[varbhat]

Until the time when Microsoft realises this and creates a privileged API just for Microsoft Recall so that It can see the screen.

Better switch to Linux. It's not perfect but I am sure that you will be fine using Linux(Unless you want to use Adobe Suite or Few Corporate applications which won't be used by many)

[pjc50]

As mentioned at the bottom, there's another API, which is to flag the window as containing DRM'd content. Although I suppose there's not really anything to stop AI vendors doing copyright infringement if they want.

[Almondsetat]

If you flag your browser as DRM content then people won't be able to take screenshots, except maybe with the included browser utility

[delusional]

DRM'd content was never implemented out of fear of "copyright infringement" it was built to solidify corporate connections. Microsoft implements DRM mechanisms to incentivize copyright holders to provide better service on their platforms.

AI doesn't have less respect for Copyright than any other tech company. AI has less need for the corporate connections to those copyright holders.

This of course comes from the neoliberal philosophy where the only remedy you have is to withdraw service. We've gutted the actual rights of actual creatives.

[ChocolateGod]

Couldn't that negatively effect accessibility tools?

[hbn]

Yes

> We were partly inspired by Signal’s blocking of Recall. Given that Windows doesn’t let non-browser apps granularly disable Recall, Signal cleverly uses the DRM flag on their app to disable all screenshots. This breaks Recall, but unfortunately also breaks the ability to take any screenshots, including by legitimate accessibility software like screen-readers. Brave’s approach does not have this limitation since we’re able to granularly disable just Recall; regular screenshotting will still work. While it’s heartening that Microsoft recognizes that Web browsers are especially privacy-sensitive applications, we hope they offer the same granular ability to turn off Recall to all privacy-minded application developers.

[marcthe12]

Yes and screen recoders

[bobajeff]

Well for those who are stuck with Windows because of some applications or simply because of familiarity. My suggestion is to stay on an older release as long as possible. If that isn't possible I would recommend keeping the computer turned off most of the time and only briefly using it for your purpose and try to keep from doing anything embarrassing or personal too much. Another thing that might help is calling up your local government and ask them to do something about this. You can also call Windows customer service up and let them know that you are displeased about what they've done and will not be recommending it to your friends as a result.

[0x02f0bcd4]

With windows 10 lifetime coming to an end, even though the Enterprise edition still going to be supported for some while, eventually the world will move on to Windows 11.

Unless someone breaks that cycle of Windows being the dominant OS.

[queuebert]

And RIP my perfectly good and working computer without a TPM chip. Guess I'll switch it to Linux ...

[black3r]

Are you sure your computer really doesn't have TPM? Because Intel CPUs since Haswell and AMD CPUs since Zen 1 have firmware-level TPM (implemented at the Intel ME / AMD PSP side) built in, but disabled by default, but you can mostly turn it on in BIOS/UEFI setup interface (if the BIOS supports it), and Windows 11 will work with it. And sometimes even discrete TPMs on motherboards come disabled by default.

If you haven't already, check your BIOS for TPM/fTPM settings (or if you're on Intel also look for "Intel Platform Trust Technology" or "Intel PTT").

[bongodongobob]

Go ahead. You're not their customer, they couldn't care less. Enterprise is their customer.

[smusamashah]

Video games. Linux can play lots with Proton I have heard but not all.

[hodgehog11]

It's multiplayer games with anti-cheat that are the ones not supported (with developers now having to go out of their way to turn OFF support for Linux); everything else works fine. If you're only into singleplayer (like me), games often run better on Linux.

[nazgulsenpai]

To expand on this and provide some examples, I've recently played Wuthering Waves, Tower of Fantasy, The First Descendant, Phantasy Star Online 2, Black Desert, Lost Ark, Throne & Liberty, probably others I'm forgetting, all of which contain anti-cheat of some variety and all on Linux.

There are some that don't support Linux and likely never will like Valorant or Call of Duty, and even fewer that dropped Linux support like Apex Legends.

[tumsfestival]

Mostly mobile ported gacha and Korean MMOs. It's good that it runs on Linux for you, but most people don't play these games. Most people are interested exactly in the ones you've listed as not supported.

[guappa]

Windows 10 cannot play a lot of non windows 10 games.

