[Keirmot]

I fail to understand your point. What kind of feature do you to be excited to see in a product that is 16 years old?

Do you think the and thing when you buy a new dishwasher, a couch, a chair? That it’s mediocre?

Smartphones are not the future anymore, there’s people starting university soon that always had one, and never lived in a world without the iPhone.

Also, besides arguably the first few iPhones, Apple never distinguished itself from the competition with the technology it uses, but by the quality of its offering, which is why bending phones or poorly designed antennas are more important for them than having the newest tech available half a second after being commercially viable - that’s what Android OEMs do to differentiate.

I know that for me, personally, having a new iPhone with USB-C is a must have feature, which is why I have my iPhone 11 still chumming along.

[onion2k]

Do you think the and thing when you buy a new dishwasher, a couch, a chair? That it’s mediocre?

Those are things that you replace every 5 to 10 years. People do see innovation with those products because they only look at new ones occasionally.

If people have the same expectations of their iPhone, and they get off the upgrade treadmill of a new phone every 2 years and start buying every 5 years that would mean Apple's iPhone sales would drop by roughly a half among the core group who buy every new model. That would have a very significant impact on their share price.

[camillomiller]

LOL it would not. People buy iPhones on average every three year. The yearly upgraders are just a vocal minority. I’ve had moderately tech savvy people move from an iPhone X to an iPhone 14 and literally describe the jump as “mindblowing”. All is relative, but HN users on average want absolutes, and repeatedly fail to understand how they’re part of a mostly irrelevant opinion bubble when it comes to being relevant as average consumers.

[idkwhoiam]

Hmm I wonder what was so "mindblowing" for them. I went from 6s plus to 13 pro and didn't notice a difference other than battery life & speed.

[camillomiller]

Have you even tried taking a picture and looking at it? :D

[myspy]

I upgraded from the Xs to the 14 Pro. The camera is superb (as an amateur photo guy), the display is better, I like the always on screen, performance is snappier, RAM is bigger so apps don't close as often, and it's sturdier. Fell down and instead of breaking somewhere it made a dent in the asphalt.

[replygirl]

just upgraded from an 11 to a 14 pro, initially was excited, now i'm disappointed every time i go in to edit a photo shot in raw. these are still commodity cameras--all it takes is an overcast day to make photos a blotchy mess

[FalconSensei]

It doesn't match my experience. It's easier to take a decent photo n rough conditions on the iPhone, than a camera. I have Sony a6400, Ricoh grIIIx, Fuji X100V and X-T5. With the iPhone (and androids too) you just point and shoot. With the cameras you do have to fiddle way more or use bracketing and still edit later. The phone does bracketing for you without you even noticing. Plus, the iPhone at least (not sure about android) very easily remove people walking behind the thing you were photographing

[lawgimenez]

In our family, we upgrade an average of ~2-3 years because of our mobile plan. My wife got recently an iPhone 14 Pro, I got her iPhone 12, my Xr goes to my MIL, and so on.

Coming from Xr to 12 is mindblowing for me for someone who has a poor eyesight.

[artursapek]

Hacker News mfers projecting their tech gadget addiction on the general population ahahahaha

[rusticpenn]

I am going to upgrade my phone after 8 years, and expect to do the same again.

[nottorp]

My iPhone xs is 4.5 years old and going strong.

Got a friend who upgraded from a 6s to a 13.

I dont know who upgrades every year…

[unstatusthequo]

Every year exactly when new one is available, I do. I just think of most devices as rentals, effectively. Sell the old, buy the new. The delta is the cost of having a new phone with fresh battery and newest features, which to me is worth it for the relatively low cost.

[nottorp]

I did rush and buy a new iPhone for a feature i had to have once. Unfortunately it was the iPhone 4S.

Havent seen anything really enticing lately.

Do you remember the time when a new phone model was noticeably faster than last year’s? I do. Vaguely. Barely. Those times are gone.

[KaiserPro]

7 plus I've for just under 7 years. one battery replacement and its mostly as new. Although there is a lack of OS support now...

[squeaky-clean]

> What kind of feature do you to be excited to see in a product that is 16 years old?

The ability for it to replace a macbook air if you add a keyboard/mouse/screen for one. How about a 3d camera for integration with vision pro? There's still so much they can do.

Even the previous iPhone had lots of great actual new features. Always-on OLED display. Action Camera mode. Auto focus capable front-facing camera. Dynamic island. 2000 nit brightness capable screen. Satellite SoS. Car crash detection.

[kalleboo]

> How about a 3d camera for integration with vision pro

https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/12/23870546/iphone-15-pro-ma...

