How do you choose where to be?

[liminal-dev]

Shooting my shot with the HN crowd, as I appreciate the perspectives I can find here.

Started working tech/start-ups at 23 years old. After 3 years felt it was sucking away my youth, and at 26 said “screw it” and moved to a very rural town to join a music school.

I found music to be a fulfilling adventure this past year, but now ahead of the second year I’m feeling very isolated from “my people” (hackers, techies) in the city, and the worlds I came from (software engineering.)

Feeling very lost. On one hand I don’t want to move out and feel like I’ve made a mistake ‘giving up’ second year of music school, on the other I’m already feeling this about exciting tech projects and jobs I’m refusing, and about being close to friends & family in the city.

How do you choose where to be?

[drakonka]

Just a few weeks ago I had the sudden urge to blow up my life a little.

I started by eating a chicken sandwich for the first time in 15-ish years. It was unsatisfying, and it was not enough.

Then I decided to move out of the suburbs of a major city to a neighboring city that is much smaller, but much cozier and still within commuting distance. I started looking for rentals.

One day the following week I decided to just buy a place in this neighboring city.

Two weeks later, I bought one.

It all went very quickly, and usually my decisions are much more based on logic than a whim. I did think it through after acknowledging the whim - the move logistically, financially, and socially makes sense. But first and foremost, what I was pulled by was just a "vibe". A feeling that I had to just be somewhere different. I've done this once before, and back then it turned out to be a great decision.

So to answer "How do you choose where to be?" - For me, sometimes (rarely) I just feel a strong pull to some thing or some place. I cannot explain it, but I can research and justify it after the fact. Unless I can tell that it is clearly a stupid decision, I try to follow that urge, because it is so rare.

[kylecazar]

Escalated from a chicken sandwich to buying real estate pretty quickly! Good for you.

[genezeta]

Wherever you go, there you are.

Or in other words, sometimes the problem is thinking that you need to move while what you might be needing is to change.

Then again, you are 27. You are still able to move wherever you want without too much effort. So, if you think you need to move, do so. But going back to the paragraph above, don't just move. Do think about what it is that you're looking for, what you expect to achieve with the move. And then consider that moving may be a part of the solution but that you may need other parts to reach your goals.

[dustyventure]

> Wherever you go, there you are.

More accurately: Wherever you go, a you will be.

We are not really that fixed and while resident foreigners may sometimes seem like they are all stereotypes, they are actually all being shaped toward being quite a bit different from typical in the environment they left.

[nicbou]

Travel. I have seen many cities by now, and more and more it becomes obvious to me that I will grow old where I am, and that a city of 3 million is the sweet spot for me. Too small and I feel like you do. Too big and I feel too small.

I ended up where I am because of an internship abroad I took almost on a whim 9 years ago.

You are still young. The cost of trying different things is still low. That window of opportunity never really closes, but it’s hard to make big changes once you are tied down by obligations.

If you want out, this is the time.

[hiAndrewQuinn]

Well, I moved to Finland 6 months after graduating college to be with my fiancee, now-wife, and that worked out great for me. So I'm inclined to say, first and foremost, move to wherever you find who you love.

If you don't yet have a person like that in your life, then I'd recommend move to wherever puts you in the best position to find them. If you already do, then I would say move to wherever your ambition takes you, and try not to let sunk cost fallacy bite you too hard.

[7373737373]

This is something I often wonder when I see historical video footage - why do the people there were where they were? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ1OgQL9_Cw

In retrospect they may have missed out on many things, if they were in another place at that time, life might have turned out much differently for them, for the better or worse. But life is oftentimes happenstance or habit, instead of willed intentional (inter)action.

Habitual or even changes of perspective can be rare, and choosing to explore without any direction can be very difficult.

[tolerance]

Maybe “your people” are not the ones who have the same sort of profession as you do and your “world” is not the industry that you’re a part of.

Think about. It probably isn’t. I mean, I hope after some thought you can reason that it isn’t.

[willidiots]

Grew up rural, but spent a lot of my formative years on BBSes and this budding "Internet" thing.

Moved to SF, spent 20 years there, then moved back to the countryside because I was going to climb mountains instead of tech and breathe the fresh country air. Hiking and climbing was a great adventure but 5 years later I see that it wasn't the "solution" I was expecting it to be.

Sometimes I feel the way you're feeling; I miss the tech scene, the vibrance of the city. Other times, I feel great about the move. I know more people in this tiny town than I ever knew in the bay, and I feel more invested in the community's future. I've grown a lot through this change, and learned much that I'd never have learned in the bay.

I do wish we'd moved closer to my parents. Caring for them as they age is difficult from afar.

The grass is always greener, somewhat, and IMO the best "answer" is to make what you can from wherever you are. Don't be in a rush to force life's progress.

[MattPalmer1086]

I had a very similar experience. Started off very technical and then went to do a music degree.

