[simonw]

You should add that "Modern CSV is a tabular file editor/viewer for Windows, Mac, and Linux" line to the announcement page on https://www.moderncsv.com/modern-csv-2-is-now-available/ - for this kind of post it's always best to assume that people landing on the page don't know what the software is yet.

(It's easy to assume people will click the link from that page to https://www.moderncsv.com/ in order to find out more, but I'm not sure that's always a safe assumption!)

[wodenokoto]

Yeah, the HN title lead me to believe this would be version to of a modern cab specification.

A bit surprised to see that a specification had improved UI before it dawned on me that it’s a CSV reading.

[topato]

Haha, I had the same thought "Oh wow, I wonder what sorts of modern data storage techniques they managed to backport into simple CSV" And then.... disappoint. At least until I check out the software. It still sounds like the same column functions I get from notepad++ or VS:C

[nullindividual]

To expand upon this... the name is a problem.

"How can one make a _modern_ version of the CSV file format, let alone a second?"

[evanem]

The name only refers to the app's features and appearance. Well before I started development, I was looking for a CSV editor for my own use and everything I tried had a 90s look and feel. I figured just because the format is ancient doesn't mean the applications for it should be.

[coldtea]

>The name only refers to the app's features and appearance

Perhaps, but it's very easy to confuse with it being about a modern version of the CSV standard.

In fact that would be probably the default interpretation.

[kwanbix]

Yeah, that is the first thing I thought.

Modern CSV Editor will probably be a much better name.

[coldtea]

Yeah, and perhaps sticking the word together: ModernCSV Editor

[pnt12]

CSVEdit? Hopefully not sued by reddit!

[simondotau]

I think it’s a great name. Keep it. Even if it confuses some people at first, it’s the sort of confusion which will inspire many people — especially those who deal with text files all day and get pedantic about this stuff — to satisfy their incredulity and thus be exposed to your program.

This is perfect for a tool which most people, including those who would derive the most benefit from it, won’t even hypothesise the existence of.

[pbhjpbhj]

This type of marketing by deception is absolute anathema to me.

People will "dig deeper" because you tricked then into thinking what you've made of something else, something that person knows they want. Bleurgh.

Yes, that's consistent with modern marketing: make people get your product even if they don't want it and/or don't need it. But, really, are you so desperate. You might save a 1000 hours by making it clear what the subject is; choosing to waste others time [which I'm not at all claiming the OP has done] is contemptible.

[evanem]

Definitely not my intent.

[simondotau]

And it's obvious that it wasn't. Don't apologise. Ignore the critics. Any real potential customer will be far too distracted by the excitement of discovering a new thing which might make their life easier; they're not going to be lingering on the moment of cognitive dissonance. Anyone who does was never going to be your customer anyway.

[ckastner]

> it’s the sort of confusion which will inspire many people — especially those who deal with text files all day and get pedantic about this stuff — to satisfy their incredulity and thus be exposed to your program.

Confusion doesn't inspire, it irritates. And to pedantic people, the satisfaction comes from being rightfully irritated.

You're basically advocating in defense of misleading/false advertising.

[coldtea]

>it’s the sort of confusion which will inspire many people

...to skip it, because while they could use a CSV file editor, they don't care to read about yet another "modern CSV" format.

Confusion can only inspire if potential users pass from hearing about this, to the next level (of checking what it is about).

I, for one, almost didn't click the HN submission because of this reason.

[ChrisNorstrom]

Ignore them, ModernCSV is perfect and memorable. That's how I remembered it and found it.

[coldtea]

Of course those who skipped it because of the name wouldn't be posting...

https://medium.com/@penguinpress/an-excerpt-from-how-not-to-...

[bombcar]

Something playing on CSV could work - CSVlad or CSViper or CSVi

[agar]

CSVi is quite clever. It immediately conjures the idea that its an editor for CSVs.

I assumed from the HN headline that Modern CSV version 2 was an iteration on some new CSV specification.

[jdmichal]

CSVi is cute and clever in exactly the way you don't want to be. It loses the entire audience of people who are Excel jockeys working with CSV files and maybe frustrated with the experience. Software engineers and system admins know what vi is. The rest of the world doesn't.

[bombcar]

The worse is the people who do know what vi is, and assume that it's a vi plugin or worse, an editor using vi bindings, and ignore it.

[avgcorrection]

You know that was my first though as well (new CSV version), but then I thought that a new version wouldn't make sense since (1) there is already a specification (the RFC), and (2) those who don't care about the current RFC won't care about a new spec, either.

CSV is one of those things that are everywhere because it is “obvious”. Then we have to deal with 100 interpretations of “obvious” decades later, since not enough people care about standardization.

[another-dave]

It is clever but I can imagine the comments the OP would've gotten if posting "CSVi" and it didn't use vi-like keyboard shortcuts!

[sdenton4]

Spoiler: it's Parquet.

[yencabulator]

Parquet is great but I'd argue ndjson[1] is closer to "modern" CSV. That is, people who like to describe things as "modern" and "elegant" are likely to want JSON everywhere ;-)

[1]: Newline-delimited JSON, http://ndjson.org/

[__del__]

i agree with the nibling comment that this name works precisely because it provokes curiosity about its relevance.

i can't be the only dev who saw this headline and wondered whether some entity was pushing for a csv standardization (e.g. guarantees about encoding, escaping, etc.)

[DonHopkins]

No no no, not CSVi, but CSVmacs!!! ;)

[cxr]

> How can one make a _modern_ version of the CSV file format

Check out WebCSV*:

<http://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-data-primer/>

* I'm aware that "WebCSV" isn't the real name, but it should be.

[shmoe]

That sort of thing usually breeds curiosity and leads someone to dig in deeper about the product though.

[bee_rider]

I don’t really see the problem. Of course, CSV is more of a vague description of a family of pseudo-standards, rather than an actual standard. But Modern CSV seems like a fine name for an actual standard that takes inspiration from them.

[coldtea]

That's exactly the problem.

This isn't about a name "for an actual standard that takes inspiration from them" but for a CSV editing software.