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by Protostome 461 days ago
First off, to claim that "Palestinian militants have tried for decades to avoid civilian harm" is beyond absurd. Explain the deliberate massacres like the one at the music festival on October 7th—hundreds of unarmed civilians gunned down without mercy, no "selectiveness" involved whatsoever. Are we supposed to believe that’s "avoiding civilian harm"? That’s an absolute joke. Also, those tens of thousands of rockets fired for over two decades are not exactly precision guided missles. They are very much aware that those rockets can fall anywhere - schools, homes and streets.

Second, saying there’s "no Jewish claim" to the land is straight-up ignorance. There is actually "Jewish claim", you just are not familiar with it. Jews have prayed in the direction of Jerusalem for thousands of years, many prayrs have a part about the return to Israeli homeland (here is one example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Shana_Haba%27ah). It’s part of the jewish daily practice, woven into the very fabric of jewish identity. Meanwhile, Muslims face Mecca—not Jerusalem. Deny it all you want, but the Jewish connection to this place is ancient, tangible, and undeniable.

And let’s talk about your so-called "colonial outlook." Do you even realize Palestinians self-identify as Arabs? the Middle East is historically tribal and ethnic in its identification. This isn’t some "Western" lens; it’s how people in the region actually see themselves. Ironically, you’re the one imposing a worldview that simplifies everyone into a one-size-fits-all label, acting like it’s morally superior to note these distinctions.

Finally, about this "occupation" nonsense: the land in question was under British control—not owned by any Palestinian state—before Israel’s establishment. There was a U.N. partition plan, one side accepted it, the other side went to war and lost. That’s not some mythical, twisted story—it’s documented history. If you start a war and lose, don’t be shocked that you don’t get to dictate the terms afterward.

Honestly, the sheer amount of mental gymnastics required to frame Israel as pure evil while ignoring the endless terror attacks and outright massacres by Palestinian militant groups is staggering. You’re the one excusing atrocities by claiming they’re a "right" under occupation. It’s as if civilian lives only matter when you they are on your side of the political divide

1 comments

Apparently you haven't watched any footage from those events. If you had, you'd have noticed that the unorganised second wave consisted of rather confused people mulling around, not knowing what to do, and that mostly they tried to take hostages and prisoners. There is evidence of some cruelty, like a grenade thrown into a shelter, but "hundreds of unarmed civilians gunned down without mercy" just doesn't hold water.

In total 364 corpses were found, including cops and irregular combatants and so on. It's unknown how many of those were Hellfire:d, likely a rather large portion judging from the photos of the aftermath where you can see pretty much every car at the location having been blown up by helicopter.

At the very least it was nothing like the deep cruelty and genocidal mania of the occupation forces. They use snipers to systematically target small children, as you should know.

Palestinians commonly ask 'where are the arabs?' when they're crying and desperate in the aftermath of some israeli atrocity. It is because there is very little community among the arab populations in the Middle East that has allowed for Iran to help supply and train armed resistance groups in Palestine. Palestinians know this better than you or I do.

Last summer the ICJ published their considerations regarding the occupation and deemed it illegal and demanded that it ends immediately. A year ago they found it plausible that Israel is committing genocide and ordered the state to stop with possibly genocidal actions. Consistently and regularly israeli pundits and politicians are confessing to genocide on national television, the Internet and so on. Here's the defense minister in a recent speech:

"Residents of Gaza, this is your final warning. The first Sinwar destroyed Gaza, and the second Sinwar will bring upon it total ruin. The Israeli Air Force's attack against Hamas terrorists was only the first step. What follows will be far harsher, and you will bear the full cost.

Evacuation of the population from combat zones will soon resume. If all Israeli hostages are not released and Hamas is not kicked out of Gaza, Israel will act with force you have not known before.

Take the advice of the U.S. President: return the hostages and kick out Hamas, and new options will open up for you—including relocation to other parts of the world for those who choose. The alternative is destruction and total devastation."

This isn't aimed solely at the palestinians, Israel is doing the same in Lebanon, where they destroy crops and forests with illegal weapons like phosphor bombs, and they systematically destroy homes, historical monuments and infrastructure. They also occupy lebanese territory, and they occupy Syrian territory. Currently they are also in breach of the peace agreement with Egypt. It is a criminal, expansionist state. This is surely evil. If it's pure evil? I don't know, don't care, that difference doesn't mean anything to me.

There are so many accounts of Hamas militants executing innocent people from that event. Here is one: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67105618

Here is two: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/toi-original/watc...

Should I go on? There are so many... I think it holds water pretty well, doesn't it?

That's one video with material from the Nova festival, and no, as you can see, the palestinian ran after them for quite some distance rather than just kill them. It is unclear whether he tried to take hostages or not.

I've also explained that this event was unorganised and spontaneous, it wasn't an organised resistance activity such as I meant above.

To me this material prompts the wish for justice, with due process and so on, but you apparently believe it excuses occupation and genocide. I don't think we'll reach common ground here, in part because you also seem to think it should be fine to go on a molly roll next to a concentration camp and not risk harm.

No use arguing with such a hateful person, but other people can easily see what Gaza was before they launched their genocide against Jews on October 7: https://x.com/imshin https://t.me/ImshinJ

Check how does "concentration camp" look before Hamas started a war at expense of the peaceful population on both sides. There are many "Before October 7" videos on there, all with timestamps and sources from clips that Gazans publish themselves. Luxury villas, luxury cars, cute restaurants and good life all around. Also very sick children were routinly treated in Israeli hospitals for free. The main obstacle for poor Gazans was Hamas and their governing. Hamas also managed to smuggle enough concrete to build a tunnel system bigger than NY subway, instead of pumping these resources into Gazan society.

Genocide denial and denial of state atrocities are illegal in some jurisdictions. Are you sure this is a risk you're willing to take?

At October 7th the Gaza strip was under occupation, with the population on the verge of starvation. That is not peaceful. It was also the deadliest year in a long time for palestinians in the occupied West Bank. An openly genocidal, kahanist-likudnik government had taken power in Israel.

Whatever "luxuries" got into the Gaza strip came through the smuggling network. And either way, armed resistance to occupation is a right. I'd argue it should be under apartheid as well.

again, there is documented video footage of good life, better than in most arab countries in the region. the fact you refuse to believe reality goes well with everything that you spew out.

and defense is a real right, unlike terrorism, if you pick violence, the other side will defend itself - so you are just glorifying more death, and are blind to your bloodlust, which is disgusting.

hey, you, no need to threaten me, south africa doesnt stand a chance and your blood libel will soon bust when this ridiculous allegation will be put to a side. you are a hate mongerer and a liar, i am disgusted by you.
Calling the oct 7 terrorist attacks a genocide against the Jews it at best hyperbolic and at worst an apologia for an actual genocide. Your second paragraph makes me fear you are doing the latter.

I don’t think you realize just how hateful your post actually is. You are trying to paint a picture of victims of genocide that somehow deserved the horrors done against them, or at best denies the very real horrors another state is inflicting upon them.

This kind of speech has no place on a tech forum.

lies and hate inciting against jews do, from your perspective I guess?

let me ask this - are you from the region? Have you been to middle east?

Yep ... I gave up too. No use in debating someone on the actual facts.