[lwhi]

I have a friend who bought a fair phone with a view to being able to replace its modular parts. Four years later and the model had been discontinued, so he had to buy a new Fairphone.

Would it more economical and sustainable to buy a second hand / reconditioned feature phone from Samsung?

[amiga386]

I bought a Fairphone 3, released in 2019.

The charging port wore out. I bought another one in 2023. They still sell that part today. https://shop.fairphone.com/shop/fairphone-3-bottom-module-37

In fact, I see they still sell parts (the screen, at least) for the Fairphone 2, released in 2015. First-party parts 10 years later, what a concept! https://shop.fairphone.com/spare-parts

I don't know your friend's scenario, but this was mine.

It's not an either-or, like "either buy first-party parts for a Fairphone OR buy a second-hand Samsung". You can buy a second-hand Fairphone too. It would be nice if you got first-party parts for Samsungs, years after they're released.

[MrJohz]

I bought a second hand Fairphone, and I'm very happy with it, except that my wife, a colleague of mine, and some friends of ours now also gave Fairphones, so when one buzzes we all instinctively check our pockets because they all sound the same...

I also bought headphones from the same company, and while they're probably not the best for audio quality, it was great being able to repair them when the headband broke. Generally, I'm a very happy Fairphone customer.

[freehorse]

> when one buzzes we all instinctively check our pockets because they all sound the same

Isn't that the same for every brand? I have a friend who worked in cybersecurity in a certain phone company and was getting very stressed whenever my phone, which happened to be from the same brand, was ringing :D

I guess one can change the default sound, isn't that the case with fairphones?

[bryanrasmussen]

I have a Samsung Moto, and it has a very default ringtone, not really a tone since it says "Hello, Moto" which is embarrassing but I haven't made the effort to switch tones, at any rate while I will be confused if someone in proximity to me gets a call on their Moto, my experience they don't have to be very far from me before I realize instinctively, that sound is far enough away it can't be my phone, although it irritates me nonetheless.

And I've been seated eating with people who had the same phones and I realized no, it must be their phone (although I feel a strong urge to check), because my ears are able to determine direction of a sound.

I'm also old and keep getting told I'm going deaf, so my question is, are people really not able to tell it's not their phone or are they just not thinking it through before checking.

[eth0up]

Samsung Moto? Two different companies with very different phones. I'm surprised that such a mutant exists. Reads to me Car (with square wheels).

Moto is the only big brand I ever consider for a phone, while Samsung has never been as much as a consideration. Moto has had, which is changing, a bit of freedom - enough to tweak it into resembling a pure android experience. Samsung is incorrigibly infested - and if they ever start giving phones to prisoners, they'll be Samsung.

[bryanrasmussen]

you're right, for some reason I had my son's Samsung Galaxy Tab in mind, and I made the mutant.

My experience with the latest Moto I have is the AI assistant is an anti-pattern but the phone is nearly unusable for a lot of things without it.

[MrJohz]

It's less the sound, and more the buzz when it's on vibration. I've never found a way of changing that, unfortunately. It's probably true for other brands, but I've never really had a phone that other people have also used, whereas now I'm in a (very small) bubble that seems to be happily converging on Fairphones...

[whazor]

This is what makes sense. You want to be able to replace the charging port, screen, and camera. And of-course update the software, where software stability is IMHO the weakest point of Fairphone.

If the logic board breaks, you want to upgrade to the newest chip model you can get. Because third-party software becomes slower every year. If you want a phone to last as long as possible, thus getting the latest chip. For Fairphone it is more interesting, since they use a particular Snapdragon model range with longer driver support.

The elephant in the room is of-course software getting too slow and developer not optimizing their apps.

[xattt]

> In fact, I see they still sell parts (the screen, at least) for the Fairphone 2, released in 2015.

You can still source an iPhone 4s screen+digitizer assembly on eBay for a reasonable price. There is, however, little practical value of it in everyday use.

[deaux]

> It would be nice if you got first-party parts for Samsungs, years after they're released.

You can? They're happy to repair even 7+ year old phones, I'm sure there's a cutoff but I haven't heard of anyone running into it. Might depend on the country though. Unless you mean buying those parts separately but they don't even let you do that for new phones, so "years after they're released" doesn't matter then.

