[scythmic_waves]

Thanks for breaking that down.

As someone doing weightlifting, this is the primary reason I don't bother with vegetarian meats. They actually taste pretty good IMO, but they don't offer nutritional benefits commensurate with animal meat.

It's a shame, really. I'd gladly incorporate them if I could get a similar protein : calorie ratio.

[9dev]

There’s very successful vegan lifters and athletes, though. It’s absolutely possible to thrive without meat and dairy products.

[unlikelytomato]

if you can digest it, maybe. Thrive is somewhat open to debate. Some can handle it naturally. There is a huge amount of survivor bias in self reported vegans. They never get interviews with everyone who tried it and dropped it to uncover why.

[9dev]

Whether people dropped being vegan doesn’t have anything to do with the absolutely validated fact that a vegan diet can sustain muscle growth. Professional athletes might want to put some additional work in calculating nutrient intake, but that’s the same for any kind of diet.

[unlikelytomato]

The research on optimal protein for athletes is pretty well established. I weigh all of my food and track every macro. If I ate the recommended amount of protein from plant sources, I would be grossly overweight from the additional carb and fat calories. I try plants based every year or so. It just doesn't work for my body. Not to mention the dramatic IBS-like symptoms I get even after forcing it for weeks on end to "adapt" to plant only. I switch back to my old diet and all my issues disappear in about 72 hours. After 15 attempts, I will probably try again, but it's not looking good. Maybe someday when I stop all athletic endeavors it will work out for me

[seec]

I came to the same conclusion. I always wonder if they are completely delusional and ignore every issue to favor their bias or just don't have the problems that we get.

From spending quite a lot of time with those people, my opinion is that they generally are pretty dishonest and will deny the truth to fit their ideology.

[xk_id]

Just drink protein shakes? There are soy protein ones that are completely inoffensive and pea protein which isn’t tasty but much cheaper. Do professional athletes actually eat only meat to meet their protein requirements? Because even if you’re not a vegan I imagine that amount of meat every day gets pretty gross.

[aziaziazi]

Did you try Tempeh? 20gr of protein / 150cal. It looks like a steak.

It's god's food: high prots, fibers, iron, vitamins, unsaturated fats. Low carbs and sodium. Super digestive.

Super versatile: from burgers to bolognese to barbecue to everything, even sweety for the courageous. My easy goto is a dip of whatever open sauce I already have and 1 min micro wave heating. A bit more time ? Fried on the pan with soy sauce, olive oil and some herbs afterwards.

[anon84873628]

The parent said "vegetarian meats" so I hope we can assume that's not meant to include tempeh and tofu (but rather things like TVP or mycoprotein products).

And while we're on the subject, Mike Israetel from Renaissance Periodization gives soy protein high marks for body builders. Good macros, good price, and highest amino acid profile score after milk/meat/eggs. Having tofu on hand is definitely helpful during a bulk.

[unlikelytomato]

if only soy and beans didn't rip my digestion to shreds.

[aziaziazi]

Tempeh is easier to digest: the soy (fibers and amino acids) is pre-eaten by the mold.

I can drink milk but feel the same as you do with beans. When it’s fermented cheese I’m totally fine.

Can you eat falafels, tofu or slip peas? If so the hull may be the cause. Also beans trigger gaz on many people because they don’t eat much insoluble fibers, but after a while of regular consumption it comes back to normal. Don’t hurt yourself through, take care.

[unlikelytomato]

I can eat maybe one serving every few days regardless of the source. I can eat a lot of various fruits without issue(high fiber too). tofu is mostly ok. I have tried about once a year for 15-20 years.

I can eat a block of cheese a day and feel great. same with extremely lean chicken. When I try plants only without the problem foods, my energy and recover drops. I get depressed and I have huge protein cravings. If I try to squash that hunger with fats or carbs, I get fat. Just never been able to find a sustainable solution for my body

[aziaziazi]

Fruits mostly contains soluble fibers, only their peel contains a bit of the insoluble one. For your next try consider instant mashed lentils/slip peas (flakes) or lots of mushrooms if you're rich enough. Adding a fair portion of hemp or nutritional yeast also increase the protein ratio. And tempeh is really a game changer. I wish the best for you.

[klipt]

I know tempeh is easily available in Indonesia, but how do you get it in bulk in the US?

