[yosito]

> staff at food places can be sometimes less than reliable about food allergy concerns

As someone with Celiac disease, who often eats at restaurants, this is a bit of an understatement. Even in restaurants where things are marked allergen free on the menu, it is often the case that staff will make mistakes. More often than not, staff aren't even informed about the basics of food, things like eggs and dairy being two separate foods, or that they can't just scrape some sauce off of a bun if they put it there by mistake, etc. If I had a life threatening allergy, I would never set foot in a restaurant. It's terrifying.

[neomantra]

> staff at food places can be sometimes less than reliable about food allergy concerns

In 2000, I was working at an NYC restaurant (Josie's on Third) -- it was a new non-dairy health-focused organic-everything restaurant. The waitstaff was trained in all the ingredients and many of the sources and were highly conscious of needs of our customers. We were tested on it a staff meal.

One day, two friends sat to dine... we brought bread and our non-dairy spread. Customer asked "what is this?" I replied, "it is red-pepper tahini, an alternative to butter". I take their order, tend to other tables and arranging beverages, when I come back around 5 minutes later the table is empty. I ask my manager "what happened?"

The lady had a severe sesame allergy and was rushed to the hospital -- *she did not know that tahini was sesame paste and I did not tell her*. I have no idea what happened to her and I think about this several times per year.

For the last 15+ years, I have been a hands-on operator of complex computer systems operator. This experience has absolutely shaped how I communicate with teams, how I look at how failures may happen, how to expect the unexpected, etc.

I now have a son with peanut allergies. It also influences how we dine. It is not easy and I'm glad there's out-of-band solutions like these drug therapies. We are not there yet, but might consider it.

[emeril]

I remember Josies... nice place back then

Definitely odd that a person with a severe sesame allergy didn't know about tahini - she can't even eat hummus

That said, I suppose decades back such foods were less mainstream and/or she was new to the allergy

[pfannkuchen]

> and I did not tell her

I don’t think you should feel too bad about this. Having a severe sesame allergy and not knowing what tahini is and also not asking about sesame in dishes is quite reckless IMO. They were bound to accidentally eat something with tahini in it eventually.

[neomantra]

Thanks for that :) I don’t beat myself up — I did then! — but I do use it for reflection.

[ender341341]

> The lady had a severe sesame allergy and was rushed to the hospital -- she did not know that tahini was sesame paste and I did not tell her.

I saw similar with corn, my cat was having a severe reaction to something and vet suggested getting food without corn in it, then gave me a list of like 20 different names for ingredients manufacturers use to hide corn.

(though with your's it's not we're trying to hide/obfuscate ingredients)

[cpuguy83]

I am so sorry. I was a server... 20 years ago holy crap... I've been that server. They asked if something was safe for celiac. I had no idea, nobody else did either.

Today, my partner is a severe celiac. Any traces of gluten takes them out for at least 2 weeks. Any hesitation from a restaurant from a restaurant and we are gone.

I think that person ended up ordering. Of course literally nothing in that restaurant was safe for celiac if for nothing else than cross contamination.

So sorry.

[mlrtime]

TBH I don't think a server should be responsible to know all these things.

They should be able to answer specific questions or find out from the Chef. Ultimately it's up to the customer to understand the risks of eating out.

[cpuguy83]

Completely disagree. For the restaurant in question it is a major national chain, so indeed it is harder for the server to have this knowledge on every dish, but at least a book of allergens... really the company should have this available in a friendly manner online.

But even then, the server should absolutely know (and therefore be trained on) major allergens in the kitchen because its not just the food, its how its prepared.

20 years ago I didn't know, I didn't know that I ought to know. I didn't know that I could have caused that person significant harm. I was a teenager. But my managers absolutely should have known and not put me in that position where I didn't know something so fundamental to food service. We were trained on other things.

[mrgoldenbrown]

The staff should be able to answer questions about what ingredients are used in the kitchen and in specific dishes. but they shouldn't be responsible for answering the question as you posed it : "is this safe for someone with celiac" ? Safety is up to you to decide, as only the customer knows how sensitive they are and what the reaction will be.

[cpuguy83]

Celiac is a specific condition, not even an allergy. If someone has celiac, they cannot have gluten without bad consequences. Being able to serve someone with celiac means the kitchen has deliberately chosen to do so and have procedures in place for doing it. Things like changing out gloves, cleaning surfaces or having dedicated space. This also means knowing what cannot be made safe, which often is things like french fries because friers tend to be shared with gluten products.

[cosmodisk]

Our daughter is allergic to a few things,nuts being one of them. When we ask for food information at restaurants, often staff have no clue. We had cases where they couldn't confirm for sure even after checking with the kitchen( we walked away).

[Broken_Hippo]

I'm sorry, but why would you expect someone to know all of the food ingredients on the menu - even if they work there - if they don't personally prepare all of the foods? Heck, in the US, most of the places aren't even paying their staff a decent wage.

Servers go by the menu as well. It isn't like there is a list most places.

If the owners cared about your allergies, they'd make sure their staff could find out easily. Blame the folks that own the place, not the servers.