[amiga386]

It's nice that Samsung repair phones, I also don't know how long for, but you can't rely that they always will, and not all phone manufacturers are Samsung. You shouldn't have to rely on the whims of the manufacturer.

This is why phones should be modular so the parts that wear/break first are replaceable, and also why those parts should be available to you and third parties, not gatekept by the manufacturer. Repair companies can then stockpile parts themselves, instead of having to scavenge from dead phones, to repair your existing phone even when the manufacturer refuses.

[normie3000]

My previous phone was a second-hand iPhone SE for which I had screen, power button, big button and battery replaced at various times. I think the battery was third-party & new, but the other parts were also 2nd+ hand. I don't know about newer models, and presumably there are other things that are more "fair" about the fairphone, but it doesn't have a monopoly on repairability in my experience.

[pluralmonad]

You did all those repairs to your iphone yourself? I imagine that was significantly more technically difficult than repairing a Fairphone, which is made to be _user_ serviceable.

[jodrellblank]

Original iPhone SE is relatively easy to work on, two pentalobe screws and a suction cup will get you into it. It’s not waterproof so there’s no glue seals to warm and melt, it’s still mostly screwed together inside, only the battery has glue strips holding it in.

From there I’ve swapped the battery, moved the logic board and home button to a new chassis, taken the camera module out and tried to clean it, had the screen+top chassis off. It’s not for everyone but it’s not technically complex with many specialist tools, it just needs a battery replacement kit, tiny screwdrivers, workspace, and patience.

[normie3000]

Interesting! So I shouldn't expect a similar experience fixing a 13 mini when the time comes?

[jodrellblank]

I've never tried, but the original SE I'm talking about is contemporaneous with the iPhone 5 chassis and iPhone 6 internals. The 13 is 5-6 generations and years newer, and likely more hostile or complex in at least some ways.

[normie3000]

No, I went to a local electronics shop. I don't have a pile of decommissioned phones in my house, nor the eyesight or hand-steadiness for fixing things that small. User-serviceable is definitely a distinction, but I suspect family members would expect me to be their technician anyway, and I'd point them to the electronics shop due to physical issues above, and fear of bricking their devices.

[marci]

If your family members ever had to mount an ikea furniture or equivalent, they'll probably have an as easy or easier time replacing a part on a fairphone. Especially for the battery. At least for version 3 and older. I don't know for later models. If you know how to swap batteries in a tv remote, you know how on this phone.

[throwaway2037]

    > The charging port wore out.

Zero trolling: How did that happen? Can you share some details? (I am not doubting you.) Ideas: You are the type of person who needs to constantly charge your phone, but move frequently, so maybe you have 5x the number of "plugs" compared to an average user. Or, sadly, they used a cheap part, and it broke quickly.

[i80and]

I found USB-C to be pretty unreliable up until the past several years -- I had multiple phones and laptops from multiple brands <=2020 that just had USB-C ports turn fiddly or outright stop working after a year or two.

Things are better now in my experience, but for a device made in 2019, this is pretty darn plausible.

[LoveMortuus]

I feel like, from the hardware point of view, wireless charging should be more durable than using a cable, since the charging connection is done without contact. But then again, wireless charging is less good for the battery then wired, so it's probably a balancing act.

That being said, I know that the moment I switch to a phone that supports wireless charging, I won't be able to go back, so I've just been trying to use the phone I have (POCO X3 Pro) until it'll completely break.

I had the battery replaced, because it was starting to bloat to the point that it was starting to bend the phone. I've had the back panel glued three times, but it still comes off, so now there's always a gap in the phone, most certainly not waterproof anymore, I would have wished that the repair would have been flawless, because as things stand, I am disappointed and had I known that this would be the final result (I could try taking the phone back to the service centre to get it reglued, but I've already done that twice, so now I feel uncomfortable and awkward having to ask yet again, for who know if any improvement.

[aureianimus]

I have this with my phone, but it's because of dust. Did you try cleaning the port?

[amiga386]

I don't know what reliability should be, but my previous phone which a had mini-USB connector also wore out after a few years. I put the phone back on a charging stand whenever I'm home and not using it, so that's maybe 10x a day.

[reorder9695]

I've never worn one out but I've had to replace two after they got filled with sand (once from being dropped on the beach and once just from my pocket I think). No amount of cleaning would fix them, luckily with cheap Chinese phones one ebay search and €10 later I had a new charging port board.

