[runarberg]

Calling the oct 7 terrorist attacks a genocide against the Jews it at best hyperbolic and at worst an apologia for an actual genocide. Your second paragraph makes me fear you are doing the latter.

I don’t think you realize just how hateful your post actually is. You are trying to paint a picture of victims of genocide that somehow deserved the horrors done against them, or at best denies the very real horrors another state is inflicting upon them.

This kind of speech has no place on a tech forum.

[gryzzly]

lies and hate inciting against jews do, from your perspective I guess?

let me ask this - are you from the region? Have you been to middle east?

[runarberg]

What does that matter?

After months and years of the Khmer Rouge doing the Cambodian Genocide, and after most international experts and commentators (except Noam Chomsky for some reason) concluded that the Cambodian genocide was in fact a genocide. Non-south-east Asians were still allowed to hold opinion on it. And further more, if somebody (like Noam Chomsky) would be spewing apologia for the Cambodian genocide, more people than just South-east Asians were allowed to call it out as such.

Edit: Attaching the relevant Wikipedia article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial

[gryzzly]

I just think you don’t know what you are talking about, not that you aren’t entitled to hold an opinion. You are spewing lies and hate, and the reason is your ignorance. None of the Palestinians who seek peace will agree with anything you typed out here. They understand really well that there are two foul players – Hamas and Religious Settlers (and Bibi who plays to their tune) and they seek ways to establish bridges with Israelis (just like Israelis do with Palestinians). But you have no idea about any of that, because you read Wikipedia, and BBC and random click-baiting press.

[runarberg]

I don’t know what I have said constitutes either a lie or hate. I’m not making generalizing statements about racial groups, nor painting a picture about victims of violence which seeks to minimize or justify said violence. What I am doing is interpreting said violence in a less hateful way as you have, and pointing out how you interpretation is harmful.

Now I live around Palestinians, I have spoken with Palestinian refugees, both in Iceland and the USA. I have attended lectures from Palestinians, I follow Palestinians on social media (both the diaspora, from Gaza, West-Bank, and East Jerusalem). And my interaction with them paints a very different picture than you. The Palestinians I have spoken to don care about Hamas, they may even support Hamas, their primary concern is the Israeli occupation, and sometimes the Israeli settler-colonial national psyche (i.e. Zionism). They are way more pissed at the Israeli government, the behavior it has normalized, the support it gets from Israeli citizens, and the complicity from both Western countries, but especially the inactivity of other Arab countries. They may bring up religious settlers, but that would just be one example of a much larger list of the systemic oppression they experience. They may bring up Hamas, but that is getting into the nitty grit of Palestine politics, they are actually more likely to criticize Palestinian Authority than Hamas.

Now my experience in interacting with Palestinians is probably very skewed to the left. I meet people in protests, on social media I follow gay’s rights activists, etc. So no doubt there are more conservative Palestinians who’s primary concern is Hamas and religious settlers, however I don’t think that makes my view ignorant nor hateful, just a little biased. However if I were to reduce the Palestinian opinion to only include the more simplistic and conservative one, that would not only make my option ignorant, but also perhaps a little racist.

[gryzzly]

thanks for the explaining where you come from.

it is indeed sad to hear that so few of the palestinians you have talked to are interested in peace and introspection. hamas is objectively the main reason for gazans’ misery and yet you didn’t meet the brave people who speak against them. anyway, it is also shunned in that community (especially expats who go to pro-palestinian demonstrations) to doubt the narrative of the pro-violence factions.

I can recommend you to seek such voices if you really want to know more and to actually contribute anything rational towards peaceful life in the region.

[runarberg]

> hamas is objectively the main reason for gazans’ misery and yet you didn’t meet the brave people who speak against them

This is the kind of speech I was talking about. You are shifting the blame of the Gaza genocide, and the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories away from the perpetrators of said genocide and occupation and onto the people who are fighting said occupation.

This is exactly the kind of speech which was very common in 19th and 20th century Europe and was used to justify their numerous genocide against indigenous peoples, who fell victims to European colonial conquest and oppression.