[cnity]

I didn't read GP as blaming servers so much as demonstrating what is effectively systemic ignorance in the restaurant industry. The inability to 100% confirm ingredients is highlighted as not only being due to servers not knowing the exact contents of all meals (which is understandable), but also the fact that those who prepare and cook the meals as also being uncertain.

[windowsrookie]

The problem is a large portion of the food in restaurants is not prepared in the restaurant. If you order a burger meal, yes the meat is cooked on the grill at the restaurant, but the buns, and any sauce were likely made somewhere else. They might purchase the meat pre-seasoned from the food distributor. And the french fries likely even have a seasoning pre-applied to them before they are delivered to the restaurant.

[ebiester]

But that makes it easier for the restaurant!

You have the ingredients on a package to check. The head chef can do it while constructing the recipe. And you can explicitly order gluten free substitutes that stay in the freezer until needed.

[ifyoubuildit]

Does that make it acceptable? Its like if a dev blames a library for a bug in their product that they are charging money for.

[twunde]

There are some places that are much better about this than others. I remember in Europe several of the restaurants had _books_ containing all the potential ingredients and cross-allergens for each dish. I distinctly remember Wagamama's in London pulling one out and double-checking it due to my spouse's eggplant allergy. Sadly it removed most of the menu that we were excited to eat, but it was damn impressive.

[watwut]

In many countries, the restaurants are expected to know allergens by law. Each food on the menu is supposed to have list of allergens available. Usually they are available right there in the menu, you do not even have to ask.

[vjjsejj]

> Heck, in the US, most of the places aren't even paying their staff a decent wage.

Getting > 20% of the total revenue in a restaurant seems like a pretty good deal though. I doubt most servers would prefer getting the 2-3x Federal minimum wage and no tips.

And in some states like CA, WA, NYC it’s a (relatively) very well paid job.

[cosmodisk]

I don't expect people to know every single item on the menu and all the ingredients they are made of. What I do expect is if a meal is made in a restaurant, the restaurant ( as a whole) to know whether it contains milk, soya,nuts, bananas, whatever. We have fairly strict regulations when it comes to this, but how they are actually applied is a completely different thing.

[beacon294]

Celiac is life threatening as far as I know.

[yosito]

Celiac disease is life threatening like smoking is life threatening. Yes, it can kill you, if you regularly ignore the harm you are doing to your body and continue indulging. But someone with Celiac Disease isn't going to go into anaphylactic shock and die on the spot.

[moneywoes]

hi fellow celiac

any upcoming new celiac tech you find exciting?

[teen]

maybe you're just allergic to glyphosate, not wheat. glyphosate is in pretty much everything now

[shwaj]

This might be true for people in general, but people who have been diagnosed with Celiac disease are definitely allergic to wheat.

[k_process]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945755/ "Glyphosate, pathways to modern diseases II: Celiac sprue and gluten intolerance"

Here, we propose that glyphosate is the most important causal factor in this [celiac disease and gluten intolerance] epidemic.

[dahart]

Don’t forget this awesome quote: “However, a recent paper (Samsel & Seneff, 2013), argued that glyphosate may be a key contributor to the obesity epidemic and the autism epidemic in the United States, as well as to several other diseases and conditions, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, infertility, depression, and cancer.”

It’s causing all the bad things? That would be amazing if true, unfortunately it sounds unlikely (chiropractic comes to mind) and the rest of the science world doesn’t believe these authors.

If the graphs in the paper seem compelling, make sure to spend some time here: https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

[refurb]

Did you read the paper? My guess is no.

Classic HN, references a paper as if the conclusions are fact and all references are equivalent.

This is a paper where the authors did no experiments of their own, just put forth a hypotheses.

The lead author is an “independent scientist”.

Suffice to say I’d be very suspect of the conclusions drawn.

[bigbillheck]

> The lead author is an “independent scientist”.

The other one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Seneff

[refurb]

Ooph…

“In 2011, she began publishing controversial papers in low-impact, open access journals on biology and medical topics; the articles have received "heated objections from experts in almost every field she's delved into,"”

[lm28469]

Not wheat, gluten

edit: for the downvotes, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeliac_disease

> where individuals develop intolerance to gluten

> Coeliac disease is caused by a reaction to gluten

> While the disease is caused by a permanent intolerance to gluten proteins,[10] it is distinct from wheat allergy, which is much more rare

[HardlyCognizant]

Not even gluten, one of the peptides it is composed of. Prolamins like gliadin, horadin, etc. depending on the grain. This is why gluten denaturing proteases aren't sufficient to protect a celiac, and thus some technically GF foods aren't necessarily safe.

[amluto]

My impression has been that the real problems are:

1. The enzymes are not yet well tested.

2. Most enzymes one might purchase are subject to the extremely weak US supplement labeling laws and thus cannot be trusted.

In any case, there’s an enzyme combo working its way through the FDA process right now:

https://celiac.org/about-the-foundation/featured-news/2021/0...

[yosito]

Interesting! Tell me more! Do you have any sources where I can read more about this?

[yosito]

I have celiac disease. When I eat foods that contain gluten or a similar protein, avenin, it triggers an immune reaction which causes inflammation and damage in my intestines. It's not an allergy, it's not a wheat allergy, it's not a glyphosate allergy. You may keep your uninformed opinion.