[bojan]

I'm having that issue now on my Pixel 9, and I had it before on Pixel 6. My wife mockingly claims that it's me that keeps breaking the ports, but I've never had this issue on earlier phones.

[Tade0]

> It would be nice if you got first-party parts for Samsungs, years after they're released.

I managed to have the curved screen in my 2017 Galaxy S8 replaced in 2023 or so. I don't recall there being an alternative manufacturer of those.

For flagships at least there seems to be a pool of new-old-stock parts.

[lucideer]

> Four years later and the model had been discontinued

Which model? Was it the FP1? It sounds like your friend was extremely unlucky - FP2 is 11 years old & there's still (a limited subset of) parts for sale for it (display & camera). FP3 (7yo model) still has all the parts for sale.

That said - I'm critical of another aspect of device longevity: software support. I upgraded from my (still working) FP3 to the FP5 because apps I needed stopped working on the highest version of Android supported by FP3. That Android version is still officially supported by Fairphone & receiving security updates but without major version upgrades the app support can be problematic. Obviously that's ultiamtely the fault of bad app devs, but ultimately it's hard to overcome.

[monegator]

>ultimately the fault of bad app devs

More like google's fault. They made a huge mess of completely different permission and behaviour changes between 11, 12, 13. At least since 14 they have stopped fucking around so much.

It is really much simpler for us to cut off all versions before 12, but it's unfeasible. So many devices still with 10/11. Now we cut off at 8.1, but will increase that every year starting next year as google mandates us an increase of minimum sdk version.

[hinata08]

I don't like how companies behave like that and basically push users to upgrade their phones

Garmin in particular makes it mandatory to use their app for SOME connected functionalities (while others work just fine on wifi or wifi tethering). They unsupported old version of android for the garmin connect app pretty fast (my mom's phone was incompatible within 4 years of its release) while they don't support you to connect older devices on newer phones and say they know it doesn't work.

As a user, I don't care whose fault it is.

I ditched both Google in favour of degooglized android on older Xiaomi and Pixel phones that support custom ROMs, and Garmin for any sport equipment.

My next phone will be a Fairphone if they make something with a smaller screen.

I don't know which app you're doing, but I would most likely permanently just not download it or find an open source alternative if it stopped working for me, as no app is essential. Pay attention to the user-base, in particular is your app is supposed to work with a web of users.

[monegator]

While i always try to look for open source utility apps (i use several), our userbase simply don't care.

Context: Our apps are means to connect to our devices via BLE, are free and without ads (fuck ads, fuck all ads), no integrity checks. We don't publish the API but we know of a couple of clients that reverse engineered the protocol and made their own. Good for them. (one of them also came by the office to bring a friend and showed us his app that glued together the functionality of several modules from also our competitors. Cool!)

But given what we do our customers are complete normies, doing what google asks us is the path of least resistance, and gets us most audience.

Those who don't want to use the play store can find the APK in the usual sites, don't care.

If i made app for myself i would indeed distribute it differently.

[torginus]

I haven't done Android dev in a while, but I remember the Android SDK offered a 'backwards compatibility pack' - you selected which version you wanted to target, and how old a version you wanted to support (you could go back to like android 5) and it gave you all the polyfills necessary. The only downside was that your app size would balloon to crazy levels.

[monegator]

It's more or less what minimumsdk does, but there may be libraries that require you to bump the minimum.

For example, there are APIs that make feasible something that should be trivial (like autosizing a font based on size, the way it happens in iOS) but they are available from 8.0 so you cut out anything below that.

Or, we use BLE a lot and there are newer methods that makes our life easier but again are not available in older SDK versions

[9029]

That "officially supported" comes with a huge asterisk though. Security bulletins for old android versions already only include backports of high severity patches. On top of that the device also gets no security patches for firmware or kernel, as the hardware and kernel are eol. The FP5 is also on an eol kernel after less than 3 years, not that they were providing kernel updates in the first place. https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand...

[tcfhgj]

What apps?

I use a FP3 too, but I am a little surprised

[poulpy123]

I don't know for fair phone but I was not able to install tailscale for my old Samsung Galaxy S2 tablet. Fortunately I was able to install an XDA rom

[lucideer]

Banking. It's always banking.