[johnisgood]

I also recommend https://github.com/LeDragoX/Win-Debloat-Tools to debloat your Windows 10-11.

Familiarity is not really a good reason against Linux, however. Just install a Linux distro that comes close in looks. What are these Linux distributions these days? Pop OS? Elementary OS? Most people are only using their browsers anyway.

[__rito__]

Linux Mint remains the most stable, least babysitting required, solid distro for beginners. Ubuntu is also okay. Pop, Zorin, Elementary, etc. are great choices, too. But if you ask me one, I will suggest Linux Mint. All Linux Mint releases are Long Time Support (LTS) versions, btw. With support for five years.

[hodgehog11]

Pop is woefully out of date at this point due to the ongoing alpha development of COSMIC. I switched off because a whole bunch of Nvidia-related things started breaking. LTS doesn't seem ideal for Nvidia in my experience.

[__rito__]

I just have seamless experience with Ubuntu.

Wdym about LTS not being ideal for NVIDIA?

The OS receives updates, NVIDIA drivers also do. What is the problem?

Am I missing something?

[hodgehog11]

The latest NVIDIA drivers (576+ I think?) are totally broken on Ubuntu 22.04 variants and seem to require 24+. That was my experience anyway, I tried everything I could to get it to work, but PopOS would never boot under those drivers unless I upgraded to the alpha builds on Ubuntu 24. Forced me to switch to Fedora in the end (I needed those drivers for work) which worked seamlessly.

[poulpy123]

Familiarity is shorthand for time and energy. Neither of them are infinite.

Ironically your second sentence is an example of the impact on time and energy the switch will have: someone who just decided to switch from windows to linux will have to take the time and spend the energy to chose between the dozen of linux distributions before any practical consideration.

[johnisgood]

Well, I have been told by many people to install Windows on their PC or laptop. I installed Linux instead. They were quite happy with that.

If you want it out of the box, there are laptops out there with Linux pre-installed, but it is not as common, unfortunately.

So I do not see the irony. They usually ask someone to install an OS, or they buy a computer pre-installed with an OS.

[poulpy123]

If you do all the work, they indeed don't need to spend time and energy on the switch itself, and even better if their usage is limited enough they don't encounter missing software or incompatibilities with the windows world.

The irony is that before doing the work for the switch, and even before doing the work of checking if the switch is feasible for their need, they will need to spend time and energy to select which linux distrib they should choose. Switching from linux to windows of macos doesn't have this issue

[johnisgood]

So the problem with switching to Linux is that they have to spend the time and energy to choose a Linux distribution? If we are to nitpick, it is not that easy with Windows either. Which Windows version? Which torrent is the right one? The last question is because most people here do not have a legit copy, they torrent it. It took me longer to find the right version of Windows to torrent than to search for "top Linux distributions for beginners".

[phyzome]

You're not "stuck" due to familiarity. That's a choice. A choice you're free to make, but still a choice.

[ekianjo]

> Well for those who are stuck with Windows because of some applications or simply because of familiarity

its a pain for most people at first but its never too late to do the switch.

[dotancohen]

Most people use Windows for little more than running the web browser today. I've literally switched dozens of people over to Ubuntu variants (actually Kubuntu) over the years, and it's only getting easier and easier as everyone moves everything to the web browser.

[glimshe]

Or most professional audio applications...

[louthy]

Bitwig works on Linux, but the problem I had was that my pro-audio soundcard [1] didn’t have supported drivers and I couldn’t get the open source drivers to work. I tried switching to a Dante based solution: none of the Dante based apps worked, so I tried AES67 (open source Dante), still no joy — I just could not get my Dante/AES67 AD/DA converters (which attach to everything in my studio) to be ‘seen’ on Linux.

So after weeks trying to get a high-channel count I/O solution working, I gave in, I found the best thing to do was to just get a M4 Mac Mini for my audio/studio work. And leave Linux for everything else. I was setup within an hour on macOS.

There’s unfortunately still too much resistance and it can cost $1000s trying to get to a working solution or ultimately in my case: a non-working solution. It cost me about $6000 trying various options — not all wasted, but still, not cheap to find out that nothing works.