It was extremely fulfilling to get more into music (been playing instruments since I was a kid). Once I graduated, I oscillated between trying to make a living with music and computers. Even did some work using both!

In the end I realised what I really liked was the creative process, not so much whether it was in music or computing. There were more jobs and better pay for technical roles, so I focused on that career wise, but I still play and enjoy music.

You are in a good place right now, in that you are exploring what you want to do with your time, and you are still young without many responsibilities (I assume). This is not wasted effort, even if you "jump ship" from one to the other.

I can't say what is right for you, often the only way to know is to try. Whatever you decide at this point, your decisions are not irreversible, and trying different things will enrich your life.

[phil21]

Keep trying new things. You are young and still figuring life out. Too many people settle and stop following their dreams and whims. Chasing opportunities is likely what you should be doing at the moment.

This doesn't mean be irresponsible, but it does mean listening to your "gut feeling" and knowing when it's time to move on.

I regret very little I have actively done in life, even the things that at the time seemed to turn out so poorly I thought I may not ever recover from. I do regret, sometimes very deeply, the things I did not do but knew I should have.

There is of course a balance in life, but you have time to find it. So long as you are not hurting others or putting yourself in harms way I would always err on the side of "do something new" - but that does mean finish the things you commit to. Both for yourself and others.

[bruce511]

>> After 3 years felt it was sucking away my youth

Do you have some goals that you felt needed to be accomplished "in your youth?" In what way do you see your "not youth" as being different to your youth?

It's interesting (to me) that you felt the first change based on "achievement" (must achieve x before age y) but this change is brought on by "relationshop" - your interaction with others.

Perhaps this reflects a general maturing you are experiencing? A more concrete idea of what is important to you and the ability to better articulate your exact goals?

Typically in "ones youth" you are "finding your place", better understanding yourself and what you want out of life. It sounds like you are doing that well. Trying different things. Seeing what fits.

From there you can get a clearer picture of what you want your life to look like.

Good luck!

[liminal-dev]

I used to have goals. I’m a locally-known videogame developer. Throughout my childhood and into my 20s I thought videogames would be my ‘main thing’, but at around 25 I realized I’ve fallen out of love with the gamedev process (and no longer play games as well). This created an identity crisis, and since then I haven’t found a definite path that combines both money and passion.

Music is me trying new things. I love it, but often feel I’m not “playing my cards right” since being in school has nothing to do with software development, making money, or establishing deep, fulfilling relationships in my life (I live far away from the city I grew up in.)

All in all, it feels a lot like blind faith. It feels bad, since my peers seem to have their life paths ‘figured out’ to some extent.

[cookiengineer]

There is huge potential in software for the education sector. Maybe you can spark your love for programming again by finding an idea that combines your love for music, gamedev, and teaching/education?

[tommiegannert]

Successive approximation. The more I move, the better I know what my family likes. Each new move feels slightly less radical than the previous. Both because you're becoming used to the feeling of being an outsider, and because you're honing in on something you like.

That said, also consider the psychological aspect. Perhaps you have a personality that never feels at home, always looking for greener pastures somewhere else. I do. Not sure what to do about it, but it could be that moving won't help, because it's the dream of change that drives you, not an actual dislike for where you are now.

[reducesuffering]

I'm building a project specifically to answer this question with better data and more fully utilizing our technological resources.

It's early, but you can currently narrow things down across US counties by filtering across 60+ different metrics: https://www.exoroad.com/

With more time, I think we can source all the extras someone is looking for ("want hackers, techie, software people") and do a more detailed comparison by sourcing the top matches. Basically use the huge amount of data we have and give someone an easy way to explore it.

[throwawayian]

This is what your 20s are like. You’re someone who actually commits to those whims.

Good.

Keep doing that, don’t settle. You’ll find what you’re looking for.

[oumua_don17]

If you have liked music and now you realise after staying away for a while that you miss software engineering may be a signal that you should find something that is at the intersection of both domains. Usually there is also longevity in such kind of work. YMMV, good luck!!!

[dave333]

Go where the goldrush is. Right now this is in tech - AI - not music so much.

A life in tech with music as a hobby is much easier to do than the reverse.

PS combine the two like Brian Eno.

[liminal-dev]

This is what my head tells me to do - the heart disagrees.

[dave333]

Lots of musicians and composers are going to need help with applying AI to their music so plenty of scope for hobby tech projects if you insist on going with your heart. This will also give you the tech skills should you decide to pivot back.

[brudgers]

feel like I’ve made a mistake ‘giving up’ second year of music school

Leaving music school doesn't mean you cease learning music. You have a lifetime to learn more about music. That's good because that's what it takes to scratch the surface.

Anyway, it sounds like that music school might not have been the right music school for you because it didn't make you feel like you wanted to stay. That is probably some mix of its culture, curriculum, and location with your ambitions. You can take music lessons anywhere.

