[vovavili]

I often wonder why there still hasn't been a YC-backed attempt to disrupt the "replace your phone every couple of years because your battery became slower" cartel in 2026. Seems like such a low-hanging fruit, especially given the very visible success of companies like Framework.

[lbreakjai]

Am I missing something? I've kept the iPhones I bought for 6 years or so. I replaced the battery on each phone, and all it cost me was 50€ and half an hour waiting for the local non-Apple phone shop to do the work. That surely counts as batteries being replaceable in all but name?

[eloisant]

I'm happy that worked out for you, but the whole cryptography signature of Apple batteries that throttle your phone if you get the wrong one is VERY different from "just pop out the back and get your new battery in".

[testdelacc1]

I feel like the price Apple charges for batteries is very reasonable. I kept my phone going for 4.5 years thanks to a battery replacement 2 years in. They’re basically doing it at cost, considering parts and labour.

Also, your information is slightly out of date. It’s possible to do the replacement yourself if you want. Here’s an ifixit guide based on apples official repair guide - https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+17+Battery+Replacement/1...

[marci]

It is so, so long... I barely reached the middle before my brain just "Nope."

They are talking about this kind of battery replacement: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Fairphone+3+Battery+Replacement... . The "TV remote" battery replacement kind.

[hobofan]

> Seems like such a low-hanging fruit, especially given the very visible success of companies like Framework.

Is there very visible success of Framework? How many people in your everyday live have you encountered with a Framework laptop?

I love there mission, but Framework from all the feedback from users online seems to still be a product that you'll only buy if you put sustainability over performance/convenience.

> a YC-backed attempt

If any successful attempt would be launched, there would be no reason for it to go through YC. In the mass consumer hardware market their little funding and the network they provide doesn't do much. I would strongly assume that a challenger would appear in a similar form as it did with framework with nrp.

[abdullahkhalids]

> Is there very visible success of Framework? How many people in your everyday live have you encountered with a Framework laptop?

A company that captures most/the entire market is not what is being asked for. Only a financially viable company that provides value to people looking for a certain type of product. Framework is certainly that in its own domain. And something similar could be built for phones.

[vovavili]

>still be a product that you'll only buy if you put sustainability over performance/convenience

That would product that I and countless others would be gladly willing to buy on the smartphone market.

[NoboruWataya]

At what price though? There are many people who say they would buy a phone like Fairphone, but not at that price, or not unless it had a 3.5mm headphone jack or a better camera, etc etc. Talk is cheap but sustainable phones are not.

[hobofan]

So are you buying a Fairphone right now? Because from my rough estimation Framework and Fairphone are about the same when it comes to performance/convenience tradeoff right now.

I mostly focused on the "YC disruption" part in GPs question without considering whether there is actually an opening for a disruptor. I think Fairphone may already be filling that gap.

[vovavili]

I don't see a reason to buy a new phones when I can buy refurbished flagships from a couple of years prior. The fact that this is the best option available is precisely what strikes me as being so straightforward to fix.

[hobofan]

So what would your straightforward "fix" look like? Buying refurbished phones is nothing to "fix", and undercutting the psychological effect of pre-ownership price-drops is essentially impossible.

I'm really not sure what you are getting at.

[vovavili]

>So what would your straightforward "fix" look like?

A repairable powerful phone with replaceable battery and pathways to minor upgradability that you can trust not to fuck you over long-term. I.E. the closest equivalent of Framework to smartphones.

[aurareturn]

Is the average Framework truly more environmentally than an average MacBook.

MacBooks tend to last a long time. I used my 2012 Macbook Air for 7-8 years easily. It's still working today. My M1 Pro 16" has had no issues at all for nearly 4 years. They’re extremely reliable (except butterfly era).

Personally, I don’t think Framework laptops are. I think they are only more environmentally if you upgrade your MacBook every year or every other year. I think this is extremely niche. Not only are you getting a laptop with much worse battery life, noise, heat, screen, build quality, you are also getting a significantly slower CPU and GPU. AMD and Intel chips simply can't keep up with Apple Silicon.

[prmoustache]

I don't know I had contemplated buying a second hand macbook for a family member and...most macbook available in the second hand market have hardware issues. Every time I checked laptops in the 300-500euros price range it was easier to find a lenovo thinkpad, dell latitude, or fujitsu in good conditions with a fresh new battery and ssd installed than it was finding a macbook.

[eloisant]

Yes it is.

One thing important to take into account in the life of a device is what happens when it's thrown out.

A friend of mine works at an electronics recycling facility, and with regular desktop or laptop they're able to take them apart to scavenge some rare metals, separate inert materials like cases from dangerous ones like the battery.

That's much more costly for Apple products because of how they're integrated, so they end up not recycling much.

[aurareturn]

Doesn't Apple recycle them for you if you trade them in?

[eloisant]

I guess they do, but if you bring them to your local recycling center they'll probably won't get much for it.

Which sucks, because that means even for recycling responsibly you're again tied to Apple.

[izacus]

Yes, it absolutely is. Fair phones won't be scrapped because the company killed them remotely like MacBooks: https://www.vice.com/en/article/apple-macbook-activation-loc...

[vladms]

Can't say about Framework, but between a Macbook and a Dell, that both got a glass of water on them, the Macbook was completely unusable, while the Dell still works (except issues with GPU) 5 years after the incident, after only one day in service for cleaning.

[eldaisfish]

your anecdote doesn't prove or disprove anything.

the most reliable test of durability is prices in the second-hand market. Apple laptops hold their value very well.

[vladms]

It proves or disproves as much as the op which said:

> MacBooks tend to last a long time. I used my 2012 Macbook Air for 7-8 years easily. It's still working today.

There are multiple things that are valuable, without that being a proof or durability.

Note that I am not saying Apple products "are" or "are not" durable. But if we talk about anecdotes then there are both ways. I would have liked to find some neutral, longer term analysis, but a fast internet search did not turn up anything that seemed relevant (only anecdotes and opinions).

[darkwater]

They are reliable but, are they marketed as such? How many HNers are routinely upgrading their 3 years old MBP just because they can and they want a new one? I bet many

[aurareturn]

HNers are very niche. My point stands.

[darkwater]

I think that the average Apple MB user is pretty loyal to the brand and updates HW much more than a Dell / Lenovo / HP / whatever

[KeplerBoy]

Because phones are incredibly cheap and its hard to compete with that.

You can get something like a "Motorola Moto G86 5G" for less than 200$ and that comes with a 120 hz full hd screen, 8 gigs of ram, 5200 mAh battery and so on. Basically everything you could ever need unless you're deep into photography or gaming. Instead of ordering a battery at 40$ and replacing it, I might as well buy an entire new phone and get a minor upgrade on everything every few years.

[vovavili]

Minor upgradability might as well be baked into a phone.

[jojobas]

Because people who don't want to buy a shiny gadget every couple of years and would rather pay more upfront and use for longer are a small minority.