[1] https://rme-audio.de/hdspe-madi-fx.html

[glimshe]

"It works BUT" summarizes my experience with running my top applications on Linux, unfortunately :(

[dotancohen]

Which apps are those?

[AndroidKitKat]

For me, there's a small handful of games that keep me from using Linux on my main PC - RuneScape and League of Legends. RuneScape has some nasty bugs where the GPU isn't detected when running under Wayland, but if you run the game via Proton-thru-Steam you don't have access to all your accounts (I occasionally play on two). League of Legends just straight up doesn't work at all after they added their rootkit-as-anticheat, but it's the only way I keep in touch with some friends.

[gchamonlive]

I was able to run Ableton on Linux once, but it was finnicky and didn't give me the confidence if I ever had to do a performance live with it. Unfortunately there are fields that couldn't care less about software freedom and ownership and Microsoft abuse this for profit.

[amanaplanacanal]

I'm an old guy who has run Linux off and on from the very beginning. Every so often I attempt to replace my windows laptop with Linux, and it always turns into days of dinking around with configuration hacks and installing this and that and the other thing trying to get all my software to work. There always some roadblock that prevents migrating completely. Eventually I always end up going back to Windows. I wish it weren't so.

[dfedbeef]

The reliable way to do this (I found) is check the kernel source tree first. The supported pro sound cards are, typically, kind of old. Because FOSS developers aren't just gifted hardware and documentation to write the drivers so they're a generation or two behind.

Counterintuitively; using the latest kernel can be more stable as bug fixes are merged.

RME does have a few supported cards (I use one) but they're mostly the ADAT ones. And the driver is in-tree.

[louthy]

> The reliable way to do this (I found) is check the kernel source tree first

Sure, in general that's good advice, but it becomes more complicated depending on the solution/situation...

I’d bought the RME card long before I was hoping to make it work with Linux. I'd been running Windows for a long time for work reasons, so I had my dev work and my music setup on the same computer (a 64 core Threadripper machine, with 128gb of RAM, and fast NVMe drives). A few months before, I'd sold my company, so for work at least I didn't need to be on Windows any more. Then I started getting random audio dropouts! Presumably because of all the crap Microsoft keep loading onto the OS with after every update.

The audio dropouts was the straw that broke the camel’s back. If a machine like that, with nothing else running on it other than my DAW, could start having audio dropouts, then you know something has gone horribly wrong with the OS.

That's why I wanted to get my existing RME card working on Linux. When I wasn’t able to use it, I then assumed I’d be able to get a network based protocol running (Dante/AES67). There was plenty of discussion about it online, it seemed viable, and it's a network, Linux can do networking! Also, I kinda like the idea of network based audio, I think it's likely to be more future proof.

So, I replaced one of my Ferrofish A32 Pro interfaces with a Ferrofish A32 Pro DANTE ($4300) [1]. It supports both Dante and AES67. I figure if I can’t get Dante running then the open protocol AES67 (with support in Linux-land) should work. That didn’t feel that risky. But no amount of finagling would make the interface appear via the virtual sound-card/router concept.

This had already taken weeks (maybe months) to not get anywhere, so I looked for a Class Compliant sound-card (or, one that definitely had Linux drivers) that could support the number of channels I needed (96 channels in and out), it also needed to support the AD/DA interfaces interfaces I already had (so connectivity via MADI or Dante/AES67), but there just wasn't anything. The only other sound-card out there was another RME interface.

So, that’s when I opted for a Class Compliant sound-card [2] for casual use on Linux ($324) and a new RME Digiface Dante sound-card ($1543) [3] that I could use with a newly purchased M4 Mac Mini ($3000). I also needed to replace another one of my Ferrofish A32 Pro interfaces with another Ferrofish A32 Pro Dante ($4300) to make the setup work.

I realise now that my earlier estimate of $6000 was wildly out, it cost $13467 to leave Windows and to get an alternative pro-audio setup working. There may well have been alternative approaches and I may well have missed a possible solution that could have either worked with the original RME card (which would cost nothing) or AES67 (that would still require me to replace 3 x Ferrofish A32 Pro interfaces, so would end up about the same cost), but I felt like I'd been pretty thorough.