Anyway, I don't think where I am is an independent choice. There are external factors: friends, family, work, etc. Recognizing the complexity of the world a reward for growing older. Good luck.

[liminal-dev]

Very on-point. I’ve made some friends and amazing memories there, but overall the experience was lukewarm, and sometimes bad, in terms of everything you listed (curriculum, culture, location.)

My dilemma is mind vs heart - the mind knows I can learn anywhere and it’s time to move on, and the heart doesn’t want to ‘miss out’ on the memories I could make there next year.

[brudgers]

Do what makes you happy.

[jareklupinski]

choose what would make for a better story

[keyle]

This is a very underrated comment. On your death bed looking back this is a strong argument.

Think of it this way with 2 examples...

I'm following a large truck, and being followed by a large truck on the motorway. I'm thinking to myself "there is no good story that starts with 'so, I was following this huge truck closely on the highway...' I get out of the lane, either overtaking or letting them pass.

On the other hand if I get an opportunity to work for a year in Singapore, that's the start of a good story. Let's go.

You only live once is truther for every year passing by.

Regrets hurt more than debts, unless tied of course! Having choices is being rich.

[rozenmd]

Ppersonally I learned French, moved to France, and started working remotely for American companies.

10/10 would recommend.

[siamese_puff]

How long did it take you to learn French?

[rozenmd]

Two years of two hours after work, 2x a week (could've easily compressed it into months if I had a tight deadline imo)

Then a few months of living here and realising no one speaks that formally hah

[siamese_puff]

That’s cool! What resources did you like best? Did you use Anki? I’m about to start learning Italian for fun.

[marcus_holmes]

If you find an answer, please post it.

Some of us have no home, and seem doomed to wander the planet forever. Everywhere has good points and bad points, and the grass is always greener elsewhere. In Berlin, we [0] missed the beach. In Australia, we missed the nightlife. In SE Asia we didn't like being "Farangs" (foreigners, assumed rich). In Mexico we missed SE Asia (for multiple reasons).

Being able to work (globally) remotely is a blessing and a curse, because we can indulge this wanderlust. Committing to a single place and just putting up with the less-great points would be great, but every time we've tried we end up moving on after a couple of years.

We have friends all over the world now, which is kinda cool but no substitute for having friends in the same place as us. But neither of us kept any friends from our childhood and once you get past your 20's you don't make those kind of ultra-long-term friends any more.

So yeah, my advice: if you can settle somewhere, do it while you're young and preferably still at uni/college/school where you can make long-term friends. OR accept that you have no home and deal with the consequences: an adventurous life with very little community around you.

[0] "We" is my wife and I. We met while travelling, both looking for somewhere to call home, and home is now mostly each other, at least until we find somewhere. Maybe. Eventually.

[purple-leafy]

My better half is smarter than me, so I go where they go :P

But that aside, we live in a remote island and by family, that’s all we really need.

I do wish there were more “hackerman” people I could find and hang with though.

But it sounds like you have a good thing going with a tech background and a second skill (music) - why not finish the music school then have a second look at areas you can move to with more people/opportunity?

One thing I do for difficult decisions is make a basic solutions matrix: rank your n priorities in decreasing number towards 1, and then rate “staying put” vs “moving” giving each a score of 0 or 1 for each priority. You can only assign 0 or 1 once per priority. Multiply each score by the priority weight and sum up the total. Whichever wins is your answer. You should also definitely add a “green grass bias” priority whose weighting is the negative version of the weighting your most important priority. Do this in excel etc or by hand.

———

Here’s a simple attempt (not tabular):

Priority scores (etc):

- Proximity to people (5)

- Fulfilling (4)

- Software-centricity (3)

- Career opportunities (2)

- Cost (1)

- Green-grass bias (-5)

——-

Staying Put (L) vs City (R)

- 0 , 1 [proximity etc]

- 1 , 0 [fulfilment etc]

- 0 , 1 [software etc]

- 0 , 1 [career etc]

- 1 , 0 [cost etc]

- 0 , 1 [bias]

——

Total scores:

- Staying put : +5

- City : +5

—————

Add more priorities, the deeper you go the better analysis you can make of the results. I’ve made up the priorities as examples, but you will have your own!

Good luck

[kadushka]

You should look into the rapidly developing field of AI music generation. Chances are you will love it.

[eshack94]

I might be off-base here, but I get the sense that OP's dysphoria/ennui/ambivalence/Weltschmerz is less about what they're doing as an occupation and more other things that need to be explored more deeply. 27 can be a difficult age with many conflicting/confusing feelings and thoughts, and sorting some of those out might be the key. Again, could be way off-base here — impossible to know from a single short post like this.

[dangerhanded]

Kind of suspicious that almost every comment here was written 44 minutes ago. Just saying.

[liminal-dev]

I see the same. Looks like a bug on HN’s side.