[wongarsu]

They are currently on the Fairphone 6, and at least in Germany the official online store still sells a wide selection of parts for the Fairphones 3-6, and the display and camera for the Fairphone 2.

Sure, you don't get meaningful hardware upgrades (apparently there were some small ones), and Fairphone are far from the only ones selling spare parts for their phones. But in terms of keeping old phones alive with authentic parts and easy to execute disassembly steps, they are pretty good

[guerrilla]

Plus you can buy them second hand pretty eaeily too.

[benrutter]

I guess maybe if the comparison you're looking at is the one you mentioned? Second hand normally beats everything else since it's avoiding what would other wise be waste, and there's nothing new that needs to be manufactured.

That said, I bought a fairphone about 4 years ago, in that time, I've had a bunch of issues that'd have meant replacing the phone for other non-fairphone models (this list doesn't make me look great at taking care of things): - USB charger broke after getting mortar in it - Screen broke after dropping the phone directly onto screen - Battery replacement (due to age, not my fault this time!) - Screen broken yesterday after dropping my phone onto concrete after falling over during a run.

If I'd had a Samsung, or non-repairable phone of another kind, I'd be buying my fourth phone today, instead I ordered a spare part and will repair things easily in a couple of days when it arrives.

So, hard to beat the sustainability of second hand tech, but definitely from an economical point of view, my fairphone has easily been a good call.

Of course your mileage may vary, especially if you are better at taking care of things than me.

Edit: worth saying, the fairphone 4 was discontinued a year or so ago, but that isn't the same as saying parts aren't made for it. Spare parts are still really easy to get hold of.

[aurareturn]

Many repair shops will replace your screen and battery for you. It’s pretty standard. You don’t need a Fair phone to do that.

[tcfhgj]

A friend of mine had a broken finger print reader (a few cents online), he couldn't find any repair shop who wanted to repair it (probably because the display would have to removed).

[aurareturn]

I don't know about Android phones but how often does FaceID/TouchID break? I'd bet it's extremely rare.

I personally don't think it's worth it to buy a Fair phone for the extremely low chance that a component breaks and you can't get it repaired.

[benrutter]

> I personally don't think it's worth it to buy a Fair phone for the extremely low chance that a component breaks and you can't get it repaired.

I might be misreading you, but this comes across a little like "that one use case doesn't prove you need a fairphone so don't buy a fairphone".

I don't think most people are evaluating tech like that. Only a zealot is going to consider a fairphone as the only option, they probably are looking at a bunch of criteria and options.

There's no correct answer to "what phone should I buy?" in a way that could be proven / argued for. I think people here are just saying fairphones have great repairability.

[benrutter]

That's true-ish. The repairability of phones varies a lot, with some even having batteries glued into the model.

If you're just considering repairability, a fairphone is almost certainly one of your best options. But like you point out, that doesn't mean all other options can't be repaired at all.

[fainpul]

But for Fairphone repairs you don't even need a repair shop.

[fainpul]

> Second hand normally beats everything else since it's avoiding what would other wise be waste, and there's nothing new that needs to be manufactured.

That's a fallacy. By buying second hand, you enable the second hand market (people get better prices for selling their first hand phones). There are users who always buy the latest iPhones (or other flagship device) and sell their previous one. In effect you, as a second hand buyer, use the devices in the second part of their full lifetime, the first buyer uses the device in the first part. The device is used the full duration of its usability, which is good, but it's not better than if the first buyer would use it for the full duration. Nothing is saved overall.

[amiga386]

> Nothing is saved overall.

This is not true. You're missing that, if there is no second-hand market, phones get an early, premature grave, meaning more e-waste.

Imagine there are 10 million people in the world and they all want a phone. 1 million neophiles only ever want the latest phone, released yearly. The other 9 million are luddites who are OK with a second-hand phone. All phones last exactly 10 years before failing, and never become obsolete or damaged.

No second-hand market allowed: 1.9m phones sold per year, 1.9m discarded.

Neophiles buy and discard 1m phones (into the dump with 9 years of life left). Luddites buy and discard 900,000 phones (they have no second-hand market to buy from, so they buy new phones, but they use them for full 10 years instead of just 1, so the 9 million only buy/discard 900,000 phones per year on average).

Second-hand market allowed: 1m phones sold per year, 1m discarded. 900,000 less!