I guess the reason I'm writing War & Peace here is that it's often not possible to know ahead of time whether any one setup might work. Drivers is one thing, but a pro-studio setup has more moving parts, and so if you don't know ahead of time whether any one setup will work, then it can be an expensive process to walk through the different options. And that's a problem that neither Windows nor Mac has. It's a real shame, because the stability of Linux should make it the best platform for pro-audio.

[1] https://www.ferrofish.com/a32pro-dante-converter-multimode/

[2] https://solidstatelogic.com/products/ssl-2-plus-mkii

[3] https://rme-audio.de/digiface-dante.html

[jancsika]

> it cost $13467 to leave Windows

I rather think it cost you $mac_mini to buy a mac mini, and $compulsion buying hardware for reasons I still do not understand.

Paul Davis has lurked here at least as long as you have, and it would have cost $0 just to ask if that card is currently supported in Linux.

I mean, for $13467 I bet I could buy a plane ticket to Shenzhen, hire a translator, and have them send an email to Collabora to quote a price to develop the firware/driver I can afford with the money I have left over.

[louthy]

> Paul Davis has lurked here at least as long as you have, and it would have cost $0 just to ask if that card is currently supported in Linux

I didn’t need to ask him, I already owned it, I just needed to dual boot Linux to find out, it cost me $0.

You don’t seem to understand that a soundcard needs connecting to everything else in a studio, so there’s no such thing as just changing one thing and it not having a knock on effect (unless you’re really lucky, which I wasn’t).

You also don’t seem to know that once a setup is right, it can last a decade or more, so getting the right combo of gear to minimise friction in a studio is worth it over time, even if it is expensive upfront.

If it makes you feel a little less morally superior, I sold the original soundcard and the two replaced AD/DAs for ~$7200.

And, you still miss the point of the story completely: the point was that it’s too risky for anyone considering building a pro setup on Linux. Especially compared to Windows and macOS where everything is plug and play.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t pockets of success in Linux-land, but that it can be costly in money and time to get it right, and it might never work for the setup you have.

It is risk.

> for reasons I still do not understand.

That’s obvious.

But the reasons are:

* I wanted to move away from Windows because it was unstable and pissing me off

* I already owned a high-end PCI RME card that connected to three Ferrofish A32 Pro converters

* If I could install Linux and have the RME card work then I wouldn’t need to change my studio setup

* There’s no official or stable driver

* So, a change to the setup was required

* To try and future proof the setup I looked to modern protocols like Dante and AES67 as they are taking over pro studios and are much more flexible — I also thought there was a reasonable chance it would work on Linux

* I couldn’t get it working on Linux

* Time is not infinite

* Therefore I bought a Mac for audio

* To avoid the expense of a Mac Pro I had to switch from a PCI based soundcard to a USB based soundcard (which I could plug in to the Mac Mini)

* I still use Linux on the original machine (for dev work), but with a class compliant soundcard for casual use. It’s relatively trouble free, other than half of my usb ports don’t work, but you know, meh

* I haven’t needed to use Windows since. So I consider it a win.

[mystifyingpoi]

Linux audio is definitely hit and miss. Even with the most standard soundcard in existence (Scarlett) I still had problems with it. After fiddling a bit it works okay-ish, but there were definitely moments of "screw it, I'm buying a Mac".

[louthy]

This works well for me on Linux Mint:

https://solidstatelogic.com/products/ssl-2-plus-mkii

It has pro quality converters and is plug-n-play.

[bigyabai]

The Scarlett should be USB class-compliant. I've got a Motu 2i2o DAC that I've been using on Linux for 3 years now, and before that used a Behringer U-Phoria without issues.

[mystifyingpoi]

It is class-compliant - but to this day, I've never figured out, how to use the multitrack out with Pulse. The widget shows all the outputs and testing individual outs works, but Reaper duplicates the sends, so the outputs overlap. Works with JACK though, but JACK is just strange. Also no control software (aside from one open-source thingy that looks awful), so any change requires reboot to Windows or VM passthrough.