[andy_ppp]

How can this not be rubbish? Your eyes are on average 6.3cm apart and these cameras on your phone appear to be about 1.5cm…

I don’t believe software can bridge that gap so I suspect it’ll look very strange when viewed in 3D…

[hunter2_]

Once every object in the frame is mapped to 3D coordinates, exaggerating the parallax is trivial (like rendering a video game for 3D glasses / VR), but to your point, figuring out what was behind those objects (to fill in the negative space that remains after translation) is a guessing game, equivalent to various smart fill / magic eraser features. Originally they used only context from the same photo, and nowadays they also use generative AI. Not always great results.

[andy_ppp]

Only time will tell how well it works, are there other cameras with such small distances filming 3D video?

[twoodfin]

Keep in mind it also has a LiDAR sensor building a point cloud at the same time.

[MockObject]

Phones are longer than 6.3cm, so put the other camera on the other end, with the added benefit of encouraging landscape-oriented images as well.

[dmd]

There are some small predators with excellent binocular vision who would like a word with you.

[andy_ppp]

It's not about if predators have good eyes, it's much more about your brain expects to be processing depth information based on the difference between the two images (will having your eyes effectively 4cm+ closer together feel weird?). The images from each camera will clearly be different to your eyes but maybe your brain easily adapts.

Others have said there are algorithms allowing all the objects in a scene to be distorted/rerendered in such a way that this can be corrected for but I am extremely skeptical of this without evidence.

[lostlogin]

This isn’t a change in pace though is it?

The iPhone has had a tick tock cadence forever.

[tommit]

Keep in mind that you're commenting in the thread about the iPhone 15, not the iPhone 15 Pro. With your comment you're comparing the new iPhone 15 with the features of last year's iPhone 14 Pro. The Pro features are always more extensive, just as this year's. The following year, most of those features typically trickle down to the non-Pro iPhone.

[nottorp]

> The ability for it to replace a macbook air if you add a keyboard/mouse/screen for one.

Whats the point? It wont be cheaper if you want usable input and screens. It will Take more space than a laptop wherever you decide to use it.

How do you use even an iPad + keyboard Combo if all you have is a chair?

[bdamm]

They introduced LIDAR into the iPhone Pro 12 and every Pro since has had it. So if you want that 3D camera (which works great, btw) you gotta spring for the Pro.

[camillomiller]

Using your smartphone as your computer is one of the most “tested as a consumer failure in the market” features ever. Many have tried, all failed miserably. Convergence is cool on paper until nobody uses it because it makes no practical sense. Useful to give great tradeshow demos, and that’s it

[hunter2_]

I've never been this consumer, but I imagine the hangup is that by the time you've added a keyboard and display to your backpack, you could've just added a laptop instead at a similar weight/size, and while the separate laptop means foregoing the continuity of state, you gain the ability to start your "large mode" session by merely opening a hinge, which is less friction (literally and figuratively) than docking disparate components.

[Aerbil313]

I’m convinced phone-computer will never happen until a large holographic screen and a similar holographic keyboard.

[axelthegerman]

I sometimes bring my laptop "just in case" when going to a friend's place.

If I could just plug in my phone to their USB C monitor that is already connected to a mouse and keyboard that'd be amazing for quickly using YOUR device.

Why would anyone need this? Because I could have my ssh keys and some software on it - sure I could have a bootable USB drive and try to boot their desktop (or laptop?!) from it... but that seems more involved than being able to converge your phone.

It's just that nobody nailed the software side of it. Apple could but they just don't care. Linux tried and they will keep trying

[vel0city]

Microsoft pretty much did nail the software side of it, but nobody really cared.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/continuum

This is pretty much exactly what you're looking for. A phone OS on the phone, plug it in, get a desktop OS on a desktop. It worked pretty well, even for the limited hardware at the time.

If a device supports Displayport Alternate Mode on USB-C, there are docks that work like how you're imagining. But I do agree, for a lot of devices the mobile OS just doesn't really have a great desktop experience.

https://plugable.com/products/uds-7in1

[vetinari]

Samsung did it with DeX; so now you have your mobile OS with mobile apps inside overlapping, dynamically sized windows.

For emergency use, it is ok. For a prolonged one, a separate laptop is vastly better experience.

[ClumsyPilot]

This is like saying that nuclear fusion is useless, because all reactors have been a failure.

Just becauae you cant get it to work well, does not mean you can blame the consumer.

