[aurareturn]

Is the average Framework truly more environmentally than an average MacBook.

MacBooks tend to last a long time. I used my 2012 Macbook Air for 7-8 years easily. It's still working today. My M1 Pro 16" has had no issues at all for nearly 4 years. They’re extremely reliable (except butterfly era).

Personally, I don’t think Framework laptops are. I think they are only more environmentally if you upgrade your MacBook every year or every other year. I think this is extremely niche. Not only are you getting a laptop with much worse battery life, noise, heat, screen, build quality, you are also getting a significantly slower CPU and GPU. AMD and Intel chips simply can't keep up with Apple Silicon.

[prmoustache]

I don't know I had contemplated buying a second hand macbook for a family member and...most macbook available in the second hand market have hardware issues. Every time I checked laptops in the 300-500euros price range it was easier to find a lenovo thinkpad, dell latitude, or fujitsu in good conditions with a fresh new battery and ssd installed than it was finding a macbook.

[eloisant]

Yes it is.

One thing important to take into account in the life of a device is what happens when it's thrown out.

A friend of mine works at an electronics recycling facility, and with regular desktop or laptop they're able to take them apart to scavenge some rare metals, separate inert materials like cases from dangerous ones like the battery.

That's much more costly for Apple products because of how they're integrated, so they end up not recycling much.

[aurareturn]

Doesn't Apple recycle them for you if you trade them in?

[eloisant]

I guess they do, but if you bring them to your local recycling center they'll probably won't get much for it.

Which sucks, because that means even for recycling responsibly you're again tied to Apple.

[izacus]

Yes, it absolutely is. Fair phones won't be scrapped because the company killed them remotely like MacBooks: https://www.vice.com/en/article/apple-macbook-activation-loc...

[vladms]

Can't say about Framework, but between a Macbook and a Dell, that both got a glass of water on them, the Macbook was completely unusable, while the Dell still works (except issues with GPU) 5 years after the incident, after only one day in service for cleaning.

[eldaisfish]

your anecdote doesn't prove or disprove anything.

the most reliable test of durability is prices in the second-hand market. Apple laptops hold their value very well.

[vladms]

It proves or disproves as much as the op which said:

> MacBooks tend to last a long time. I used my 2012 Macbook Air for 7-8 years easily. It's still working today.

There are multiple things that are valuable, without that being a proof or durability.

Note that I am not saying Apple products "are" or "are not" durable. But if we talk about anecdotes then there are both ways. I would have liked to find some neutral, longer term analysis, but a fast internet search did not turn up anything that seemed relevant (only anecdotes and opinions).

[darkwater]

They are reliable but, are they marketed as such? How many HNers are routinely upgrading their 3 years old MBP just because they can and they want a new one? I bet many

[aurareturn]

HNers are very niche. My point stands.

[darkwater]

I think that the average Apple MB user is pretty loyal to the brand and updates HW much more than a Dell / Lenovo / HP / whatever