[curtisblaine]

The DAW is just a small part of it. You need all the plugins to work too :(

[bigyabai]

Unless you bought Audio Units (let's be honest, you knew you were fucked), VSTs have multiple options for running on Linux:

https://airwave.fxarena.net/

https://github.com/robbert-vdh/yabridge

[louthy]

Who uses plugins? ;)

The reason I have a need for so much IO is that nearly all of my processing goes through external hardware (EQs, compressors, delays, reverbs, filters, phasers, chorus, summing mixer, multi-FX units like Eventide H3000 & H8000) and I have a wall of modular gear + about 20 synths and drum machines.

[Root_Denied]

CAD software options are severely lacking as well. There's an unofficial snap package for Fusion360 but it's hit or miss depending on the distro, the day of the week, the weather, and whether Oracle's stock price is a prime number.

[constantcrying]

Onshape (free for non-commercial) and Solidworks (50Euros a year non-commerical) both are Browser based.

[LiamPowell]

Their horrible xDesign thing is browser based. Regular Solidworks is still a Windows application. Onshape is a very good alternative to Fusion assuming it has the features you need.

[wltr]

Which are on macOS

[bitexploder]

You have to opt in to Recall. You must have a “Copilot+ PC” which has an “NPU”. The snapshots are stored and processed locally.

[falcor84]

> The snapshots are stored and processed locally.

Even if that's the design, it's a massive new attack surface for malware to try to exfiltrate.

[roetlich]

Then don't turn it on?

[falcor84]

Oh, I won't, but MS has the unfortunate recurring habit of turning features on against users' will, at best giving the option to "Remind me in 3 days".

[wlesieutre]

Or the old "oops we installed an upgrade and accidentally flipped your setting by on purpose not having QA"

I don't know how many times I've had to tell Windows that I don't want Edge to be my default browser and OneDrive should not open at login.

[hbn]

My "favorite" tactless Windows update story in recent memory was when an update pinned a Copilot link to my taskbar. I unpinned it, then a few weeks later another update added the Copilot link back to my taskbar, but not as a pinned app. Rather it replaced the god damn "show desktop" button in the bottom right of the screen! They replaced an always on-screen OS navigation button that's been there since Windows 7 with an ad!!

I hope to god that Valve takes the opportunity they have with Steam OS to give us a potential real alternative to Windows that focuses on gaming support. Cause that's literally the only reason I'm forced to continue using this Microsoft adware slop of an OS.

[jug]

Better yet, how about not making visual keylogger code part of the OS to begin with.

I’d be pretty nervous about running Windows with this even able to be enabled.

No way the benefit:risk ratio makes the slightest sense in this case.

[Eggpants]

This “feature” was made for corporate owned window machines, who will force it enabled via policies.

[falcor84]

Exactly, and I think that the real goal is for enterprises (and MS itself) to collect training data for Computer Use AI agents.

[contextfree]

There is currently no policy setting to do this. The available policy settings are "disable Recall and do not allow users to enable it" (which is the default) and "allow users to enable Recall, but leave it disabled by default".

[johncessna]

Don't forget that Recall was initially on by default. It wasn't until users were like, WTF, did they make it off by default.

That will last for as long as it takes for the value of privacy and ownership erodes further and then it'll get switched back to on by default.

[0x000xca0xfe]

Even if processing and storage is local, it is just too damn easy to abuse the feature from remote.

Imagine how useful it would be for software vendors (Microsoft included): "We have implemented new feature X, how are our users interacting with it? Let's ask their Recall AI about it".

This could essentially become telemetry on steroids.

In the start telemetry was seen as outrageously user-hostile spying, too. Look where we are now. We are all frogs, at least Microsoft is banking on it.

[sabellito]

Opt in for now. Locally for now.

[xyzal]

Locally for how long? You know, all that data how you interact with a PC are just too tempting ...

[axpvms]

I have one of those PCs, but I have Linux running on it. Can I use the NPU for anything useful? It seems not at the moment (am using AMD)

[999900000999]

Linux is great if you're hardware is supported.

I've never been able to get Linux working right on one of my laptops, on another only rolling releases work.

These rolling releases like to break every 3 to 6 months.

Windows is much more stable on both laptops.

With my mini PC eGPU combo Linux just won't recognize the eGpu at all.

[subjectsigma]

Never post anything like this on HN, you will get a torrent of people A) trying to help, but not being very helpful B) telling you that you’re dumb C) telling you that you’re holding it wrong and that you need different software/hardware/preferences/etc.

