[miroljub]

Mindfulness meditation may reduce stress levels, but only temporary. Instead of focusing on the source of stress and trying to solve the underlying issues, it fights the symptoms.

I don't say that it doesn't "work", but one should be aware of the limitation of mindfulness practices, and look at it just as one of the tools in a tool set to fight stress, not as a holy grail, like many of its proponents preach.

[TekMol]

User counters 13000 word meta study by simply stating the opposite without giving any arguments, sources or studies.

Is there a forum like Hacker News, but with no "talking out of your ass"?

How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this?

The thought "Is it a long term effect or just temporary?" is totally fine. But then just posting out of your ass does not help anyobody. A quick search for "months" in the meta study shows that they looked at effects during the 6 months after the intervention.

So I think many people together could come up with an interesting discussion. But it would mean everybody has to do some work.

[theaussiestew]

He gave details but you provided no rebuttal of his rebuttal. I would agree with him in the sense that just neutral observation often fixes the problem, but often can be a form of spiritually bypassing your problems. For example, if we're anxious from a lack of income, but all we do is neutrally observe, that's not solving the root problem.

[klmlryc11]

Meta studies study individual papers which in turn are essentially asking people if they feel happier if they do X. Anecdotally.

This particular one does a lot of math which no one has the patience to verify. It just sounds smart, like the papers on nature.com that advertise probiotics.

If you trick yourself into being happy while being exploited by the system it may indeed work (that's why rulers liked Christianity as a tool for pacifying the masses). But you are not solving the underlying issues.

[mrguyorama]

>How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this?

Well, the way you achieve a forum where nobody talks out of your ass is by making a forum without a submit button.

However I agree, it's absurd the level of quackery that takes over HN in these circumstances, as if one SV weirdo's magic mushroom trip invalidates decades of genuine research on what makes people stressed and the ways to mitigate that stress.

Nope, apparently we are just all following the wrong religion!

[astrange]

> User counters 13000 word meta study by simply stating the opposite without giving any arguments, sources or studies.

Well, it's quite true that sometimes instead of developing stress resilience you should simply get rid of the source of the stress.

[hombre_fatal]

Yes but that’s a trivial claim.

[miroljub]

Care to claim something substantial and contribute to the discussion in a non-trivial way?

[astrange]

I think it's the kind of obvious thing you still need to remind yourself of.

[hombre_fatal]

Trivial claims aren't useful responses because we can just grant them.

That mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing distress isn't changed by the fact that the people who can simply remove their stress sources from their life. Go ahead and do that. Now let's talk about everyone else.

[celdon25]

> How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this?

I’ve seen the best results with niche email lists that actively moderate the discussion quality. But the results are mixed and I eventually decided that it’s a lost cause. People who don’t bring anything to the table tend to have more time on their hands to post nonsense.

[verteu]

A minimum word limit on comments could help. I'd much prefer "in-depth and dismissive" comments over "brief and dismissive" ones.

[miroljub]

> User counters 13000 word meta study by simply stating the opposite without giving any arguments, sources or studies.

I am giving my opinion on a random forum, not writing a study about mindfulness. I didn't even say anything controversial, a glance at the wikipedia page would list a bunch of criticism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness#Concerns_and_criti...

> Is there a forum like Hacker News, but with no "talking out of your ass"? > How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this?

For example, you could try not to be an asshole and not to "talk out of your ass". Be a change you want to see.

Btw, in your case, a mindfulness practice could actually help. Instead of pretending to be an angry internet gestapo, you can try some basic breathing practices for a few minutes.

[verteu]

> I didn't even say anything controversial, a glance at the wikipedia page would list a bunch of criticism.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness#Concerns_and_criti

Nothing in that Wiki link supports your claim that mindfulness doesn't fight the root cause of distress. The 'Scholarly Research' subsection says reviewers want more reproducing studies with larger sample sizes and better randomization (they always do), the 'Shortcomings' subsection claims it's too commercialized and departs from Buddhist practice (so what?), and the 'Risks' subsection describes some side effects that are proven rare in the literature.

The Buddhist critiques are closest, but are largely framed as a critique of authenticity rather than efficacy.

[tuyiown]

Ha, but your are both right with the wrong behavior.

You're entitled to you tone, and your initial comment is valid, yes, but it's way to much assertive. Respecting people you're discussing with implies two things: strong assertion needs objective backup, opinions comes with deference.

If not, then, people feeling disrespected are entitled to their (civil) call for proper etiquette, whatever how it stings your ego. You both failed.

[unsubstantiated]

>How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this?

Asking people to post their work and downvoting/flagging/banning them if they refuse.

[jstx1]

> Instead of focusing on the source of stress and trying to solve the underlying issues, it fights the symptoms.

This only makes sense if you assume that being stressed is a correct and useful response to your environment.

[Sakos]

A lot of times, you simply can't solve the source of stress or it takes a lot of time before you're able to. How do I solve having cancer or any other health issue? Like most things in life, it's not something that's solvable overnight. Why not reduce the emotional/psychological suffering you feel before you can actually solve the problem? In fact, that reduction in emotional distress can help you find better solutions to whatever problems you're dealing with. I don't see any downsides unless for some reason you think meditation is supposed to be the solution to life's problems, when it's just a method for handling your inner life.

[ajb]

Coping skills are great, but there is definitely a danger of psychological professionals assuming that changes are not possible and they should just train people to cope. I've literally had a psychologist apologise for spending several months doing that to me, because he didn't realize that I had the resources, and let's be blunt - money - to make greater changes to my life than he expected.

[NoZebra120vClip]

You're partially correct in that it does not focus on the source of stress. Rather, it focuses on the Source of peace.

As a Christian, my contemplative practice is focused on the source of truth and life, Christ Jesus. There will still be suffering in this life, but it will pass away, and Christ will remain, our Source of peace and comfort.

My contemplative practice helps me prepare for that day by peeling away all the distractions and false trappings of everyday life, and discovering what is truly important. It is a journey of discovery, a journey of finding Jesus, and thereby finding my identity as a child of God.

[zuzuleinen]

I'm curios how much time per day do you dedicate to your contemplative practice?

[wodenokoto]

Maybe the underlying issue is commonly that one worry about things out of ones control.

I don't think anybody is advocating mindfulness as a response to an abusive spouse, but more of a "here's a tool to help you let go of work when you leave the office"

Especially among the HN crowd, I imagine I am not the only one thinking about how to move forward with a project or what I should say in tomorrows stand-up meeting.

There is no core issue to deal with. I can figure both out when I arrive at work tomorrow.

[FrustratedMonky]

>" Instead of focusing on the source of stress and trying to solve the underlying issues, it fights the symptoms."

This isn't bad. One can take medicine to reduce a fever to help the body heal.

Nobody says "but reducing the fever is worthless, that is just treating a symptom".

[Frummy]

I agree. Sometimes mindfulness may reveal lies to oneself however, sometimes I have been tied to an identity which in itself keeps me tied to a system which oppresses me. Relieving myself of the identity allows me to leave the system which does not serve me.

[SoKamil]

And stress is subjective and often temporary. The less we have it in our lives, the better. We can put that recovered energy in solving problems.

[molly0]

You only hear about folks praising mindfulness, this is an interesting observation.

[CrzyLngPwd]

You might like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/McMindfulness-Ronald-Purser/dp/1912...

[yadingus]

The real source of stress is the mind.