[gambiting]

>>But it was hidden

When you start the game, you literally get a full screen banner that says a PSN account is required to play and you must sign in. It's just that until now you could click cancel and the game would still launch.

How can anyone call it "hidden" is literally beyond me. It's not hidden on page 527 of the EULA or something - it's literally said explicitly on a full screen banner shown to every player who has started the game. Not to mention it's mentioned on the Steam store page.

[bluefirebrand]

Two things:

1) This dialog only showed one time, the very first time you launched the game

2) This dialog was skippable

If you skipped it one single time, it let you play for months now without ever seeing it again. If they wanted to make it clear it was mandatory eventually then the wording and behavior should have made this clear every single time you open the game

Allowing to skip means it's not mandatory, regardless of whatever language is written down on the UI, the TOS, on the steam page, or whatever else

If this was enforced upfront, people would have had an opportunity to refund immediately. If it was communicated clearly that the Skip was temporary, people could have made an informed choice about playing

[hiccuphippo]

Yes, how is it a technical difficulty to remove a skip button? Players from countries that can't legally acquire a PSN account, or don't want to get one, would have been able to return it ASAP. I guess it was easier to inflate their numbers.

[bluefirebrand]

The technical difficulty was that PSN was not integrated correctly so the skip button was put there so players could play without doing it

In their defense there is a sentence on that Modal that does say that a PSN account is required to play. It was also included on the Steam store page that it requires a PSN account. The issue I have is that the functionality of the Modal is at odds with the messaging. In this sort of case, I strongly believe that the Functionality should be taken as the fact, not the message.

If the messaging had been more clear that the Skip function was only temporary and a PSN account would absolutely be mandatory in the future then that would be different

As it stands, the message just seems like a Dark Pattern to try and get users who do not notice the skip button to link a non-mandatory PSN account.

[gambiting]

"If the messaging had been more clear that the Skip function was only temporary and a PSN account would absolutely be mandatory in the future then that would be different"

No it wouldn't, because people would still complain. There could be a flashing popup present at all times in a corner of your screen saying "YOU MUST SIGN INTO PSN TO PLAY" and people would still complain, there's no satisfying the outrage when it happens.

[bluefirebrand]

People would still complain but their complaints would not hold any water

As it stands, Sony and Arrowhead have created a mess with inconsistent messaging, inconsistent behavior, and extremely poor customer relations

[ClumsyPilot]

> Players from countries that can't legally acquire a PSN account

Would easily win a lawsuit.

As a publisher, it is your job to check these things before you process payment, that why you have a department of lawyers and regional availability settings in Steam.

If their system of accounts, online systems and EULA's are mutually contradicting and incompatible mess, that's on them.

Once you have taken my money, it is now your job to provide the service.

[bun_terminator]

In lawyer terms: yes.

But the reality of modern gaming is this: You start a game and do a marathon of pressing "no", "cancel", "skip", "x", "close" etc to shut off all the bullshit it throws at you. I did so with helldivers and was completely unaware what it says about psn. I didn't even know it was a console game or that Sony was involved! And I would never have bought it if I knew. So in practice I'd say it's exactly as hidden as page 527 on EULA

[leereeves]

I sort of agree, in that I skip a lot of the legal text during installation. I didn't read the EULA, for example.

But this requirement had an entire installation page dedicated to it. It was the only text on that page. I'm honestly surprised people somehow missed it.

[temp84858696945]

Not all players got this banner, especially players from countries where they cannot sign up for PSN accounts.

They never should have allowed sales in countries where people cannot legally sign up for a PSN account. Especially when they allowed those players to play for months and are now "banning" them, preventing them from playing the game they paid for.

In addition, literally the only place where this requirement was stated was the steam sale page - the EULA had no mention of the PSN account, Sony's webpage explicitly stated you did not require an account to play playstation games on PC.

[twixfel]

OK but by that point it is too late, you need to be informed before you purchase the game, not after.

> Not to mention it's mentioned on the Steam store page.

On the sony online store it's stated that it is not necessary.

[gambiting]

On the steam page it says it is. I wasn't aware that Sony's page says otherwise.

[bluefirebrand]

Sony's FAQ previously (on May 3) stated that a PSN account is optional for playing games on PC

On May 4, the day after this shitstorm happened, the FAQ was updated to say that some games on PC may require a PSN account

This was rolled out in absolutely amateurish fashion from start to end. Sony should absolutely be taking heat for this, and no one should be going to bat for them over it.

[gambiting]

Again, I only bought this game on Steam and

1) the Steam page made it very clear the PSN is required

2) the game makes it extremely clear with a full screen banner that says you MUST sign in to play.

Honestly, if you bought the game on Steam then Sony's FAQ is irrelevant. If you bought it from Sony then I guess there is some case there.

[bluefirebrand]

FYI Buying it through Steam is still buying it from Sony. Steam is just a storefront, Sony is the publisher

Sony's FAQ is absolutely relevant here, and they clearly agreed which is why they changed it

[twixfel]

So I guess it's not a great idea to make broad sweeping claims based off your own personal experience.