I have had tons of grief with NVIDIA cards that work stellar on Windows and the answer I always get talking to Linux folks is “LOL NVIDIA? You’re an idiot for buying NVIDIA.”

My friends who daily drive Linux have accepted that I’m particularly cursed. Either that or they privately think I’m a moron. Regardless none of them seem to be able to explain my issues or help.

[999900000999]

I welcome a good conversation.

Linux still isn't really ready for normal people who have other things to do.

Arguably if it's within your budget and you just want your computer to work, buy a Mac.

I make music and I don't want to fiddle with external drives so I'm basically stuck on Windows.

My biggest issue with Macs is not being able to replace the SSD. Eventually all SSDs must fail. Might not be in 2 years, might be in 6 or 7, but at that point the entire laptop is useless.

[AlotOfReading]

"It just works" was always a marketing slogan for Apple, not an actual reality. It's certainly not appropriate for an OS where perfectly standard mice have frustrating, decades-old limitations like scroll direction being tied to the touchpad settings and forward/backyard buttons not working.

[999900000999]

If you stay in the Apple Box of supported use cases it's fine.

The customer support story is also much better. Instead of dealing with IRC channels and Reddit post trying to figure out why the latest kernel ruined everything, you go to the Apple Store.

I literally run Tumbleweed on my second laptop, I like Linux.

It's just not for people who don't want to invest time into understanding how computers work.

[AlotOfReading]

I wouldn't consider products you can buy on apple.com like this corsair M75 outside their supported use cases: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HRYT2ZM/A/corsair-m75-wir...

This whole thread is about how Linux is difficult because you need to understand what hardware is actually supported and you're arguing that MacOS is different because you still need to understand what hardware is supported, but the apple store will sell you something else with a smile.

I'm not even denying that MacOS is a perfectly acceptable OS, I just don't understand your argument.

[eYrKEC2]

This was true for me until ~2014. I haven't had substantial hardware compatibility issues on Ubuntu since then. Sure, a few google searches for the right nvidia driver, but otherwise I've found Ubuntu to just work for many years.

[int_19h]

It's a lottery that largely depends on what exact hardware you have.

I have one machine that I can't even install Linux on because no Linux installer or live CD will even boot on it. No idea why, and I don't want to spend a lot of time and effort figuring that out given that it's my dedicated gaming box, a "PC console" basically.

OTOH I have a laptop that I specifically purchased to run Linux on it. Which it does, and all devices work just fine. The only catch is that battery life when browsing is about 20-30% less, and, as far as I can tell, this is entirely due to Linux browsers disabling video hardware acceleration by default on most configs. If I enable it, things get much better for the battery, but at the cost of an occasional browser crash.

[dartharva]

I might have one of the very rare cases where my laptop works much better with Linux than with Windows (both 10 and 11).

Both Wifi and Bluetooth doesn't work on a fresh Windows install, I have to physically connect a USB DVD player to install the drivers from the DVD that came with the package (in 2024! btw). On Linux everything just works out-of-the-box. Okay maybe not everything, I did have to patch my kernel for bluetooth drivers, but other than that it's a LOT smoother in every way than on Windows.

[juujian]

Obligatory "my experience diverges." Which manufacturers were those? New flagship devices or more established hardware?

[999900000999]

https://www.asus.com/laptops/for-home/vivobook/asus-vivobook...

Maybe it's been fixed, but I brought this on release last year, it never worked right with Linux.

Hours upon hours of trying to fix it for naught.

I actually prefer Linux as a daily driver, I have the Ultra Core V2 version of the same laptop and rolling releases are generally fine for 3 to 6 months. At which point I just reinstall , while leaving Windows intact.

I guess if you want to buy a slightly older laptop or at least one with a slightly older CPU things are fine.

Refurbished Thinkpads excel particularly well here.

[aitchnyu]

5k screens over DP are two screens in a trenchcoat. I saw this abstraction broken with menubar (only on half the screen), blue light filter (have to program both harlves), screen placement (have to drag both halves into place). FreeDesktop Gitlab has been tracking this since 2017 but IME only 2023 Ubuntu got it perfect, IIRC KDE got it perfect later.