[rsynnott]

I'm not sure about the current distinction between iOS and iPadOS (Apple seems to periodically decide that these are the same things or different things depending on mood), but plug a mouse, keyboard and monitor into a modern iPad and you have... a surprisingly okay desktop for many use cases.

[itsoktocry]

>The ability for it to replace a macbook air if you add a keyboard/mouse/screen for one.

I fail to see how this is in any way an improvement over just buying a MacBook Air and having the screen, mouse and keyboard built in. Thew laptop is way more portable.

[misja111]

> What kind of feature do you to be excited to see in a product that is 16 years old?

A battery that lasts longer than a day.

[Oreb]

The battery in my two years old 13 Pro Max already lasts two days with normal use. I expect the new phones (at least the big ones) to last even longer.

[runjake]

> What kind of feature do you to be excited to see in a product that is 16 years old?

Satellite communications.

A 48 megapixel camera with ever improving computational photography.

[bayindirh]

Current 12MP cameras are actually 48MP sensors, which use pixel binning for better color and noise. You’re bound by physics here, not corporations.

I didn’t check recent sensors, but 24MP ones would be 96MP with binning. Sony makes multi-mode sensors which can produce different sized outputs to optimize details and image quality for a given light amount.

Computational photography is like artificial flavoring. It looks fine, but lacks the finesse of a big sensor. Also, “dreaming” things in photography is a no go in some contexts.

Also, I think some iPhone models have emergency satellite communications already, no?

[lscharen]

> Also, I think some iPhone models have emergency satellite communications already, no?

Yes, Emergency SOS. This was the feature that allowed a family to be located and rescued recently during the Hawaii fires.

https://www.macworld.com/article/2027967/iphone-14-emergency...

[roudaki]

Eye tracking. as someone who trains a lot of old and non tech people is still hard to explain why are interfaces so unaware of our face asp eyes

[replygirl]

samsung and amazon have done that, it worked well and nobody... blinked an eye.

YYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[boringg]

I appreciate the lack of eye tracking TBH.

[UweSchmidt]

If there are no major innovations possible for a product, it should be a lower-priced, long-lasting commodity.

[jdietrich]

Android phones are a lower-priced commodity. Apple products are luxury goods, like designer shoes or prestige cars. Apple will sell you last year's iPhone at a discount, but only on the clear understanding that it is visibly a cheap, old iPhone. If the basic form factor doesn't change between generations, you can guarantee that the color will.

Apple's profits clearly vindicate this as a business strategy.

[boringg]

iPhones used to be Veblyn goods not sure if they are any more.

[Lio]

It would only be priced as a commodity if it can be easily replicated as a commodity by 3rd parties.

Even without fresh innovations if the competition can't produce a product of equal quality it will still hold its value in the market place.

[BossingAround]

Says you, not Apple. The market seems to agree with Apple.

[SkiFire13]

> which is why bending phones or poorly designed antennas are more important for them

I see what you did there

[globular-toast]

I buy a new dishwasher when the old one has broken beyond repair. I certainly don't buy a new one following the latest BoschCon where they theatrically announce they are using the British Standard plug for power delivery now.

[typon]

When is the last time you watched a Keynote by GE CEO announcing a new dishwasher? The point is that they are pretending like its some sort of revolutionary new product instead of a run-of-the-mill minor cosmetic upgrade

[Lio]

That's probably because the dishwasher market won't respond to marketing in that way. There's little caché in owning the latest dishwasher.

Apple though has enough customers that they can separate and target segments individually.

I realised a few years ago that I'd stopped watching the Apple keynotes or checking their website.

Back when Jobs did them I watched all Apple keynotes but at some point I just stopped. I think this is because the keynotes are refocused on segments that respond to them best.

I still buy Apple products but sporadically. I'm not going to rush out for the latest iphone. I treat iPhones like dishwashers and only only replace them when they break.

However, there are people that will respond to fashion and that's who the keynote marketing is for.

Apple is big enough to treat each segment differently. Hence no pictures of middle aged, white blokes on the website, even though we're a sizeable part of the population in my country. We don't just respond to that type of marketing so it's safe to ignore us. I'll just read 3d party reviews when my phone finally needs replacing.

If there was a fashion market for dishwashers you probably would see the CEO of GE announcing their new products.

[parasubvert]

It's the most successful durable product line in history in terms of revenue and units sold. It sells far more than dishwashers. The tech also tends to be a lot more of an upgrade than a dishwasher gets.

[moogly]

> What kind of feature do you to be excited to see in a product that is 16 years old?

Certainly one that other phone manufacturers have had in their phones for the past 8 years? I jest, because I haven't cared that my phones have had USB-C for even longer than that because I've been wireless charging instead. I do believe iPhones do that these days though.

