That should be table stakes, I think. I also have a low tolerance for people seemingly playing dumb, and am guilty of snark for sure. I'm not really sure how to interpret the 'cross-examination style' thing in practice, but you're definitely not following this guideline:

  Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize

Here's your violation sir: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47911155

Do bear with me a moment while I sort your paperwork

[_DeadFred_]

You told me I was lazy for not including 9/11. Your supposed to understand from my response each person comes at things from their own perspective. You keep failing to understand and now find the concept tedious. That's your perspective, that other's perspective is tedious.

I am saying I don't hold random acts by one person against a group. I do however hold the teachings/words/acts of supreme religious leaders as representative of their church/sect/religion (hence I am no longer catholic).

I implied that the threat from Shia religious leaders/scholars only reflects back on shia Islam, and I should not make all of Islam accountable for it.

Old boy calls needlessly me lazy then want's to belittle me for calling him out on it. The response you link to was in response to "Hopefully you can appreciate why your feelings don't trump the ground truth." implying I wasn't being truthful/ignorant of truth, with your ground truth being "I looked, but couldn't find one instance of Iran chanting 'death to america' before Bush's 'axis of evil' comment" something disprovable with the google search 'death to America chant'. But now we are both definitely well into the guidelines, though again mine is in response to your navigating us here.