Neophiles buy 1m new phones but sell their old phones to luddites, discarding none. Luddites then use them for 9 more years before discarding. There are 9 million luddites with 9 years of phone use meaning they need an average of 1m second-hand phones per year, which happens to be how many are on the market thanks to the neophiles.

[yunohn]

> That’s a fallacy.

> Nothing is saved overall.

This might be the most ridiculous POV of the second-hand market I’ve ever read.

There’s definitely some people who are buying new phones purely because they are ok with eating the difference between the new phone’s cost price and the old one’s sale price. I’m certain that’s a tiny niche of the entire market. And there’s the even smaller niche that actually use their phone till its very last breath. On the other hand, there’s an immeasurably larger part of the new phone market, formed of people who just buy a new phone anyways when they feel like it and leave the old one in their drawer.

Source: User surveys and research I conducted in another life

[darkwater]

> Second hand normally beats everything else

Well, also buying out-of-production new phones (i.e. 1 or 2 gen behind) it's saving phones to be e-waste without having been used even once. Although I guess that companies manage stocks also with this signal in mind, so a 2nd-hand is always better.

[sriacha]

Not sure that's valid; in my experience Samsung phones are fairly repairable* and have spare parts available worldwide. Guessing Fairphone parts are much more limited.

* probably much more fiddly than a fairphone though

[benrutter]

Can't speak to availability outside of Europe, but parts are sold by the manufacturer directly for fairphone, so they're very easy to get hold of if you can buy a fairphone in the first place.

Me saying "a samsung" probably isn't helpful since different models vary. Here's some ratings and detail of repairing major smartphone models though if you're interested: https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-repairabilit...

[pera]

I guess it was a Fairphone 2 from 2015? They are still selling screens, cases and camera modules but not the rest of the parts unfortunately:

https://shop.fairphone.com/shop/category/spare-parts-4?categ...

[keraf]

I bought a Fairphone 3+ years ago and, as much as I want to support this company, it was a huge disappointment. I switched to an iPhone after using it for less than three years, which is less than the life span I was hoping to use it for.

Within a year, the USB port wore out. Contacted the support as the phone was under warranty and was given two options: Order the replacement part online and get reimbursed for it. Or send the entire phone back, but it would get wiped clean.

I had some data that wasn't backed up and didn't want to loose, and because I couldn't charge it, I decided to go for the first option. It's supposed to be easily reparable, why go through the hassle of sending it back? Well the problem was that the part was unavailable on their store for months. I even looked at third party stores, that specific part couldn't be found anywhere in Europe. After three months of having a "repairable" paperweight on my desk, the part was finally available and I could change it (replacing it took seconds and I've done it while sitting at a café, gotta give credit to Fairphone for that).

Meanwhile, I see my friends with their iPhones getting them repaired within a few days or even the same day! Battery change, charging port replacement, screen change, etc. All could be easily and quickly done by a local repair shop.

In the end I realised it's not about how easy it is to repair your phone, it's about the availability of spare parts. iPhones, especially a few years ago, make it difficult to be repaired. Yet, they are the easiest to get repaired. Fairphone's spare parts are specific to their phones, and even specific to some models. Using generic parts or having some compatible across models would create more need for them = more parts available.

[jraph]

Environmentally speaking, (re)using existing hardware / buying second hand probably beats everything.

[deaux]

Absolutely. If you want to even pretend to care about the environment, the very first step is starting to buy almost everything over $100 second hand. The added benefit is that it has lots of other societally positive effects! It has one of the very highest "sacrifices made vs. societal benefit" ratios there is. Please stop buying "environmentally friendly" gadgets and equipment and start buying "unfriendly" ones second-hand. There are very few categories of products where the efficiency gains made over the last decade mean you should buy new. Certainly less than 1% of purchases we make.

[mstipetic]

I do that but I also feel kinda bad since I feel I’m taking it instead of someone else who’s more budget constrained than me

[deaux]

You're providing income to someone whose almost definitely more constrained than you. Without you, no one may have bought it. And the other comment is right - it's a buyers market, we need more buyers, there's a surplus of sellers. Another thing - if sellers more quickly and more easily get to sell their stuff second hand thanks to you, they're more incentivized to sell more in the future as well instead of keeping it in a drawer or throwing it in the trash.

You're doing great for everyone involved!