[thepostman0]

They did say huge leap forward in the article.

[dreamcompiler]

> What kind of feature do you to be excited to see in a product that is 16 years old?

How about an OS that's not walled-garden shite? One that any competent programmer could write an app for -- in any language they chose -- and offer for download to all comers without getting Apple's permission and without paying Apple a dime?

How about a development system built in to the phone so you could add a keyboard and a mouse and write an app, compile it, and install it without ever leaving the phone?

How about a 1/8" jack so I can listen privately on $15 wired buds from one of 1000 different suppliers without paying $300 for buds that are going to become e-waste as soon as their batteries refuse to charge?

How about being able to replace the main battery myself, in my home, without trashing the entire fu*king phone?

How about selling the phone with a decent protective case that still allows the Qi charger to work?

How about using formal methods to ensure some Israeli spyware group cannot constantly find zero-days in my phone and put my life in danger without constant after-the-fact patch-and-pray security upgrades?

I've been building chips, computers, and operating systems for decades. I know the subject like I know my own name. There is no technical reason Apple couldn't do all these things. They choose not to because not doing them makes Apple more money.

Apple is not refusing to do any of these things for cybersecurity or privacy reasons either. I eat, sleep, and breathe cybersecurity and I get paid for it. Apple could do everything on this list with zero security risk. They know this but they choose to lie and say otherwise.

Fuck apple and their horse. They are everything that is wrong with engineering under the control of rapacious capitalist greed.

[blakblakarak]

None of what you mention is important to me (an iPhone / Apple ecosystem user) and no, I am not ignorant to Apples forced limitations . If I actually wanted the same as you I'd buy an android and use linux as my OS, but I just want to forget that my devices exist - I want them to melt away into the background like a dishwasher or a sofa and let me get on with living my life.

[jstr_]

> How about being able to replace the main battery myself, in my home, without trashing the entire fu*king phone?

You can already do this, either getting the parts/tools thru Apple or on your own [0]

> How about using formal methods to ensure some Israeli spyware group cannot constantly find zero-days in my phone and put my life in danger without constant after-the-fact patch-and-pray security upgrades?

> How about a 1/8" jack so I can listen privately on $15 wired buds from one of 1000 different suppliers without paying $300 for buds that are going to become e-waste as soon as their batteries refuse to charge?

Those are fair, altho personally I've been using bluetooth headphones for 5+ years, only going wired when cycling or gaming, and I'm pretty happy with it.

The rest, approximately 0.01% (uneducated guess) of the consumers in the smartphone market will want or care about those things. The regular consumer doesn't want their phone to do everything and be everything, they want it to work for their use-case when they're expected to work, and be relatively easy to use.

Anyway, you seem to be a niche consumer, why aren't you looking for a niche product to match instead of complaining about a mass-market product that never has and probably never will fit your needs?

Genuine question, btw.

[0] https://support.apple.com/self-service-repair

[matwood]

> Anyway, you seem to be a niche consumer, why aren't you looking for a niche product to match instead of complaining about a mass-market product that never has and probably never will fit your needs?

The issue that's hard for many to admit is that in many case Apple makes the best devices from a hardware and quality standpoint (I also like iOS better than Android, but that's more subjective). If there were other players in the market making devices at Apple's level that also had some niche features we probably wouldn't see so many complaints.

[nihilius]

> How about an OS that's not walled-garden shite? One that any competent programmer could write an app for -- in any language they chose -- and offer for download to all comers without getting Apple's permission and without paying Apple a dime?

There are enough cross compile frameworks available. Sideloading is comming in the EU, i think till 2025.

> How about a development system built in to the phone so you could add a keyboard and a mouse and write an app, compile it, and install it without ever leaving the phone?

Will officially be possible with sideloading.

> How about a 1/8" jack so I can listen privately on $15 wired buds from one of 1000 different suppliers without paying $300 for buds that are going to become e-waste as soon as their batteries refuse to charge?

Use 15$ Bluetooth Buds from the 1000 different suppliers? Or use the dongle.

> How about being able to replace the main battery myself, in my home, without trashing the entire fu*king phone?

Is already officially possible.

> How about selling the phone with a decent protective case that still allows the Qi charger to work?

The Leather Case for example is working perfectly fine with Qi Charging.

> How about using formal methods to ensure some Israeli spyware group cannot constantly find zero-days in my phone and put my life in danger without constant after-the-fact patch-and-pray security upgrades?

All software will be exploited. Did you see how suffisticated the last exploit was? They build and own software cpu to execute their payload.