All I see are tiny overpriced plastic packets.

[aziaziazi]

Overlaps try to find a local producteur/enthousiast and buy it from him? Or make it yourself, it’s super cheap, but you need some time to learn and fin the right setup. Some people use an insulated chief master to produce reliable big batches at home. You can freeze the surplus.

https://www.tempeh.info/

[kelipso]

Plus whatever chemicals (yes, I will keep using this word, thank you) they put in it for texture, flavor, preservation, etc.

[cj]

I dunno. I track macros religiously with daily protein/fat/carb targets for weight lifting.

I don't care much about the macros of each individual meal (or any individual ingredient). When dinner comes around, I'm cooking whatever meal will let me hit my targets for the day. If I already got most my protein in, I'll happily eat something with "bad" protein/calorie ratio.

Granted, 99% of people don't track food intake, so yea, probably makes sense to optimize food nutrition for the average person eating an average meal looking for an average balance of macros on a per-meal basis.

I guess my point is there's a time and place for virtually all foods (including junk food... bodybuilders regularly snack on things like sour patch kids during workouts).

Critiquing beyond burgers for their macro breakdown doesn't make sense to me. But criticisms around the level of processing is 100% valid IMO. The last package I opened up quite literally smelled like dog food.

Edit: Also FWIW, I'm a vegetarian (although eat meat maybe once every 1-2 weeks, sometimes beef). Despite that, I'm easily able to get 200+ grams of protein a day. If I took protein powder out of my diet completely, I'd still be able to hit 150g/day at least without really trying.

[Saline9515]

Out of curiosity, how do you get 150g/day of full proteins?

For instance, eating lentils, which is one of the most proteinated vegetable, bring 18g of proteins per 100g, along with 40g of carbs. You also have to eat a comparable amount of cereal to get a full protein chain.

Given that amount of proteins you mention, this requires eating a very large volume of food (cereals and graminacae swell with water during cooking).

I always wondered how vegetarians could reach a highly proteinic diet as a result!

[zilian]

Tofu, 100% peanut butter with no added oil or additive, skyr yogurt (10g of proteins for 100g for around 50kcal !), there are a lot of options What's hard is not protein intake but to moderate carbs intake in my opinion

[cj]

I’ve eaten 124g of protein so far today, no meat no protein powder.

I wish I could tell you one food, but it’s not primarily from 1 source.

Egg whites, chickpea salad, Greek yogurt - lots of stuff has protein in it.

On the flip side, I’ve never understood how meat eaters can hit their protein goals without frequently exceeding 50-100g fat per day.

[Saline9515]

Ok, so mainly animal products, but not meat. Regarding fat, lean meat cuts are easy to come by.

[seec]

For vegetarians it's much easier, they just go for animal derived products (eggs and milk based), so it's a bit bullshit if you ask me.

For vegans it's extremely hard, a lot of them that I know are proper skinny fat. Rarely overweight (or just a little bit) but with a terrible body composition.

[scythmic_waves]

> Critiquing beyond burgers for their macro breakdown doesn't make sense to me.

They're selling a meat replacement. Replacing the meat in my diet with their product does not work for my goals without additional planning to compensate. Therefore it's not a good replacement for me. A criticism need not apply in all cases to be valid.

> I'd still be able to hit 150g/day at least without really trying.

What are your calorie goals? If you're in a surplus, maybe. But I'm currently in a deficit with 150g protein / 1600 calorie. I do not find that I can hit this goal "without really trying", _especially_ without protein powder.

And to clarify, it's 100% possible to hit my goals eating vegetarian/vegan. But with meat in my diet it's much easier because their high protein content gives me more flexibility with the rest of the diet. If I wanted to do it vegetarian, I wouldn't use beyond meat because it'd be even harder than other options.

[cj]

Current calorie goal is ~3000 - I agree, that amount of calories makes it much easier.

Over winter/sprint I was targeting 1900-2100 (180g P). It would have been near impossible to do it without protein shakes.

[proee]

You are not a vegetarian

[cj]

If you wear vegetarianism on your sleeve for philosophical reasons, yea that’s not me.

I simply prefer not eating a lot of meat.

Next time I’ll say majority-vegetarian minority-carnivore?

[vlod]

I hate the term, but I've heard 'flexitarian' used to describe this.