[jraph]

You shouldn't, really. I don't think there's shortage in the second hand market. We probably need more people reusing stuff.

[tcfhgj]

What matters is how long devices are used, not how often the owner changes.

[jraph]

That's right, and buying new and taking very good care of your stuff + using to the point of being unusable probably beats serial-buying second hand devices you mistreat.

There has to be second hand users tough, otherwise the second hand devices that, for a reason or another, are not used to the end by their original buyer never get used again.

[danelski]

I am fine with having a phone with specs that are 3+ years old. I'm not, however, fine with loosing software support shortly buying it or the first repair knocking it out, because the parts are not available or the labour cost makes the repair unreasonable for its value.

Actually, taking on used phones with unknown history means that you'll likely end up 'bottom-feeding' where each unit bought is cheap, but you'll need to exchange them often. This strategy is even harder for less-interested who can't say what's the EOL for a phone model.

Maybe my argument doesn't hold in richer societies where you are effectively subsidised by people who'd still exchange phones every 2 years making them better value.

[thaumasiotes]

> I have a friend who bought a fair phone with a view to being able to replace its modular parts. Four years later and the model had been discontinued

I was also very surprised to learn this. Incompatible models are the opposite of modular parts. Fairphone apparently was happy to throw away 95%+ of the value of having "modular" parts.

[vovavili]

I often wonder why there still hasn't been a YC-backed attempt to disrupt the "replace your phone every couple of years because your battery became slower" cartel in 2026. Seems like such a low-hanging fruit, especially given the very visible success of companies like Framework.

[lbreakjai]

Am I missing something? I've kept the iPhones I bought for 6 years or so. I replaced the battery on each phone, and all it cost me was 50€ and half an hour waiting for the local non-Apple phone shop to do the work. That surely counts as batteries being replaceable in all but name?

[eloisant]

I'm happy that worked out for you, but the whole cryptography signature of Apple batteries that throttle your phone if you get the wrong one is VERY different from "just pop out the back and get your new battery in".

[testdelacc1]

I feel like the price Apple charges for batteries is very reasonable. I kept my phone going for 4.5 years thanks to a battery replacement 2 years in. They’re basically doing it at cost, considering parts and labour.

Also, your information is slightly out of date. It’s possible to do the replacement yourself if you want. Here’s an ifixit guide based on apples official repair guide - https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+17+Battery+Replacement/1...

[marci]

It is so, so long... I barely reached the middle before my brain just "Nope."

They are talking about this kind of battery replacement: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Fairphone+3+Battery+Replacement... . The "TV remote" battery replacement kind.

[hobofan]

> Seems like such a low-hanging fruit, especially given the very visible success of companies like Framework.

Is there very visible success of Framework? How many people in your everyday live have you encountered with a Framework laptop?

I love there mission, but Framework from all the feedback from users online seems to still be a product that you'll only buy if you put sustainability over performance/convenience.

> a YC-backed attempt

If any successful attempt would be launched, there would be no reason for it to go through YC. In the mass consumer hardware market their little funding and the network they provide doesn't do much. I would strongly assume that a challenger would appear in a similar form as it did with framework with nrp.

[abdullahkhalids]

> Is there very visible success of Framework? How many people in your everyday live have you encountered with a Framework laptop?

A company that captures most/the entire market is not what is being asked for. Only a financially viable company that provides value to people looking for a certain type of product. Framework is certainly that in its own domain. And something similar could be built for phones.

[vovavili]

>still be a product that you'll only buy if you put sustainability over performance/convenience

That would product that I and countless others would be gladly willing to buy on the smartphone market.

[NoboruWataya]

At what price though? There are many people who say they would buy a phone like Fairphone, but not at that price, or not unless it had a 3.5mm headphone jack or a better camera, etc etc. Talk is cheap but sustainable phones are not.

[hobofan]

So are you buying a Fairphone right now? Because from my rough estimation Framework and Fairphone are about the same when it comes to performance/convenience tradeoff right now.

I mostly focused on the "YC disruption" part in GPs question without considering whether there is actually an opening for a disruptor. I think Fairphone may already be filling that gap.

[vovavili]

I don't see a reason to buy a new phones when I can buy refurbished flagships from a couple of years prior. The fact that this is the best option available is precisely what strikes me as being so straightforward to fix.

[hobofan]

So what would your straightforward "fix" look like? Buying refurbished phones is nothing to "fix", and undercutting the psychological effect of pre-ownership price-drops is essentially impossible.

I'm really not sure what you are getting at.

[aurareturn]

Is the average Framework truly more environmentally than an average MacBook.

MacBooks tend to last a long time. I used my 2012 Macbook Air for 7-8 years easily. It's still working today. My M1 Pro 16" has had no issues at all for nearly 4 years. They’re extremely reliable (except butterfly era).

Personally, I don’t think Framework laptops are. I think they are only more environmentally if you upgrade your MacBook every year or every other year. I think this is extremely niche. Not only are you getting a laptop with much worse battery life, noise, heat, screen, build quality, you are also getting a significantly slower CPU and GPU. AMD and Intel chips simply can't keep up with Apple Silicon.

[prmoustache]

I don't know I had contemplated buying a second hand macbook for a family member and...most macbook available in the second hand market have hardware issues. Every time I checked laptops in the 300-500euros price range it was easier to find a lenovo thinkpad, dell latitude, or fujitsu in good conditions with a fresh new battery and ssd installed than it was finding a macbook.

[eloisant]

Yes it is.

One thing important to take into account in the life of a device is what happens when it's thrown out.

A friend of mine works at an electronics recycling facility, and with regular desktop or laptop they're able to take them apart to scavenge some rare metals, separate inert materials like cases from dangerous ones like the battery.

That's much more costly for Apple products because of how they're integrated, so they end up not recycling much.

[aurareturn]

Doesn't Apple recycle them for you if you trade them in?

[eloisant]

I guess they do, but if you bring them to your local recycling center they'll probably won't get much for it.

Which sucks, because that means even for recycling responsibly you're again tied to Apple.

[izacus]

Yes, it absolutely is. Fair phones won't be scrapped because the company killed them remotely like MacBooks: https://www.vice.com/en/article/apple-macbook-activation-loc...

[vladms]

Can't say about Framework, but between a Macbook and a Dell, that both got a glass of water on them, the Macbook was completely unusable, while the Dell still works (except issues with GPU) 5 years after the incident, after only one day in service for cleaning.

[eldaisfish]

your anecdote doesn't prove or disprove anything.

the most reliable test of durability is prices in the second-hand market. Apple laptops hold their value very well.

[vladms]

It proves or disproves as much as the op which said:

> MacBooks tend to last a long time. I used my 2012 Macbook Air for 7-8 years easily. It's still working today.

There are multiple things that are valuable, without that being a proof or durability.

Note that I am not saying Apple products "are" or "are not" durable. But if we talk about anecdotes then there are both ways. I would have liked to find some neutral, longer term analysis, but a fast internet search did not turn up anything that seemed relevant (only anecdotes and opinions).

[darkwater]

They are reliable but, are they marketed as such? How many HNers are routinely upgrading their 3 years old MBP just because they can and they want a new one? I bet many

[aurareturn]

HNers are very niche. My point stands.

[darkwater]

I think that the average Apple MB user is pretty loyal to the brand and updates HW much more than a Dell / Lenovo / HP / whatever

[KeplerBoy]

Because phones are incredibly cheap and its hard to compete with that.

You can get something like a "Motorola Moto G86 5G" for less than 200$ and that comes with a 120 hz full hd screen, 8 gigs of ram, 5200 mAh battery and so on. Basically everything you could ever need unless you're deep into photography or gaming. Instead of ordering a battery at 40$ and replacing it, I might as well buy an entire new phone and get a minor upgrade on everything every few years.

[vovavili]

Minor upgradability might as well be baked into a phone.

[jojobas]

Because people who don't want to buy a shiny gadget every couple of years and would rather pay more upfront and use for longer are a small minority.

[touwer]

Too much hearsay. Details please

[mfld]

My wife has a Fairphone 4, released 2021. The earpiece broke. I ordered a replacement; it arrived within 3 days and was very easy to replace. So a good experience with that.

[thenthenthen]

This. Fairphone is not much different from any other company or actual hardware. Electronics are modular already…

[torginus]

I gave my 7 year old iPhone XS (which still works perfectly and fast, and gets updates) to my mum. The battery was at 70% so I decided to get a replacement. The local malls repair shop had a spare battery in stock - they fixed it while I bought groceries.

[Neil44]

You get longer support than that on Pixels